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Fatty Liver

DawnPhenomenon

DawnPhenomenon

Well-Known Member
Messages
107
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Other
I've been reading here that a fatty liver is caused by carbs and not fat. If this is true, how is it that geese are force fed fat to prepare their livers for pate making?
 
Good reason not to rat fois gras...anything force fed can't be good nutrition karma.
 
yes, I thought it was cornmeal too...

Edited to add: have just checked Wikipedia, and the usual food used on geese is corn boiled with fat, the fat being added to aid digestion.

So that is kind of like chips, bread and butter, pasta in cream sauces, rice with rich curry... all the foods we Western humans have been stuffing during the 'diabetes epidemic'. Seems lto me it is the fat/carb combo, not the fat alone OR the carbs alone, which have the magic fatty liver effect (although carbs alone have an impact on BG, as we know). Like a see saw, with the damage being done when the see saw is level.

Interestingly, it only takes 12-15 days of being fed this mush 2-4 times a day, for the goose's liver to increase to 10x its size, and be ready for slaughter. I wonder how long the goose would survive, with such a fatty liver, if it was allowed to continue to live?

Scary stuff, eh?
 
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Brunneria said:
yes, I thought it was cornmeal too...

Edited to add: have just checked Wikipedia, and the usual food used on geese is corn boiled with fat, the fat being added to aid digestion.

So that is kind of like chips, bread and butter, pasta in cream sauces, rice with rich curry... all the foods we Western humans have been stuffing during the 'diabetes epidemic'. Seems lto me it is the fat/carb combo, not the fat alone OR the carbs alone, which have the magic fatty liver effect (although carbs alone have an impact on BG, as we know). Like a see saw, with the damage being done when the see saw is level.

Interestingly, it only takes 12-15 days of being fed this mush 2-4 times a day, for the goose's liver to increase to 10x its size, and be ready for slaughter. I wonder how long the goose would survive, with such a fatty liver, if it was allowed to continue to live?

Scary stuff, eh?
Click to expand...

I think the fat just enables the corn to be pumped in more easily.
As to the 'fatty liver' have a look at

http://www.chefstandards.com/media/uploads/everything_about_foie_gras.pdf

the 'good side' of the coin, and also some interesting info about why ducks and geese have fatty livers.
 
DawnPhenomenon said:
So too much fat does cause a fatty liver! It seems that too many calories causes a fatty liver no matter where they come from
Click to expand...


Not something I'm clued up, I've seen the British Liver Trust website before and thought that would be a good source for reliable information on the condition.
 
DawnPhenomenon said:
So too much fat does cause a fatty liver! It seems that too many calories causes a fatty liver no matter where they come from
Click to expand...

It is a weird thing.

A lot of people of a LCHF diet find that their liver defattifies.
The key seems to be dropping the carbs low enough.

But there really hasn't been much work on the subject, because all the research bods are still hung up on stuff like 'is LCHF sustainable' and 'will LCHF give you heart disease'.

The people actually living LCHF tend to find it very sustainable, and find that their cholesterol results improve (lowered Trigs and raised HDL) - speaking from experience here - and you only have to read the forum success stories to see how many people are benefitting.

But there just haven't been the widespread studies that prove this. It is as though the LCHF community are decades ahead of the researchers.

And of course, you do always get the people who tried it and failed. But then you get that everywhere - and since I am a failed low-fatter, I completely understand that nothing suits everyone. ;)

You may find reading up on the Newcastle Diet and Professor Taylor's research interesting. He has reversed T2 in about 70% of a small study by weight loss - which effectively defatted their livers. A larger, longer term study is now being conducted. Many people on this forum have replicated his dietary guidelines, with interesting results.
 
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Brunneria said:
It is a weird thing.

A lot of people of a LCHF diet find that their liver defattifies.
The key seems to be dropping the carbs low enough.

But there really hasn't been much work on the subject, because all the research bods are still hung up on stuff like 'is LCHF sustainable' and 'will LCHF give you heart disease'.

The people actually living LCHF tend to find it very sustainable, and find that their cholesterol results improve (lowered Trigs and raised HDL) - speaking from experience here - and you only have to read the forum success stories to see how many people are benefitting.

But there just haven't been the widespread studies that prove this. It is as though the LCHF community are decades ahead of the researchers.

And of course, you do always get the people who tried it and failed. But then you get that everywhere - and since I am a failed low-fatter, I completely understand that nothing suits everyone. ;)
Click to expand...

A common thing on LCHF is a reduction in calories as well.

So the article is still correct, too much food, carbs, or fats, or proteins, causes a build up of triglycerides.
Cut the excess, and the liver has nothing to store.
Which seems to be in agreement with the variety of diets on here, which all seem to work for those reporting back on them.
 
True, I was actually thinking that I ought to pop back and edit my post above - because of the weight loss lots of people experience on LCHF - which has exactly the same effect.

Professor (ND) Taylor's theory is that 8 weeks on his diet (the NEwcastle Diet) will reduce the bodyweight by a significant amount. And the magic number is 15% or there abouts. That is when the benefit of weight loss, normalising of BG and defattifying all really kick in.

Maybe an ND expert will chip in and correct me if I am wrong...
 
I'm.one of those and the wife who has had or has a non alcoholic fatty liver.
My fatty liver and liver function tests are now normal due to very low carb and high fat.
I didn't honestly know beforehand that my liver would repair itself.
The wife's is improving but at a slower rate.
We have been both accused of alcoholic overuse. Not the case.
I was in a right state a few years ago with all my endocrine organs.
Now, they are all in normal range and my vital signs, BP etc, are the same.
Thanks to this forum and low carbing!
 
nosher8355 said:
I'm.one of those and the wife who has had or has a non alcoholic fatty liver.
My fatty liver and liver function tests are now normal due to very low carb and high fat.
I didn't honestly know beforehand that my liver would repair itself.
The wife's is improving but at a slower rate.
We have been both accused of alcoholic overuse. Not the case.
I was in a right state a few years ago with all my endocrine organs.
Now, they are all in normal range and my vital signs, BP etc, are the same.
Thanks to this forum and low carbing!
Click to expand...

Maybe you need a goose liver?
The article there reckons compared to ours, they are nearly indestructible!

Back to Brunneria's theory though, did you lose weight, and any idea if you over eat, or under eat, calorie wise as it where?

I reckon I have cut down on food overall since cutting the carbs.
 
SunnyExpat said:
Maybe you need a goose liver?
The article there reckons compared to ours, they are nearly indestructible!

Back to Brunneria's theory though, did you lose weight, and any idea if you over eat, or under eat, calorie wise as it where?

I reckon I have cut down on food overall since cutting the carbs.
Click to expand...
And me, small portions little and often. Because of my condition.
Yes I've lost over four stone in about two years plus.
I cook with goose fat tho! Never tried to eat goose liver, sorry!
Never counted calories, carbs or anything, I eat to my metre and have been at this religiously for over the same period.
Sometimes I do have too much, but I have fasting days to help my pancreas have a rest, don't want it to give out on me, just as I've got healthy again!
 
One of my favourite bloggers is George Henderson who has made a study of liver health. His recommendations for diet are worth reading. He believes excess PUFAs are also a factor:

http://hopefulgeranium.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/fatty-liver-and-its-treatment.html

Dr Unwin's study is also showing benefits of low carb for fatty liver:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/at-last-in-the-british-medical-journal.81487/
http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4023.full?ijkey=AN2nBwW6h3wuQJK&keytype=ref
 
Can anyone tell me how fatty liver is diagnosed? Blood tests, scan, or biopsy?
 
Mine was ultrasound (also showed fatty pancreas), though usually they only do those after raised ALT or GGT levels in liver function blood tests or they find it doing imaging for other symptoms.

Seems to be part of the whole metabolic syndrome.
 
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