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LCHF diet to help you lose weight, not diabetes

That's fine but many new posters want quick advice. They join a forum like this for advice, not for a chat to discuss their background. Some are not comfortable discussing their medical history or circumstances. So again, one size does not fit all. Lastly, have I criticized any of your opening posts even though I don't agree with them all ? No. So, why do you feel the need to criticize others just because they are not to your liking ? I think we are in danger of making a pretty pointless thread into a two way discussion so I'll leave you to it. Look forward to reading more of your opening posts.
 
it's going to be hard winding up the lchf guys, when your diet fits into the % variance ..but you'll find something else to wind people up over
 
I think it's good my diet is officially LCHF, I like to fit in.
 
That's fine but many new posters want quick advice. They join a forum like this for advice, not for a chat to discuss their background. Some are not comfortable discussing their medical history or circumstances. So again, one size does not fit all. Lastly, have I criticized any of your opening posts even though I don't agree with them all ? No. So, why do you feel the need to criticize others just because they are not to your liking ? I think we are in danger of making a pretty pointless thread into a two way discussion so I'll leave you to it. Look forward to reading more of your opening posts.
those that are recent diagnosed can remember the day we clicked onto this site, I was scared and bewildered and didn't know what end was up...I didn't post at first, I spent a week reading the old posts...all the info is there..it's just repeated
It was a hell of a shock to me
 
I want to point out from the start that my post is not aimed at any individual member on this, or any other thread, these are general observations.

The reason I came to this forum is because I was a newly diagnosed Type 2 diabetic, scared, confused and clueless. Thanks solely to advice from the experienced members of this forum I quickly gained control. The reason I've stayed on this forum is, again, because of the members of this forum, some of who I consider friends and I'd gladly meet up with, others I'd cross the street to avoid.

Something that seems to either get forgotten, or maybe gets lost in translation, is that we all have diabetes of some form, whether that's Type 1, Type 2, LADA, Pre-diabetes, Reactive Hypoglaecemia etc etc. we all have a condition that needs to be controlled, and there are different ways to do this.

The issue is, as far as I can see, not the fact that there are different ways to control our conditions, but rather the arguments, personal attacks and sometimes hatred that seems to erupt when different diet factions get together on a thread, often on a newly diagnosed members early threads.

For the record, I have found what works for me which is a mixture of different approaches, but the key part of that statement is "works for me", it may not work for anyone else on this forum. We are all different, my pancreas may be producing more insulin than the next person, or I may be less insulin resistant than the next person, there is no one size fits all solution to our conditions.

The best advice I was given was to get a meter, the next best advice I was given was to eat to that meter, then and only then did it make sense to start cutting out certain food groups, I could see exactly what affected me and what didn't.

When threads are about anything other than diet it's rare to see any arguments, if threads were about religious beliefs or sexual preferences, there would be no rubbishing of members thoughts and observations, there's no reason for it to happen when it's regarding diet.

I fail to see why everyone can't comfortably co-exist.

Let's all go back to helping new members, and accepting that there will be different ways to do this.

Peace and love.

Steve
 
I want to point out from the start that my post is not aimed at any individual member on this, or any other thread, these are general observations.

The reason I came to this forum is because I was a newly diagnosed Type 2 diabetic, scared, confused and clueless. Thanks solely to advice from the experienced members of this forum I quickly gained control. The reason I've stayed on this forum is, again, because of the members of this forum, some of who I consider friends and I'd gladly meet up with, others I'd cross the street to avoid.

Something that seems to either get forgotten, or maybe gets lost in translation, is that we all have diabetes of some form, whether that's Type 1, Type 2, LADA, Pre-diabetes, Reactive Hypoglaecemia etc etc. we all have a condition that needs to be controlled, and there are different ways to do this.

The issue is, as far as I can see, not the fact that there are different ways to control our conditions, but rather the arguments, personal attacks and sometimes hatred that seems to erupt when different diet factions get together on a thread, often on a newly diagnosed members early threads.

For the record, I have found what works for me which is a mixture of different approaches, but the key part of that statement is "works for me", it may not work for anyone else on this forum. We are all different, my pancreas may be producing more insulin than the next person, or I may be less insulin resistant than the next person, there is no one size fits all solution to our conditions.

The best advice I was given was to get a meter, the next best advice I was given was to eat to that meter, then and only then did it make sense to start cutting out certain food groups, I could see exactly what affected me and what didn't.

When threads are about anything other than diet it's rare to see any arguments, if threads were about religious beliefs or sexual preferences, there would be no rubbishing of members thoughts and observations, there's no reason for it to happen when it's regarding diet.

I fail to see why everyone can't comfortably co-exist.

Let's all go back to helping new members, and accepting that there will be different ways to do this.

Peace and love.

Steve
Wow and all that from a West Ham supporter - who would have thought it? hey;)

Hi, Steve:):D
 
I am really concerned about the dynamics that are happening ....I don't think diet should be the first big discussion for someone here who is new or not so new ....people are of course free to follow what ever diet they wish , but let a person have time to breath first ....there is so much to,digest and people are all just shocked in many cases ...I know what diet I follow and choose but I would never push it at anyone ...like me telling everyone meat is bad for you , yes I choose not to eat meat , up to others what they do ...
Yes I agree it is dangerous to , we just don't know the facts and are not qualified to say .....suggestions and our experiences are all we can share ...but when you come here and are baffled with the diet that you should or should not be following while trying to get a grip on what is happening with your life and health is just not right ...that is how it feels ...
I like the information daisy gives ....as long as it stays within nice guidelines ....what is wrong with it ....it does highlight diet choices as well ...

Kat - I would wholly agree that when people arrive here they are often reeling from the news of their diagnosis, but more often than not they ask "What do I need to do to make this right?". In my view, that must then refer to diet, as it is so fundamental to our turnarounds. The detail of that diet is purely preference. One question I will ask you is - for yourself; have you reduced your carbohydrate intake since you were diagnosed as diabetic?
 
Kat - I would wholly agree that when people arrive here they are often reeling from the news of their diagnosis, but more often than not they ask "What do I need to do to make this right?". In my view, that must then refer to diet, as it is so fundamental to our turnarounds. The detail of that diet is purely preference. One question I will ask you is - for yourself; have you reduced your carbohydrate intake since you were diagnosed as diabetic?
Hi , thanks for asking , I have always been open about my diet ..sometimes low carb some times medium some GL eating ...for me I was probably eating the same type of veggie foods all my life ...sugar or my pancreatic issues seemed to be the problem ...both type 1 and 2 in my family ...
I have been making meals for years which I did not consider were the ones I mentioned above but they are and were...
Tea and sugar ...no they were never for me ...
I was really shocked still am 18 months on ...and confused at times and yes as I have said before I confuse myself at times ..
I don't follow high fat though ...and never will , but will use olive oil for cooking etc ...I tweak to suit my own diet needs ...
It is life long learning for me , not just as and when I was new , but this continues with my individual health medication and lifestyles needs.
I don't mind sharing at all , but I have not shared new news ....and I support all individuals whatever preference , but not sure how long this will continue for the virtual world can get exhausting at times ...
 
Hi , thanks for asking , I have always been open about my diet ..sometimes low carb some times medium some GL eating ...for me I was probably eating the same type of veggie foods all my life ...sugar or my pancreatic issues seemed to be the problem ...both type 1 and 2 in my family ...
I have been making meals for years which I did not consider were the ones I mentioned above but they are and were...
Tea and sugar ...no they were never for me ...
I was really shocked still am 18 months on ...and confused at times and yes as I have said before I confuse myself at times ..
I don't follow high fat though ...and never will , but will use olive oil for cooking etc ...I tweak to suit my own diet needs ...
It is life long learning for me , not just as and when I was new , but this continues with my individual health medication and lifestyles needs.
I don't mind sharing at all , but I have not shared new news ....and I support all individuals whatever preference , but not sure how long this will continue for the virtual world can get exhausting at times ...

I specifically didn't ask about the fat elements of your diet, probably because that is exactly where I see the divisions between the sides. I cannot think of anyone who posts on here, and has decent control who has continued to eat biscuits, cakes, potatoes, bread and pasts to their complete hearts desire, and those who now eat potentially significant levels have achieved that after a period of adjustment

For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.

I think we're really all arguing over detail here, but I cannot think of anyone arriving here who is not asking, roughly, the "what do I do?", question.

I'm not arguing with you, but what would you see as being an appropriate initial message? For me, had I not learned anything meaningful on my first visit, I doubt I would have come back.
 
I specifically didn't ask about the fat elements of your diet, probably because that is exactly where I see the divisions between the sides. I cannot think of anyone who posts on here, and has decent control who has continued to eat biscuits, cakes, potatoes, bread and pasts to their complete hearts desire, and those who now eat potentially significant levels have achieved that after a period of adjustment

For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.

I think we're really all arguing over detail here, but I cannot think of anyone arriving here who is not asking, roughly, the "what do I do?", question.

I'm not arguing with you, but what would you see as being an appropriate initial message? For me, had I not learned anything meaningful on my first visit, I doubt I would have come back.
Exactly, initial post must surely include low carb. It's the rest of the diet that is variable and is a personal choice.
 
Well I have just learnt how Lchf seem to go together hence my response to your question did not even read it as carb question only ...
I don't have an answer ...because not everyone would agree, we all would have different ideas ...
 
I specifically didn't ask about the fat elements of your diet, probably because that is exactly where I see the divisions between the sides. I cannot think of anyone who posts on here, and has decent control who has continued to eat biscuits, cakes, potatoes, bread and pasts to their complete hearts desire, and those who now eat potentially significant levels have achieved that after a period of adjustment

For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.

I think we're really all arguing over detail here, but I cannot think of anyone arriving here who is not asking, roughly, the "what do I do?", question.

I'm not arguing with you, but what would you see as being an appropriate initial message? For me, had I not learned anything meaningful on my first visit, I doubt I would have come back.

Would you then be suggesting the advice on carb reduction would be your route, but would you always assume everyone needed to make up the calories, and you would always suggest an alternative in your initial response?
If not what would be your advice to a newbie?
 
I specifically didn't ask about the fat elements of your diet, probably because that is exactly where I see the divisions between the sides. I cannot think of anyone who posts on here, and has decent control who has continued to eat biscuits, cakes, potatoes, bread and pasts to their complete hearts desire, and those who now eat potentially significant levels have achieved that after a period of adjustment

For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.

I think we're really all arguing over detail here, but I cannot think of anyone arriving here who is not asking, roughly, the "what do I do?", question.

I'm not arguing with you, but what would you see as being an appropriate initial message? For me, had I not learned anything meaningful on my first visit, I doubt I would have come back.
For me I just wanted support and a sense of belonging ..that happens more by pm...than on the site ....
 
I don't feel comfortable when a new guy wants to have protein over the RDA and I advise to think about it..if you have low carb and normal protein..it has to be high fat or be hungry, cold, continue to lose weight and sooner or later crash, because it's unsustainable
 
Would you then be suggesting the advice on carb reduction would be your route, but would you always assume everyone needed to make up the calories, and you would always suggest an alternative in your initial response?
If not what would be your advice to a newbie?
I specifically didn't ask about the fat elements of your diet, probably because that is exactly where I see the divisions between the sides. I cannot think of anyone who posts on here, and has decent control who has continued to eat biscuits, cakes, potatoes, bread and pasts to their complete hearts desire, and those who now eat potentially significant levels have achieved that after a period of adjustment

For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.

I think we're really all arguing over detail here, but I cannot think of anyone arriving here who is not asking, roughly, the "what do I do?", question.

I'm not arguing with you, but what would you see as being an appropriate initial message? For me, had I not learned anything meaningful on my first visit, I doubt I would have come back.
Do you have the answer we are looking for ...
 
I do feel that people jump in with links to sites that advocate very specific ways of controlling diabetes right at the start I think that Daisy's opening post is reasonable though I actually don't agree with it's description of the glycemic index (no wonder people don't think it works, wholegrain flour may have just as high a GI as white)
If I jumped in then I would like to talk about the diet I used successfully for my 3 years prior to insulin(LADA) or even more so the diet that I see working well and as advocated by the dietitian here (I have been involved helping with translation; unfortunately a lot of the newly diagnosed T2s here are Brits)

On a personal level , perhaps I would tell everyone to increase their green veggies......... great idea unless they happen to be taking warfarin
I'd say eat a wide variety of veggies of all colours but the amount I mean would definitely amount to more carbs than would be allowed on a very low carb plan like Bernstein........ But then it depends how we count.
I saw a thread elsewhere yesterday, one person counted 22g another counted 6g (I counted 18g)

I might suggest legumes ( but oh heck someone's just told them that all carbs are evil, every starch turns to sugar and the glycaemic index doesn't work) .

I would really like to mention exercise because it is so important for increasing insulin sensitivity
(but maybe I should do it carefully because not all people can exercise)

Fat is very contentious particularly as to the roles of the various types of fat in the development of heart disease . It is not straightforward. Its certainly too complex to discuss in a newcomers thread yet we have people making broad statements dismissing fat playing any role .In my opinion, it is important because although people worry about losing legs, CVD is the complication that will affect far more of us than any other (and most amputations occur because of circulatory problems coupled with neuropathy).

On fat though, we might all agree that foods containing omega 3s so oily fish a couple of times a week, even nuts as a snack rather than biscuits could be helpful (I certainly don't think that there is any evidence to the contrary and the NHS agrees)

As has (I think ) been pointed out, the term high fat is capable of multiple interpretations; if someone is only eating 1200cal a day then 70g of fat a day is 52% of calorie intake, so high-ish fat, however 70g is also the GDA for women.
On the other hand people who have a higher carb intake don't necessarily all get it by eating lots of pies, pastries, pasta , desserts or bread (if they have good control that is; even when they take insulin;) (sorry I get the impression sometimes that people believe this to be the case)



I no longer put anything on an introductory thread. To be honest, I'm intimidated, I certainly don't want to start an argument on a beginners thread so I don't.
Maybe Daisy's thread could be revised, I've already mentioned one thing I think is wrong, others may have other points.
 
My initial post to a newbie would be to explain the importance of testing us a means of learning how to adjust diet to bring glucose levels down

I would explain the need to either reduce carb intake or substitute better carbs for those that spike them until they can reach satisfactory glucose counts, especially post prandial relative to preprandial.

I might even explain that there are a number of approaches to diet that forum members have found to work. I might even go into what I have personally found to work best for me, but always pointing out that we are all individuals and they may end up arriving at a different solution that suits them better.

I would not limit my response to matters of diet alone but would explain that what is required is a new way of life, involving a lot of changes that will aid their management, more physical activity, losing weight, reducing stress, giving up smoking.

But most importantly of all I would not forget that I am responding to an individual who is in all probability still in a state of shock and is desperate for some reassurance.

I am afraid too often our responses are too simplistic "stop eating this and you'll be fine" or worse "if I ate that I would go blind" or end up being a pissing contest on who is taking in the least number of grams of carbs or has achieved the lowest HbA1c score.

For the record I have cut back greatly on carbs myself, because that is what my meter required and I am experimenting with increasing fat intake.

Pavlos
 
I think some people are looking for the Holy Grail of diets and it doesn't exist. That's why a post informing someone to reduce their carbs is a no brainer. There's no need to complicated recipes or specific meals as it becomes confusing. Even something as simple as "reduce carbs" can be interpreted differently by those with a pedantic slant but newly diagnosed need a quick, simple solution that brings immediate results.
 
@phoenix Good point about the warfarin and eating lots of veggies, this isn't recommended in the initial stages of warfarin treatment, but after that when the INR has stabilised it's a lot easier to increase the amount of leafy green veg you can eat, with the help of weekly INR testing. My nurse told me to stabilise my INR levels first and then eat the diet I wanted and we would adjust the warfarin to suit my diet. So happily, curly kale became a regular addition to my diet again.:)
 
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