High bloods, low carb diet, still no control

[Crystal Lady]

Poor old you. I found after many years that all diabetes scenarios are different - in my case I was advised about carbs, but found eventually that a completely fat free diet reversed my diabetes in 3 weeks. I am not familiar with your eating patterns, but it worked for me. i wish you well in your search for your answer.

I have not heard about restricting fats as everybody talks about carbs interesting as I have upped my content of fat to good ones like butter instead of spreads maybe this is also the problem - thanks for that I will investigate further.

 

[Crystal Lady]

Poor old you. I found after many years that all diabetes scenarios are different - in my case I was advised about carbs, but found eventually that a completely fat free diet reversed my diabetes in 3 weeks. I am not familiar with your eating patterns, but it worked for me. i wish you well in your search for your answer.

Thank you and I will investigate the fat side of things

 

[AndBreathe]

Poor old you. I found after many years that all diabetes scenarios are different - in my case I was advised about carbs, but found eventually that a completely fat free diet reversed my diabetes in 3 weeks, BG down from 25 to 6. I am not familiar with your eating patterns, but it worked for me. i wish you well in your search for your answer.

Derek - I am curious about your diet. Could you give an example of what you might eat and drink in an ordinary day?

I've managed to get things under control by reducing the carbs I eat, and being active, but I'm always interested in hearing how others have brought this thing to heel.

 

[Derek21]

I'm glad to share my fat free experience - I saw an article from american research that indicated that fats ingested suppressed production of enzymes that allow the blood to sense glucose levels and take action accordingly. Without those enzymes the body was effectively blinded to BG levels. Thought I'd give it a try and cut out all fats, visible and invisible. Results were startling.

I have dry wholemeal toast (with salt and pepper - don't mock!) for breakfast, two wholemeal baps with egg or salad or both for lunch and whatever the memsahib has produced for an evening meal. This is often casseroled beef, or pork with mashed potatoes and lots of steamed veg. Nothing afterwards. Bear in mind portion control and absolutely no fats. Tonight I'm told it's steamed cod with new potatoes and peas.

I can probably dig out the article and email the link to whoever might be interested

Best wishes

 

[AndBreathe]

If you can find it, you could post it here. It's good for us all to consider all the alternatives.

 

[Derek21]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14503480


This the article re fats and T2

As I originally said, all diabetes scenarios are different, but if this helps just one person.........

 

[Bluetit1802]

I'm glad to share my fat free experience - I saw an article from american research that indicated that fats ingested suppressed production of enzymes that allow the blood to sense glucose levels and take action accordingly. Without those enzymes the body was effectively blinded to BG levels. Thought I'd give it a try and cut out all fats, visible and invisible. Results were startling.

I have dry wholemeal toast (with salt and pepper - don't mock!) for breakfast, two wholemeal baps with egg or salad or both for lunch and whatever the memsahib has produced for an evening meal. This is often casseroled beef, or pork with mashed potatoes and lots of steamed veg. Nothing afterwards. Bear in mind portion control and absolutely no fats. Tonight I'm told it's steamed cod with new potatoes and peas.

I can probably dig out the article and email the link to whoever might be interested

Best wishes

very interesting, but you are eating fats in your eggs and meat. How do you account for that?

 

[Derek21]

very interesting, but you are eating fats in your eggs and meat. How do you account for that?

I'm told that lettuce is 10% fat but you have to draw a line somewhere. My meat is defatted, then dry roasted to remove all possible residues, then casseroled.

 

[sanguine]

I suppose the next question is if you are eating LCHF can you get GnT-4a supplements?

(Apologies to Crystal Lady, we're going OT a bit now).

 

[Derek21]

As an addendum, I was down to 6.2 on the 21st day, and 4.5 on the 28th day. It helps me to consider that I have chosen a life outside of eating in order to try and avoid the complications of Diabetes. I work full time and have 2 greenhouses and a polytunnel in my fifth of an acre with lots of fruit trees and bushes, so I can be busy.

My best wishes to all

 

[michelle88]

I've been doing moderate LCHF with good results. Reading this thread, however, has made me doubt again. No fat at all? Consuming fat makes the body blinded to BG levels? How very confusing. To be honest I don't want to go down the fat free route again because I don't believe in it, especially not after having experienced some success with LCHF

 

[jack412]

here is the study it's more of an observation that a causation and from the article, really is why diabetes org uk said it was worth further investigation and not we have found a cure

it looks like it was a high carb high fat diet and is inconsistent with my lchf diet where I am losing weight while high fat and my BG is also good,
for 3 weeks or a month as you did it won't hurt, but you cant have HF and high carb or low fat and LC, fat and carb is a seesaw balance equal amount or more or less of one

the Newcastle diet is to remove liver and pancreas fat, which is also the aim of LCHF and I guess would be the no fat which by it's nature has to be a eat the same just no fat diet which will also remove the fat from the liver and pancreas
this will work as long as you don't have too much pancreatic beta cell death

eating fat and having excess saturated fat in your blood seems to be different from what I have read,

here is the study and I would like to read a peer review of what was done
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17/n9/full/nm.2414.html
A connection between diet, obesity and diabetes exists in multiple species....
induced by elevated levels of free fatty acids or by administration of a high-fat diet with associated obesity

this is why I have concerns, because insulin resistance comes first, then the obesity

 

[Indy51]

I'm told that lettuce is 10% fat but you have to draw a line somewhere. My meat is defatted, then dry roasted to remove all possible residues, then casseroled.

This is absolute nonsense - lettuce has 0% fat as any nutrition guide will tell you.

 

[andcol]

Here is a conjecture - could this "fat blindness" be the cause of the increased insulin resistance when on high saturated fat diets in that it isn't insulin resistance but insulin ignorance. Just that something I had noticed is that as I increased my carb levels I have found that my BG levels fell (not that they where high) especially my peaks. Of course there are so many variables - still losing weight (when I don't pig out on bags of peanuts), protein consumption, muscle build up, more exercise, ....

To the OP it definitely sounds like you need to be checked out for LADA. If the doctors won't do it as the consultant when you see him/her. If it was me I would be watching my ketone levels with BG levels like that and only ever on the increase.

 

[Indy51]

here is the study it's more of an observation that a causation and from the article, really is why diabetes org uk said it was worth further investigation and not we have found a cure

it looks like it was a high carb high fat diet and is inconsistent with my lchf diet where I am losing weight while high fat and my BG is also good,
for 3 weeks or a month as you did it won't hurt, but you cant have HF and high carb or low fat and LC, fat and carb is a seesaw balance equal amount or more or less of one

the Newcastle diet is to remove liver and pancreas fat, which is also the aim of LCHF and I guess would be the no fat which by it's nature has to be a eat the same just no fat diet which will also remove the fat from the liver and pancreas
this will work as long as you don't have too much pancreatic beta cell death

eating fat and having excess saturated fat in your blood seems to be different from what I have read,

here is the study and I would like to read a peer review of what was done
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17/n9/full/nm.2414.html
A connection between diet, obesity and diabetes exists in multiple species....
induced by elevated levels of free fatty acids or by administration of a high-fat diet with associated obesity

this is why I have concerns, because insulin resistance comes first, then the obesity

It would also be interesting to read what the composition of the mouse feed in the study was. They are usually comprised of ghastly, cheap and nasty ingredients. Peter of the Hyperlipid blog (a veterinarian) is usually particularly scathing about the mouse/rat chow used in these types of studies, so I'd love to see his take on it. The full article and study seems to be behind a paywall, so pretty hard to say anything specific. The summary mentioned "hepatic steatosis' (fatty liver) then it's probably a fair bet that the chow had a high PUFA-6 content as that's seems to be the usual method used to induce fatty liver in lab animals. The Newcastle Diet seems very successful in reversing fatty liver/pancreas.

 

[Derek21]

I tried to be helpful, to offer an alternative viewpoint. I did say that I know all diabetes scenarios to be different. I have diabetes as an affliction, now under control, and not a hobby.
The fat free way worked for me instantly after 15 years of struggle with perceived wisdom. My metabolism is obviously working differently to others

by the way, lettuce is apparently 2.3g carbs, 0.94 sugars and 0.22g fat, per 100g, so my previous info was incorrect, as told to me.

Good luck to all and best wishes,

ends

 

[catherinecherub]

I tried to be helpful, to offer an alternative viewpoint. I did say that I know all diabetes scenarios to be different. I have diabetes as an affliction, now under control, and not a hobby.
The fat free way worked for me instantly after 15 years of struggle with perceived wisdom. My metabolism is obviously working differently to others

by the way, lettuce is apparently 2.3g carbs, 0.94 sugars and 0.22g fat, per 100g, so my previous info was incorrect, as told to me.

Good luck to all and best wishes,

ends

Good for you Derek, it is nice to hear of other successes.
You seem to have found a lot of opposition to a dietary approach that works for you.

 

[jack412]

I tried to be helpful, to offer an alternative viewpoint. I did say that I know all diabetes scenarios to be different. I have diabetes as an affliction, now under control, and not a hobby.
The fat free way worked for me instantly after 15 years of struggle with perceived wisdom. My metabolism is obviously working differently to others

by the way, lettuce is apparently 2.3g carbs, 0.94 sugars and 0.22g fat, per 100g, so my previous info was incorrect, as told to me.

Good luck to all and best wishes,

ends

it was helpful and you found that very low as possible/no fat worked for you and I would guess that it helped with any fatty liver/pancreas like the Newcastle diet does
I just didn't like the way the study was done and was no reflection you, you didn't write it

 

[Jenny39579]

Nope, I think it's time for insulin, you could try a couple of the new drugs, like the kidney one that passes sugar in your urine, but personally I like a drug to be on the market for 10 years before I touch it.

This might be a small and simple post of mine, but have you tried adding things like flaxseeds to your meal? I've started to put them with most of my meals, and apparently, if eaten with carbohydrate, it can slow down the absorption of carbohydrate which can make your BS more stable?

Also, I find that Almonds don't raise my blood sugar at all

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[phoenix]

@jack412
So OFF TOPIC for the main thread, (sorryP
Re Nature paper. It wasn't a diet trial at all though previous diet research forms a background to the study.
The study is an investigation at the DNA level of how dietary fat and fatty acids in the circulation may disrupt glucose sensing in the beta cells. Basically they used a variety of methods including beta cells from high fat diet mice/normal mice, beta cells from diabetic and non diabetic humans cultured in palmitic acid (a sat fat)

(heres what I think is the gist of it, it isn't an easy paper at all!)
High fat diets and fatty acids were both found to produce epigenetic modifications (acetylation of histones, which alters how the DNA is 'read') to 2 transcription factors FOXA2 and HNF1A.(these are areas outside the genes that act as switches turning genes on or off) . These changes caused less protein to be produced by 2 genes MGat4a and SL2a2 . The MGat4a gene codes for GnT-4a glyco transferase. This is an enzyme needed for the stimulation of the beta cell to produce insulin. The SL2a2 gene encodes for the glucose transporter GLUT1 which enables glucose to be transported across cell membranes. (, the cell can't 'sense the glucose if it doesn't get in ) They found human islets from T2 diabetics had reduced numbers of these transporters)
It's important to realise that the genes involved are homologous in mice and humans
They also found that when they genetically modified mice to overexpress the MGat4a gene, these mice could be fed high fat diets and become obese but had normal glucose levels (ie the beta cells worked). They also point out that MODY 3 is caused by an inherited genetic mutation to HnFa.
I'm sure though that it has undergone full professional peer review as it was in Nature so a top class journal.
http://grtc.ucsd.edu/curr_lit_fa11/CL8.pdf
Re diet in humans they cite several sources as in their intro. You could follow them up.