Indecision over Atorvastatin

[Oldvatr]

This study report is also of interest

Evaluating the Association Between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Reduction and Relative and Absolute Effects of Statin Treatment: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - PubMed

The results of this meta-analysis suggest that the absolute risk reductions of treatment with statins in terms of all-cause mortality, myocardial infarction, and stroke are modest compared with the relative risk reductions, and the presence of significant heterogeneity reduces the certainty of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Note that the JAMA study referred to has suppressed the author details and has no conflict of interests or identification of funding in their published report on JAMA.

 

[Grandadfatboy]

I was prescribed simvastatin when I was diagnosed with type 2 back in September 2006. As I recall I never had any issues whilst I was prescribed it.

When I was in Kings in 2019, having my Auto SCT, they stopped my simvastatin, my hypertension medication, and one other than I can't recall just now. I remained free of these drugs for some considerable time, and in fact I still do not need medication for hypertension.

I was prescribed Atorvastatin after my diabetes care was transferred to the central diabetes care team following my diabetes nurse's retirement. At the time I was receiving high dose chemotherapy, and it was decided to try and get me on the trial for the Libre 2 Glucose Monitoring System, as it was felt I could/would be able to manage my diabetes that much better with constant "fluctuations" caused by the chemo.

I'm happy to report that I have not been re-prescribed hypertension medication, and I've not had any "side effects" from the Atorvastatin. However, I am currently receiving maintenance chemotherapy having returned to remission last September from multiple myeloma, so can't say that I've noticed any side effects from the Atorvastatin.

3 of the chemotherapy drugs I take are known to affect BG levels. One in particular, Dexamethasone, has a very dramatic affect of my BG levels. If I don't at least double my intake of insulin with my 2 main meals on the day I take this medication, my BG hits the mid 30's. I also have to double my insulin with my breakfast the following day.

For me, I've learnt how to adjust my insulin levels based on the medications I take and by trying my very best to be as accurate with the carb content of meals.

When I was first diagnosed my BG levels were between 7.0 - 9.5. What I'd give for that to be the case today. Anything below 13.0 is a win win for me these days. I would like to tighten up on those figures, but my diabetes team are concerned that it could result in hypos, so for now I'm happy to go with that.

My apologies for the long post, but maybe the information herein might be helpful to someone.

 

[pegletbee]

This may be of interest here from a respectable academic archive (Wiley)

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-2753.2011.01767.x

Thank you for this. I have resisted taking statins for years, despite regular badgering by consultants and GPS. Once again my consultant is insisting that I need to take them, but I am far from convinced that any minimal benefits will outweigh the risk of increased A1c and probable weight gain due to reduced lepton levels - both well documented - among other possible side effects. I have another appointment on the 23rd with the GP to go over this yet again. I realise that ultimately I can refuse to take them, but I could do without this constant pressure

 

[Krystyna23040]

i've been a type 1 diabetic for 35 years and have been on statins for 25 years, never had a problem and i'm as fit as a fiddle. It's a personal choice so don't go by others. Every medication has a potential side effect, even paracetamol. You have to weigh up the risks of taking the medication, against the risk of doing nothing. Some will have side effects others will experience nothing, we're all different. Eat as healthy as possible, but also don't beat yourself up if you have something naughty or a couple of pints of beer. Do some moderate daily exercise such as walking, but most important enjoy life

You are really lucky. I was on statins for 26 days and my consultant told me that the muscle damage they caused would take 4 years to recover from. It actually took longer than that.

I was diagnosed statin intolerant and was told that I must never go back on them. When I said to the Consultant 'does that mean I will die early because I can't go back on them'. He said no - statins probably only prolong your life by four days at the most.

 

[Russell52]

I have been offered these before when prediabetic and decided against them because of their known risk of increasing BG levels. I made reducing BG the priority. 7 years on and now diagnosed with Type 2 and again statins being recommended. Do I wait to get BG under control again (now on Metformin) before taking. My BG levels have been dropping really well over the last month and I don’t want to undo this progress.

I have always been rather sceptical about statins as know the jury is out on their long term impact. There were questions as to whether it is linked to causing dementia but then just as many articles show high cholesterol and BG are more of a dementia risk. I’m so conflicted. My mother had Alzheimer’s and later got a diagnosis of diabetes (years after Alzheimer’s was first diagnosed). She was on Statins well before that for a good 15 years before her Alzheimer’s. Looking back at her health and symptoms I truly believe she was diabetic sooner. She often complained of itchy skin, thirst but was told she wasn’t.

I’m really unsure. One minute I think I’m better to take them, the next I’m unsure. Any one else been in a similar situation?

I have used statins for 17 years about the same time as diagnosed with type 2. All BG levels still at more than acceptable levels. Cholesterol perfect no side effects. Good luck!

 

[Oldvatr]

As has been pointed out, recent studies regarding statins have in general identified the following trends
1) statins do not benefit women
2) statins do reduce LDL but the question being asked now is that low LDL does not seem to actually reduce CVE or MI in real life. Some studies infer the opposite especially in the elderly.
3) The only group for which statin is recommended is men who have already had at least one CVE event (i.e. who already have pre existing damage)

The idea of handing out sweeties as prophylactics is not proven IMO. The handing out of the same sweeties in case they may prevent dementia is also not proven, even in the case of vascular dementia. They are not miracle cures or general purpose pick me ups. Their long term use is not known. It has taken over 100 years of Metformin use to find some of its drawbacks (it was a herbal remedy in the Middle ages called Goats Rue). We are beginning to see a similar phenomenon with drugs like the Gliflozins and the Gliptins (Jardiance / Ozempic per se).

 

[Eilnan]

@Sally66 Have a look at a product called berberine on the British supplements website.
There are lots of reviews that say this product works better than Metformin. I’ve also been listening to a man called Dr Sten Ekberg and Ivor Cummins about cholesterol

 

[Oldvatr]

@Sally66 Have a look at a product called berberine on the British supplements website.
There are lots of reviews that say this product works better than Metformin. I’ve also been listening to a man called Dr Sten Ekberg and Ivor Cummins about cholesterol

Here is a small study on Berberine

Efficacy of Berberine in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes

Berberine has been shown to regulate glucose and lipid metabolism in vitro and in vivo. This pilot study was to determine the efficacy and safety of berberine in the treatment of type 2 diabetic patients. In study A, 36 adults with newly diagnosed type ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I note that several participants were withdrawn from the trial because the treatment did not work, which is a strange declaration. surely if there is lack of efficay then this is also significant and should be included in the analysis.

What I have also found out is that this supplement is generally considered safe, but should not be used during pregnancy. It should also not be used in combination with anti clotting medications and anti platelet meds such as Warfarin , aspirin, and clopidogrel. It is also contraindicated with some sedatives. It can lead to bradycardia which is a slow heartbeat. It also commonly causes gastric distress like other well known diabetes meds. Can give headaches.