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Some thoughts on ketones.

Merrylizard1314 said:
Why are your ketones so high, Pasha dear? Is it deliberate?
Hope you are feeling really well.
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Late answer ,just back from a family celebration.

Just doing an experiment on myself to see how low I need to go to get lower limit normal FBG. At the moment it 15grams carbs 60 grams protein and 152 grams fats. Have also been measuring blood ketones BHOB and acetone via a breathyliser. Next step I will increase my proteins to 70 grams a day and see what happens. I am not aiming to get very high Ketone levels like today, especially as there is no added bonus for the these high results.
 
Pasha said:
Late answer ,just back from a family celebration.

Just doing an experiment on myself to see how low I need to go to get lower limit normal FBG. At the moment it 15grams carbs 60 grams protein and 152 grams fats. Have also been measuring blood ketones BHOB and acetone via a breathyliser. Next step I will increase my proteins to 70 grams a day and see what happens. I am not aiming to get very high Ketone levels like today, especially as there is no added bonus for the these high results.
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Hi Pasha,
I was waiting also for your reply to Merrylizard.
I know I'm quite new to the business, also that you are well experienced, but I know ketoacidosis is very risky, and can escalate quickly into dangerous zones.
Just take good care Sir :-)
 
Thanks for your concern Moshe, todays trial ended this experiment, and as I increase my protein intake I should see a gradual decrease in breath acetone levels and hopefully BG will not increase too much.
Thanks again,
Pasha.
 
O, thank goodness!
Such relief that it was another of your experiments, and not a serious downturn, Pasha, I have been a bit anxious all day.
I hope you had a lovely celebration, with a few more grams of protein than usual!
 
nomistheman said:
Ketoacidosis is the presence of high blood ketones alongside high blood glucose.

I wouldn't say 6 mmol / L is dangerously high for ketones - although not necessarily optimal for ketosis. Also, I would suggest alongside the very low blood glucose levels @Pasha achieves - there was absolutely no danger. :)
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The third factor for ketoacidosis is extremely low or absence of insulin. Dehydration can also contribute to mildly high ketone levels.
 
nomistheman said:
Ketoacidosis is the presence of high blood ketones alongside high blood glucose.

I wouldn't say 6 mmol / L is dangerously high for ketones - although not necessarily optimal for ketosis. Also, I would suggest alongside the very low blood glucose levels @Pasha achieves - there was absolutely no danger. :)
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Thanks Nomis,
I would say nevertheless, that an escalation of ketone levels into ketoacidosis is dangerous, which was the sole point of my concern.
I was well aware of the fact that Pasha can handle the situation, while noticing that his levels seemed higher than usual.
All the best.
 
eddie1968 said:
Pasha do you report your blood ketones in non mmol/L units ? My DSN and ketone strips say a measurement of >= 1.5 mmol/L is an emergency and calls for specialist treatment.
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Hi ,

See here,http://nutritionalketosisforhealth.com/what-is-nutritional-ketosis/

With all due respect ,I think that your DSN could well benefit from also reading this article and perhaps even upgrade her knowledge on the subject.

By the way 1.5 mmoles/dl BHOB is 156 mgs/l of beta hydroxy butyrate per liter.
 
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nomistheman said:
You are so knowledgable!

I didn't know either of those two facts.

It's true - you learn something new every day.

I wonder if I'm drinking too much water and that's why I only ever seem to go into the low part of the optimal ketosis range?
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How much water do you drink per day ?
 
nomistheman said:
I recognise your concern and do appreciate your caring nature and I'm sure @Pasha does too. I wouldn't want you to think I was in any way having a go at you. Please dismiss any such thought.

My intention was to highlight the common misconception of high ketones automatically being diagnosed as ketoacidosis - when in fact it is just one element that shouldn't be considered in isolation.

Enjoy your Sunday and well done on your Stella achievement in weight loss. :)
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Thank you very much indeed, Sir:-)
I had no clue about the absolute difference between pathological ketoacidosis, and nutritional ketoacidosis...
I just finished reading the article linked to @Pasha's article, and my jaw is still hanging :-o
I can't believe...
I have to go back and read it again, checking the links...
Wishing you a great day, too :-D
 
I'm not getting into a debate on ketone levels but I am on insulin and have a glucose and B-Ketone meter. It stipulates 0-0.6 is normal, 0.7 is need for more insulin and 1.5 and greater is a medical emergency and both meters have been supplied by the NHS.
 
eddie1968 said:
Is this a blood reading in a ketone meter? Your making me think.....
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Yes, I reported a reading of 6.6 mmoles/l which is approaching the upper limit of the safe range for healthy people in nutritional ketosis. I measure it the same way that you do.

I am prediabetic and your are t2, I guess ,and taking insulin, so I dont have the knowledge or the qualifications to comment on your situation. In your position I would also be following the NHS advice to the letter.
 
nomistheman said:
I work on the premise that we should drink a minimum of 8 glasses which I work out to be 4 pints = roughly 2 litres. Is that right?

Generally, I consume fluid at least to the minimum and often twice that amount. Mainly comprised of clear fresh water with around 0.8 litres being coffee and around 0.6 litres being tea.
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Two litres sounds like the right amount. Thats the amount I drink. A nurse once told me not to drink too much "otherwise I will pee out most of my medications". Maybe its time for me to ask Mr Google if its true.
 
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