Not looking good, is it...?

[Cocosilk]

I had a bit of a shock this afternoon. I've been eating low carb for over a year, with the odd cheat days.

Last cheat day was around Christmas / New Year when some friends rocked up with pizzas and I did a bit of a weird reading of 7.7mmol only at 1h but then 9.4 mmol at 1.5h, but it went back to 4.7 by 2 hours.

Well, today I took a chance with about 70g (4 slices of baguette - not a large loaf but that thin French breadstick), and I had it with ham, avocado and a glass of goat's milk. Oh, how I enjoyed it after so long of hardly touching grains.

But, then the shock. (I didn't do a pre-meal reading but I hadn't eaten for hours and I'd only eaten eggs, macadamia nuts, cheese and a square of 85% dark chocolate with a cup of tea in the early part of the day.) Then at 1 hour it was 11.2 mmol, then 15 mins later it was 11.5 mmol... from that little bit of bread... but then the bigger shock - at 2 hours, I was still 10.4 mmol!

My last glucose tolerance test a few months ago I spiked to 12.1 at 1 hour but had recovered to 6.5 mmol by 2 hours so this is the first time I've still been so high around the 2 hour mark apart from when I was pregnant with gestational diabetes...

By 2h 20 I was 8.4 mmol and 2h 30 was 7.9 mmol.

I'm wondering if the sleep deprivation (3 little kids including one baby) is contributing if I have been eating mostly low carb for a while.

Is this T2 already or could it still be pre-diabetes? I doubt I had more than 50g of carbs when 70g of bread has no more than 50g carbs / 100g, and the ham, milk and avocado would have a few carbs but not that many.

I've tested again now a couple of hours later and I'm back to 4.9 mmol thankfully.

 

[Member496333]

As has been said before, keep poking the dog and it's going to bite back. Bread raises blood glucose more than table sugar. This is an inescapable fact.

That said, if you are normally low-carbing but then add in the odd "treat", then you are likely to see glucose sparing insulin resistance, which is not the same thing as pathological, and would be temporary. You could continue with the carbs and see if your glucose response settles, but personally I think that's the road to perdition for anyone with a metabolic question mark hanging over their head.

 

[Bluetit1802]

It could simply be the last meal effect. After very low carbing for a while the pancreas falls asleep as it doesn't need to produce much insulin. A sudden blast of carbs will take it by surprise. This is why we should eat at least 130g carbs a day for about 3 days before an oral glucose tolerance test.

 

[Diakat]

So many factors in there you can’t make a judgement
1. Previous low carving
2. No pre meal value
3. Sleep deprived
.4. High fat alongside high carb with fats earlier in the day

 

[DCUKMod]

To be honest, @Cocosilk - as others have said, s of many factors potentially in play. Aside from all else, I'd think you might have had a big adrenaline rush when you saw those 11s.

 

[Cocosilk]

To be honest, @Cocosilk - as others have said, s of many factors potentially in play. Aside from all else, I'd think you might have had a big adrenaline rush when you saw those 11s.

I was pretty stressed out. That probably keeps your numbers elevated too, doesn't it?

Does that mean though, that if you are under chronic stress your metabolism suffers and you could become diabetic from that even if you aren't eating many carbs anymore? I know I'm under a bit of stress from the sleep deprivation and just parenting 3 small kids in general is fairly testing at times, isn't it? It certainly gives you grey hairs anyway...

 

[Cocosilk]

As has been said before, keep poking the dog and it's going to bite back. Bread raises blood glucose more than table sugar. This is an inescapable fact.

That said, if you are normally low-carbing but then add in the odd "treat", then you are likely to see glucose sparing insulin resistance, which is not the same thing as pathological, and would be temporary. You could continue with the carbs and see if your glucose response settles, but personally I think that's the road to perdition for anyone with a metabolic question mark hanging over their head.

I seem to have a pretty short memory, don't I? Ha ha.. I was just looking back at my last few posts to remind myself when I was toying around with extra carbs the last times. It's not getting any better. I think one of the last times I tried I saw 11 mmol at the one hour and 8mmol by 2 hours. I wonder if stress alone would keep it in the 10s at the 2 hour mark. I did get nervous when I saw the 11 mmol so maybe I freaked out and made it stay elevated longer. Either way, I know I can't eat bread anymore. It really doesn't agree with me when such a small amount puts me up there... Prior to having a blood sugar issue, I could easily have eaten double the amount I did today. Luckily we can still have fatty meats to satisfy us. Except if I listen to my doctor who wants me on statins... Lol She won't want me eating fatty meats either. I'll only be left with vegetables...

 

[HSSS]

I did do this poking the dog a few times over the first few months after I gave birth. I was hoping it was just glucose sparing insulin resistance then


I was pretty stressed out. That probably keeps your numbers elevated too, doesn't it?

Does that mean though, that if you are under chronic stress your metabolism suffers and you could become diabetic from that even if you aren't eating many carbs anymore? I know I'm under a bit of stress from the sleep deprivation and just parenting 3 small kids in general is fairly testing at times, isn't it? It certainly gives you grey hairs anyway...

Chronic long term stress is definitely a factor. I’m convinced it has contributed to my condition.

 

[Cocosilk]

As has been said before, keep poking the dog and it's going to bite back. Bread raises blood glucose more than table sugar. This is an inescapable fact.

That said, if you are normally low-carbing but then add in the odd "treat", then you are likely to see glucose sparing insulin resistance, which is not the same thing as pathological, and would be temporary. You could continue with the carbs and see if your glucose response settles, but personally I think that's the road to perdition for anyone with a metabolic question mark hanging over their head.

Jim, have you found any articles or anecdotes of people that have actual glucose sparing insulin resistance rather than a pathological blood sugar issue and what their blood sugar numbers look like after a glucose tolerance test or just home testing after eating a certain amount of carbs?

I think I am wishful that that is the problem I am having at the moment because considering the gestational diabetes I had, I imagine I do have some underlying metabolic derangement and probably have had for a while. If I'd just been doing keto to lose weight and didn't have any previous blood sugar issues, then maybe it would just be a temporary thing. I'm just not sure I'm that lucky... Not to mention that I don't think I've been in ketosis for the majority of the time because I was always eating a small amount of carbs on most days. I'd go keto/carnivore for a few days at a time but carbs would always creep back in because I was breastfeeding and just wasn't sure it was right to be zero carbing.

Does it seem smart to try and eat a larger amount of carbs for 4 or 5 days (to get past the first 3 days) if I am seeing 10s, 11s and 12 mmol at the one hour and 8s, 9s and 10s at the 2 hour mark? Would it really suddenly be fine by day 4? I'm trying to find someone else who has recorded their numbers and realised it was glucose sparing insulin resistance and not diabetes. I feel like I'm on a moving low carb train that is kind of hard to get off because you know you have to skin your knees when you land, and you may find that you just end up breaking your leg too.

 

[Indy51]

I'm sure I've posted this several times before over the years, but here it is again.

Carbing up for OGTTs

From Dr Michael R Eades

Following a low-carb diet makes one a little glucose intolerant, which is the reason that the instructions for a glucose tolerance test always include the admonition to eat plenty of carbs in the week before the test. Why? Because all the macronutrients–glucose, fat and protein–are broken down by enzymes during the metabolic process. And all the enzymes necessary for the metabolism of the various macronutrients are made on demand but not immediately.

If you are on a high carbohydrate diet, then you will have plenty of enzymes on hand to deal with the carbohydrates you consume. If you switch to a low-carbohydrate diet, it takes a while to manufacture the enzymes in the quantities needed to deal with the extra fat and protein that your metabolic system hadn't been exposed to. This deficiency of protein/fat metabolizing enzymes is the reason people starting a low-carb diet become so easily fatigued–they've got plenty of enzymes on hand to break down carbs, they just don't have the carbs to metabolize. Once they produce the enzymes necessary to deal with the load of protein and fat, which takes a few days, they become low-carb adapted and no longer feel fatigued.

Once people become low-carb adapted then the same thing happens if they go face down in the donuts. They don't have the enzymes on board to deal with the sudden influx of glucose, and, as a consequence, their blood sugar spikes higher than it would on a person eating the same amount of carbohydrate who is already carb adapted.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Cocosilk

I experienced physiological insulin resistance once. (Glucose sparing) Or at least that is what I thought it was. I was very low carb when out of the blue my base line numbers increased for no apparent or obvious reason. When I say baseline, I mean my morning fasting, before lunch, before evening meal and before bed. This obviously impacted on my post meal levels - BUT the actual rise from before to after eating did not change. This continued for a few weeks, then all went back to normal, for no obvious apparent reason.

I still think you experienced the situation described in @Indy51 's post above, rather than glucose sparing. Glucose sparing, as I understand it, it when the body believes there is insufficient glucose circulating to feed the brain. This wouldn't be the case after eating a lot of extra carbs.

 

[Oldvatr]

I seem to have a pretty short memory, don't I? Ha ha.. I was just looking back at my last few posts to remind myself when I was toying around with extra carbs the last times. It's not getting any better. I think one of the last times I tried I saw 11 mmol at the one hour and 8mmol by 2 hours. I wonder if stress alone would keep it in the 10s at the 2 hour mark. I did get nervous when I saw the 11 mmol so maybe I freaked out and made it stay elevated longer. Either way, I know I can't eat bread anymore. It really doesn't agree with me when such a small amount puts me up there... Prior to having a blood sugar issue, I could easily have eaten double the amount I did today. Luckily we can still have fatty meats to satisfy us. Except if I listen to my doctor who wants me on statins... Lol She won't want me eating fatty meats either. I'll only be left with vegetables...

A tip that i am using which seems to have an effect on my bgl. I freeze my bread and then wake it up when required by toasting it or frying it in butter, I limit to 2 slices a day, but my sugars generally remain reasonable but not perfectiment as it were. You can do the same with potato and other starchy foods, but rice is problematic and should not be reheated once cooked, I believe. Google resistant starch for research.

Also it seems to depend on time of day. I find I can eat more carby things with impunity in the evenings but a afternoon snack has greater peril for my sugars that I would expect.