The food of life, or, Brother, Can You Spare a Pancreas?

[touchett]

This is a response to an older thread, originally posted by Bubblezzz, titled "My old life is over " on June 9 2012, but also addresses pervasive attitudes among diabetics about carbohydrates, food, and eating in general.

What I see in a lot of diabetes forums, is an almost holier-than-thou attitude towards carbohydrates. Something along the lines of "all carbohydrate-based foodstuffs are made of refined flours; desserts are made of cheap high-fructose corn syrup, or that pasta and bread are just bland "****" anyway, so you shouldn't miss them. But I think the issue is more complex than that, and I don't believe many of us were necessarily eating poorly.

Prior to diagnosis, I did not indulge in what a person might consider junk food--never tasted a Pop Tart, Doritos, crisps, or white bread from the supermarket. The kinds of foods I miss are painstakingly kneaded buttery pâte feuilletée (puff pastry) from a patisserie, the basis for beautiful food like goat-cheese and caramelized onion tarts, and banana pain au chocolat. I have no idea what a curly wurly tastes like, but I will always long for the artisanal chocolates made by SOMA in Toronto (particularly their Costa Rican chocolate bars with flecks of Maldon salt, and their rich Mayan hot chocolate). I enjoyed artisanal baguettes and rosemary ciabatta loaves from small local bakeries. I don't believe that rice-based dishes like authentic seafood Spanish paella, mushroom risotto topped with pancetta and Grana Padano, or fresh handmade pasta from Mantua stuffed with roasted pumpkin and tomatoes grown on premises, and cooked with wine from the vineyard next door constitutes "****".

Unfortunately, the pancreas isn't so discriminating. And a starch is just a starch to a gland, so that a risotto may as well be a bag of crisps.

The user carraway was kind enough to quote a diabetic child's poem about "sugar being pathetic". I am sorry, but I don't entirely agree with this sentiment. Sugar is harmful to a diabetic, but I honestly cannot convince myself that when I visited Laduree that I thought the colourful arrangement of sugary macarons weren't beautiful, nor can I stop marvelling at the craftsmanship that goes into handmade sourdough bread at Poilâne.

I don't know if the stance that many diabetics take that "carbs are evil" is an act of self-preservation, or a sincere article of faith, but for me, the problem is simply that my pancreas is broken.

I have a metabolic disorder. No amount of execrating the agricultural industry, or indignation towards a loaf of sourdough bread will fix that.

As a postscript, I never appreciated how diabetic unfriendly the world was (and how strong diabetics are), until I walked through a department store today. Between the canteen with its delectable stacks of cheese panini, the window displays of pastel-coloured Easter Godiva confections, the aroma of bubbling soup, the hundreds of people happily enjoying their lunches--curries and Chinese food heaped on noodles and rice--and children on school holidays eating ice cream sundaes and popcorn, without a care in the world, I truly felt like a broken person. Detached from the rest of humanity.

I was reminded of a conversation from the film The Thin Red Line, when Jim Caviezel's character asks Sean Penn "Do you ever feel lonely?", and Penn answers, "Only around people".

 

[peacetrain]

"Unfortunately, the pancreas isn't so discriminating. And a starch is just a starch to a gland, so that a risotto may as well be a bag of crisps."

I've recently been diagnosed T2 and came to this site hoping to learn how best to manage my bg. I've read quite a lot of people's opinions and the main message I've come away with is that we are all different and different bodies react to foods differently. all we can do is experiment and find the right path for our own well being. I don't remember reading any threads with 'holier than thou' attitudes, rather personal viewpoints about the effects of carbs. the debates here seem, imho, to be conducted with a good amount of respect and well thought out argument.

It's late and I'm tired after a hard week at work so perhaps I'm missing your point/misunderstanding your main thrust but I detect a note of negativity regarding this site's forum. I'm sorry you feel that way, but you're entitled to your opinion, the same as everyone else. Anyway, I agree ... a carb's a carb, however it's dressed up.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your tone

 

[touchett]

No apologies necessary, and I apologise if came across as antagonistic or negative towards the forum.

Just a rambling, thinking out loud kind of post from me.

Mostly, I get the impression that many diabetics cope with cutting out carbohydrates from their diets by telling themselves that all carbs are "junk"--from Mars bars to store bought pasta. All carbs are created equal to a pancreas, but not all of us were indulging in junk food. The carbs that I'll miss are local goods like artisanal ciabatta, salted caramel tarts from my favourite patisserie, homemade mushroom risotto, and good quality chocolates.

For me, it's utterly disingenuous to say that ALL the carbohydrate-rich foods that diabetics must give up, nolens volens, were "junk"--a packet of factory-produced crisps and frozen TV dinners may legitimately count as junk food, but chicken pot pies made from scratch with homemade stock, and linzer cookies, while laden with carbohydrates, are not what I would consider junk.

My pancreas can't tell the difference, but I can. It's the lovely homemade food that I'm going to miss. The quality breads, and beautifully crafted desserts made under the supervision of masterful French pastry chefs like Nadege Nourian. Cooking and eating formed such an important part of my life. I have so few vices--I don't drink, or smoke. Food was one of the few pleasures I had in life, and if I'm honest with myself, while I haven't so much as touched a starch since my diagnosis in January, I would be LYING if I said every moment hasn't been miserable, or a constant tussle to choose foods for my health.

 

[Scandichic]

No apologies necessary, and I apologise if came across as antagonistic or negative towards the forum.

Just a rambling, thinking out loud kind of post from me.

Mostly, I get the impression that many diabetics cope with cutting out carbohydrates from their diets by telling themselves that all carbs are "junk"--from Mars bars to store bought pasta. All carbs are created equal to a pancreas, but not all of us were indulging in junk food. The reality is, I've hardly ever touched store-bought chocolates or prepared foods. The carbs that I'll miss are from local goods like artisanal ciabatta, salted caramel tarts from my favourite patisserie, mushroom risotto, and high quality chocolate sourced from Costa Rica.

For me, it's utterly disingenuous to say that ALL the carbohydrate-rich foods that diabetics must give up, nolens volens, were "junk"--a packet of factory-produced crisps and frozen TV dinners legitimately count as junk food, but the chicken pot pies I made from scratch with homemade stock, and the linzer cookies I traditionally bake for Christmas, while laden with carbohydrates, are not the same, qualitatively, as a bag of Walker's crisps.

My pancreas can't tell the difference, but I can. I can happily forego junk food for the rest of my days. It's the lovely homemade food that I'm going to miss. The quality breads, and beautifully crafted desserts made under the supervision of masterful French pastry chefs like Nadege Nourian. Cooking and eating formed such an important part of my life. I have so few vices--I don't drink, or smoke. Food was one of the few pleasures I had in life, and if I'm honest with myself, while I haven't so much as touched a starch since my diagnosis in January, I would be LYING if I said every moment hasn't been miserable, or a constant tussle to choose foods for my health.

I understand where you are coming from! There are certain things that I miss cooking - gorgeous fish soup (potatoes in base) risotto, a plethora of desserts, fish pie, pancakes, pasta dishes and buying - bread! I also love good quality bread! I guess it depends on which advice you want to follow as according tour NHS no food is banned! Although in my opinion, it's not a good idea so I limit my carbs. I now do not eat the things I have mentioned. I love good wine but only have a glass if we go out. We have young children so you can imagine how often this is! I cannot bring myself to buy a bottle and only drink one glass. My husband prefers red so it would be really wasteful! I probably have a square or two of good quality chocolate once a week. I have half a slice of cake on birthdays. I don't smoke either! I am obese so I really want to lose the weight! My frustration has been that I have plateaued and stayed the same weight for 3 weeks now which even my husband says is really unfair. I suffer from water retention and my doc is useless.

 

[pavlosn]

Dear Touchett

I would not mind your post if I did not detect an elitist, snobbish undertone to it.

What you are basically saying to all that were kind enough to offer help and advise to you is that it is ok for them giving up or restricting carb intake because they were eating **** anyway, while it is a real sacrifice for you because you are a food connoisseur who only ever had the finest food with fancy French names and no doubt price tags to match.

What a pile of dog's excrement!

A hand rolled Havana cigar, lovingly rolled on the thighs of the last remaining Cuban virgins, may be some people's idea of the finest life can offer. It is probably as far removed in terms of price, image and probably taste ( I am a non smoker so I would not know) from a cheap roll up-your-own cigarette, as you can get. But you know what? To me they are both ****! They are both just as harmful.

Get the analogy?

We are not the ones making a value judgement about carbs, qualitative or otherwise.

We are being realistic. We are diabetic and know that we need to control our carb intake in order to better manage our condition.

End of story! We accept it adapt and get on with our lives.

It does not mean that we do not miss what we may have had to give up, even if that for some of us may be some humble French fries rather than your fine hand crafted pommes frittes with a sprinkling of oregano from Guatemala or whatever.

You can wallow in self pity as much as you like. Stare enviously at kids enjoying their ice cream even.Slightly pathetic if you do not mind me saying but probably harmless enough.

What you can not do is come here and disrespect the very people that have tried to help you.

Grow up!

Pavlos






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[Scandichic]

Have woken up, can't sleep, worried about work and stupid hospital appointment. Just moved and screen froze on ipad!
The upside of this rotten condition is that I have conversed with people I never would have met, found lots of new recipes which taste great and laughed out loud at some of the jokes on this forum. I thank my lucky stars that I speak Swedish, as I have found some truly great recipes on LCHF recepter and that some kind soul pointed me I the way of LCHF - I knew that the advice given by Uk diabetes - the .org one was wrong but hadn't found an alternative. There are days when I feel rubbish but generally going out for a walk, listening to music or cuddling my children makes me feel a whole lot better!

 

[touchett]

Dear Touchett

I would not mind your post if I did not detect an elitist, snobbish undertone to it.

What you are basically saying to all that were kind enough to offer help and advise to you is that it is ok for them giving up or restricting carb intake because they were eating **** anyway, while it is a real sacrifice for you because you are a food connoisseur who only ever had the finest food with fancy French names and no doubt price tags to match.

What a pile of dog's excrement!

A hand rolled Havana cigar, lovingly rolled on the thighs of the last remaining Cuban virgins, may be some people's idea of the finest life can offer. It is probably as far removed in terms of price, image and probably taste ( I am a non smoker so I would not know) from a cheap roll up-your-own cigarette, as you can get. But you know what? To me they are both ****! They are both just as harmful.

Get the analogy?

We are not the ones making a value judgement about carbs, qualitative or otherwise.

We are being realistic. We are diabetic and know that we need to control our carb intake in order to better manage our condition.

End of story! We accept it adapt and get on with our lives.

It does not mean that we do not miss what we may have had to give up, even if that for some of us may be some humble French fries rather than your fine hand crafted pommes frittes with a sprinkling of oregano from Guatemala or whatever.

You can wallow in self pity as much as you like. Stare enviously at kids enjoying their ice cream even.Slightly pathetic if you do not mind me saying but probably harmless enough.

What you can not do is come here and disrespect the very people that have tried to help you.

Grow up!

Pavlos

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Good morning, Pavlos.

"What you can not do is come here and disrespect the very people that have tried to help you."

First, that wasn't at all the intention of this post, though I've obviously offended you, so for that I apologise. Nothing I've written here is directed at the people who were kind enough to reply to my first posts here--I certainly wasn't raised to requite humanity and compassion with spite. I am saddened you've misread it that way.

I don't pretend to be a food connoisseur of any kind, I've never even dined at a Michelin star restaurant. I cooked rather than bought the majority of my meals (dishes that would be considered peasant French fare, seasoned with regular herbs, your cutting remark about Guatemalan oregano duly noted), and I certainly don't begrudge anyone enjoying their crisps! What I'm responding to are posts that I'm reading in various diabetic forums, where users will pronounce that "all carbs are **** anyway, good riddance to not eating junk you won't miss "--I'm merely saying that this statement isn't entirely true. I'm sure many of us have fond memories of cooking a humble dish of meat and potatoes with our mothers--these are the dishes that I don't think qualify as junk, but wonderful homemade meals like Scandichic's fish pies and pancakes.

I could get into a conversation here about how long it took Darwin's finches took to adapt to their environment and grow beaks, but my point is, some species adapt better than others. I concede that I'm not as courageous as many of the members here. And I don't deny it.

I don't believe I was staring in envy at the crowds of people enjoying their food. Only wistful that I'm not one of their number anymore, which I am allowed, whether anyone approves of it or not.

 

[pavlosn]

Dear Jarrett

Apology accepted.

Perhaps I misunderstood or over reacted to your post.

I am not sure that anyone on here is saying that all food high in carbs is fast food rubbish. That would be an extremely naive thing to claim and would be to deny the undisputed culinary worth of some of the finest food in the world, Italian pasta for instance, or fruit or deserts.

Nor has food like that suddenly disappeared from the world or our homes even just because we are diabetic. In the majority of our cases what is required is a measure of restraint or moderation not complete abstinence.

I have had some marvelous home cooking and have dined in some very fine restaurants both before and after diagnosis.

But not all good food is high in carbs. Some very fine dishes are either naturally low carb or can be easily adapted to be so.

Yes some food is not the same if you try to reduce the carbs content but that is not true of all food. I have been known to ask chefs to adapt a recipe to make it lower carb and have usually been amazed with what they come up with.

As you say that you enjoy cooking that should be a challenge that you should embrace.

Take care

Pavlos




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[Scandichic]

I don't have much faith in the Canadian Diabetes Association's advice either, Scandichchic. I guess it's a common enough feeling among people that are trying to aim for good control--it just seems like these organizations established to help us, don't have the foggiest idea what it's like to be diabetic, or seem so bent on appeasing and/or not freaking out the newly diagnosed, that they give middle of the road advice. I.e. you can eat toast at breakfast, with rice at lunch, and a potato at supper. From what I gather, that is a one-way ticket to being on insulin, within a few short years--insulin strips and pumps are covered by health care for seniors and type 1s in Canada, not so for type 2. I'd rather save whatever beta cell function I have left. I'm a humanities student, and hopeless at maths, but logically, if an HbA1c of 4-5% is considered normal, and anything much higher is glucotoxicity, why would the target A1c for diabetics be 6.5 - 7%? It's like sending a person out on an errand in acid rain with a bumbershoot as their only defense, saying that it's only drizzling and not pouring acid.

I have to say a disheartening thing about diabetes, is that you have more faith in yourself than your doctor, which is unsettling and scary. I don't want to rely on me for anything as important as my health

I suppose the thing about diabetes is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't! Initially, I thought that the whole thing was due to my hedonistic life style and lack of exercise but then the more I've read , the more I've come to the conclusion that in my case it's probably poor life style choices and rubbish genes combined! Although 80% of diabetic t2 are obese, 80% of obese people are not diabetic. But then I was 5 stone overweight and obese is 2 stone overweight so who knows? I am lothe to voice this opinion outside of this forum as I have been repeatedly told by others that I've brought this upon myself. Will probably get told I'm delusional! I have already been described as left of field and idiosyncratic. Am really stressed about my lovely but lazy year 11 kids who still have outstanding coursework, don't attend any after school sessions and my hospital appointment because I am being difficult by refusing to stuff my face with carbs. The joys of being a grown up! What I really want to do is stay in bed, do no work, win the lottery eat peanut butter on toast with a strong cup of coffee and magic away the diabetes but I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and carry on! What diet do you follow?

 

[pavlosn]

By the way, portion size usually dished out in most fine dining restaurants is such ( you know, huge white plate with a mere morsel of a hard to identify but delicious tasting something in the middle), that the last thing fine diners need to worry about is rising glucose levels

Pavlos


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[pavlosn]

Been to Italy three times, amazing country and incredible food.

I have even been to a three Michelin star restaurant in Rome! The wife and I still joke about the look on our face when they presented us with a Water list for us to select the water we would be having. They had bottled water at 150 euro a bottle! I was curious but not that curious !

As for the wine list that was the size of the Encyclopedia Britanica!

But you do not to go to a fine restaurant to find great food in Italy and it is not as Diabetes unfriendly as you might think

Seriously you should go. Great country, great people and great food.

Lake Garda and Lake Como in the north offer great views and are two of our favorite destinations.

Not much needs to be said about Rome with all the art and history.

Still have not been to Venice or Florence.

Hopefully soon.

Pavlos


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[CollieBoy]

Touchette,
You seem to be au fait with theartisanal end of foodstuffs, so analyze, adapt, improve! Where you cannot devise a carb friendly food, then it may become an occasional treat!

 

[touchett]

I suppose the thing about diabetes is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't! Initially, I thought that the whole thing was due to my hedonistic life style and lack of exercise but then the more I've read , the more I've come to the conclusion that in my case it's probably poor life style choices and rubbish genes combined! Although 80% of diabetic t2 are obese, 80% of obese people are not diabetic. But then I was 5 stone overweight and obese is 2 stone overweight so who knows? I am lothe to voice this opinion outside of this forum as I have been repeatedly told by others that I've brought this upon myself. Will probably get told I'm delusional! I have already been described as left of field and idiosyncratic. Am really stressed about my lovely but lazy year 11 kids who still have outstanding coursework, don't attend any after school sessions and my hospital appointment because I am being difficult by refusing to stuff my face with carbs. The joys of being a grown up! What I really want to do is stay in bed, do no work, win the lottery eat peanut butter on toast with a strong cup of coffee and magic away the diabetes but I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and carry on! What diet do you follow?

I think I'm managing it poorly, in so much as my strategy consists of not eating very much. These days I drink a glass of unsweetened almond milk (1 gram of carb per cup) for breakfast, with a sliver of whole grain bread (you know those whole grain slices that are 14 grams of carbs per slice? I've been cutting them into fourths or fifths, so it takes me almost a week to eat a slice of bread), spread with a teaspoon of unsweetened peanut butter.

Lunch is usually an egg, with either leftover chicken breast, or 2 strips of bacon once a week, and lettuce.

Dinner is typically a chicken breast, and if I'm feeling adventurous, half a cup of roasted carrots. I'm told that carrots when cooked, are a disaster, but I can only take so much more of lettuce before I go mad and join the feral rabbits at Watership Down.

I think I lost the genetic lottery too, Scandichic. My mum and dad are in their mid-sixties and don't have it--knock on wood--but an uncle on my mum's side has it, and my paternal grandparents. I'm a home cook like you, and ate out perhaps once a month. I already gave up staples like white rice and bread years ago, and walk my dog everyday. So what happened?

What do you typically eat these days? Any ideas how I can adapt this recipe for Dorie Greenspan's chicken basquaise: http://individual.utoronto.ca/montag/food/chickenbasquaise.html (from my now defunct food blog, and yes I took the pictures. Sometimes, I'm convinced I took up cooking, just as a pretext to take photos of my meals....)

I'm dreading my appointment with a diabetic clinic in April. I fear the endocrinologist and dietician are just going to repeat the same advice as the CDA, and that it's not going to allow me to expand my food options much. My fasting glucose went down from 8.6mmol in January 27, to 3.7mmol on February 20 (I'm told, this number is on the low side). My HbA1c is down from 7.7% to 6.4%, which took about six weeks.

 

[Karbstruck]

Hi touchett,
I must say that my mouth was watering when I read your descriptions of the delicious dishes that you miss. I too love fine foods and can feel somewhat wistful that I can't indulge in so many culinary delights.

The way I deal with it is to think of all the wonderful meals I have had in the past and feel glad that I have certainly had my fair share over my 67 years. Maybe you being younger might make a lot of difference though.

Whenever I feel the injustice of not being able to eat what I like, I remind myself of how much healthier I feel since reducing my blood sugars and losing 10kg in weight, though I still have a way to go. I know that I couldn't have continued the way I was, without becoming very ill, so I see my changes in diet and exercise as a positive plan of action. I just hope that I can stick to them for the long haul.....with maybe an occasional indulgence.

Today I attended a diabetes course with a dietician, who said that we needed to have a small portion of carbs with each meal, as carbs were necessary for brain function and that we might be less mentally alert without them, so you can see that here in Australia they follow the same guidelines. I tactfully remained silent when she said this, as I didn't see any point, for the group, if I disagreed. This session was followed by a trip to the local supermarket to learn to read labels, but the emphasis was on looking for reduced fat, sugar and salt. She didn't even mention carbs.

Although I don't slavishly count carbs, I have eliminated sugar and grain products from my diet. As I have only been diagnosed with type 2 for 3 months, I have not yet experimented with more adventurous meals, but I see this as a future challenge.

So, when faced with all the delights we can't have, lets think about how much healthier we are and that if we put some thought into being creative with our cooking, we may be able to produce at least some delectable dishes.

 

[pavlosn]

Dear Jarrett

You are still bloody terrified of this thing!

I know diabetes brings with it the possibility of some serious complications but this is not a certainty just a possibility.

What you describe sounds to me like the treatment given to diabetics in the dark ages: you are basically starving yourself!

You are trying to eat low cal, low carb, low fat , low everything.

It can not be done. Not long term and not if you want to stay healthy or sane!

Well done on your hbA1c improvement but you have gone too far!

Fasting glucose Readings of 3.7mmol/l are definitely hypoglycemic. You can harm yourself from too low a level as well as from too high you know.

Also extreme low cal diets have the effect of putting your metabolism in starvation mode so it is hard to lose far and/or body weight.

If I was eating like you and running at 3,7mmol/l I would be tempted to eat the kids themselves not just be looking at their ice cream.

Don't let yourself come to harm in your effort to stay healthy!

Cut yourself some slack!

Don't let fear of dying stop you from living.

Pavlos


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[touchett]

Hi touchett,
I must say that my mouth was watering when I read your descriptions of the delicious dishes that you miss. I too love fine foods and can feel somewhat wistful that I can't indulge in so many culinary delights.

The way I deal with it is to think of all the wonderful meals I have had in the past and feel glad that I have certainly had my fair share over my 67 years. Maybe you being younger might make a lot of difference though.

Whenever I feel the injustice of not being able to eat what I like, I remind myself of how much healthier I feel since reducing my blood sugars and losing 10kg in weight, though I still have a way to go. I know that I couldn't have continued the way I was, without becoming very ill, so I see my changes in diet and exercise as a positive plan of action. I just hope that I can stick to them for the long haul.....with maybe an occasional indulgence.

Today I attended a diabetes course with a dietician, who said that we needed to have a small portion of carbs with each meal, as carbs were necessary for brain function and that we might be less mentally alert without them, so you can see that here in Australia they follow the same guidelines. I tactfully remained silent when she said this, as I didn't see any point, for the group, if I disagreed. This session was followed by a trip to the local supermarket to learn to read labels, but the emphasis was on looking for reduced fat, sugar and salt. She didn't even mention carbs.

Although I don't slavishly count carbs, I have eliminated sugar and grain products from my diet. As I have only been diagnosed with type 2 for 3 months, I have not yet experimented with more adventurous meals, but I see this as a future challenge.

So, when faced with all the delights we can't have, lets think about how much healthier we are and that if we put some thought into being creative with our cooking, we may be able to produce at least some delectable dishes.

Karbstruck, I have to own, however petulant and childish as it sounds, that my age is a factor in my distress about this diagnosis. I'm 31, so not young (and I cannot even imagine the grief of a type 1 child and their parents), but not quite done with youthful excesses yet--so I do feel a little deprived. Is that hedonistic and self-indulgent? Yes, but I am still very much in the stages of trying to grapple with this illness. And it's been an ugly struggle.

You say you've eliminated sugar and grain products. May I ask how your energy levels are? I find that since restricting my carbohydrates, that I have been feeling very weak, and my mental acuity, isn't quite there. I've been having the most difficult time getting through a novel, when I used to read multiple books in a week. I realise a lot of us put little stock in the dietary advice given by official diabetic organizations, but what fuel is everyone else here using? Are you getting your carbohydrates from vegetables, proteins, or fats? I just feel so enervated, and I can barely stand up at times, without feeling dizzy.

Good luck on your meal preparations!

 

[pavlosn]

What do you typically eat these days? Any ideas how I can adapt this recipe for Dorie Greenspan's chicken basquaise: http://individual.utoronto.ca/montag/food/chickenbasquaise.html (from my now defunct food blog, and yes I took the pictures. Sometimes, I'm convinced I took up cooking, just as a pretext to take photos of my meals....)

Perhaps I am missing something but what is there to adapt in this recipe?

Other than replacing the white rice with a salad and either a slice of whole grain bread or three spoonfuls of bulgur, I would quite happily eat that and expect my levels to behave.

Pavlos

Ps great photo



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[Avocado Sevenfold]

You say you've eliminated sugar and grain products. May I ask how your energy levels are? I find that since restricting my carbohydrates, that I have been feeling very weak, and my mental acuity, isn't quite there. I've been having the most difficult time getting through a novel, when I used to read multiple books in a week. I realise a lot of us put little stock in the dietary advice given by official diabetic organizations, but what fuel is everyone else here using? Are you getting your carbohydrates from vegetables, proteins, or fats? I just feel so enervated, and I can barely stand up at times, without feeling dizzy.

Good luck on your meal preparations!

Eat some fat.

 

[phoenix]

As you can see I put your recipe into a calculator, missed out the bottom few items and of course the chicken. Serve with a big green salad and possibly a couple beautiful small waxy potatoes There are people on here that would consider that too high in carbs You certainly couldn't keep within 12g for the meal with that. There are others who think that something like this would be fine. (I'll duck out here as I have T1 )

 

[carty]

I find that a small portion of brown basmati rice doesnt affect my BGs very much and the addition of a splash of wine livens up many dishes is there a reason why wine wont help your cause ?.I dont need to lose weight so I eat lots of green veg with butter if you add that to a lovely steak or chicken breast whats not to like?
CAROL