T1D LCKD + 16/8 IF

[jddukes]

Has anyone who is insulin dependent used a ketogenic diet in combination with an intermittent fasting (IF) diet?

I am trying the 16hr fast 8hr feed IF approach but also low carb (<40g per day). Wondering if anyone has experience in this?

I wake at 5am, train at gym from 6:30-7:30am (6-7km run, some weights) then only have black coffee and water until 1pm where I then have lunch. I will have an afternoon snack and dinner and stop feeding by 9pm and repeat.

With exercise and VLCKD I was able to eliminate novorapid and only take lantus once in morning first thing (17iu). I am now taking 10iu at 5am and a further 6iu at 1pm and seems to be working well for levels. I'm hoping to drop some body fat with this approach.

Anyone who has done any IF with T1D I would be interested in hearing how you got on!

Thanks,
J

 

[amrita86]

hey there! i am doing the same thing for two weeks i am insulin dependent using a ketogenic diet in combination with the 16/8 IF. i use the same window for eating as yourself and its working brilliantly for me. as a result i have also eliminated the need for novorapid insulin and only have 8units levemir at 8pm and 8units levemir at 8am. i used to exercise daily at 630am for an hour but this either elevated my BG depending on the type of exercise or resulted in a delayed hypo so i have stopped exercising whilst taking up this new regime of ketogenic diet and 16/8 IF combined. i do miss exercising but as my BG has been so steady i dont want to risk ruining it. i am contemplating trying pilates or yoga /running on the weekend. i think i may need to reduce my levemir dose as ocasionally i have woken up at 2am with a hypo of 2.5 :S and i am worried about losing my hypo awareness. what exercise regime do you follow and do you find it raises your BG during or post exercise?

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Our routines and approaches sound extremely similar. I would say that the only difference is that I have zero interest in IF.

I think IF serves its purpose particularly in addressing insulin resistance. However, based on what I've seen that comes at the expense of muscle retention. Ultimately, I feel that you must prioritize what is your most important goal. If you look at many of the before/after pictures of people who engage in intermittent fasting they've certainly lost a significant amount of weight, but I would argue that many (but not all) don't look particularly healthy. Many of them are physically defined by small arms and legs, yet they still look "flabby." I'd also consider how valuable lean mass (muscle) is with regard to diabetes, osteoporosis, and many other health issues.

I say all of this with a purpose and certainly don't want to take away from the success that others have had, but we each need to define and prioritize our own health goals and decide the best approach.

What works for me: I'm on a very similar insulin regimen taking 10units of Levemir at night and 6u in the morning. Like you, I wake up around 4-5am and head to the gym or run shortly after. Unlike you, I eat something (usually high in protein and limited to 150-200 cals) immediately after my exercise with the mindset of repairing my muscles, but without the unwanted body fat storage. A few hours later (10-11am) I usually eat another small meal and then have lunch around 1pm.

The two small meals before lunch may seem like only a small variance from the 16/8 plan, but I consider them to be a crucial part of my diet in preserving the weight I want to keep (muscle) but without the addition of the weight I want to avoid (body fat).

 

[jddukes]

Thanks for the replies! I didn't think I would find someone in the same situation/using a very similar approach to myself.

I agree you have to think about goals and what you want out of it. Personally, I find it fine controlling my BS levels on VLCHF keto diet. If I stick to it. I am finding it easier to stick to it or deviate only slightly and maintain good BS levels on the IF 16-8 approach. So far....

However I think the muscle mass point has to be understood in the context of how those people approached the diet. If you go in cal deficit with any diet and do not train muscle then you will lose muscle mass, especially if protein is not at a sufficient level to stop protein use as fuel. This is especially true when you lose weight quite quickly. I hear of a lot of people not combining exercise with IF and I also think it attracts the sort of dieter that doesn't want to exercise and/or doesn't have time. It is a benefit of the diet, it is simple, the main rules are easy to follow and revolve more simply around timing.

As someone who lifts weights and used to do so very seriously prior to a bad shoulder problem and op, this was one of the reasons for a while I did not consider IF as an option for me (and the whole T1D thing!). However I recently read about several people and lines of evidence that if proper training is adhered to, muscle mass can be preserved or even increased.

For example, see:
http://jamesclear.com/intermittent-fasting-lessons-learned
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27550719
http://greatist.com/fitness/why-you-should-exercise-on-an-empty-stomach
etc

So I would suggest that it is certainly possible to maintain, and even possible to increase muscle mass on such a diet. In the context of trying to lose body fat, I consider maintenance of muscle mass whilst dropping body fat a positive outcome and one to aim for. It seems to me this could be easily achieved based on what I have read. I must admit also, I have felt stronger on this diet, ironically.

The problem I have with the small meals are the potential effects on HGH and maximizing fat loss, mainly, so trying to stick to proper 16/8.

@amrita86 - every diabetic responds differently to exercise, and different forms. Also it depends how much adrenaline you produce and how you react to that. Often an increase BS from exercise can be associated with the adrenaline response. Then a bit of a crash later. This is why I take only 16-17iu of lantus//glargine on exercise days, as the exercise helps keep my BS in the 6-9mmol/l range.
As I have just recovered from a shoulder op I am back into weights. So currently 5x a week I will run 6k for 30min on the treadmill then do 25min of weights. This is split by Chest Monday, Back Tues, Legs Weds, Arms Thursday, Very light shoulder work + abdominal Friday. Weekends off. My levels don't go very high during exercise, although maybe come up a small amount, but then slowly reduce after potentially. I think also because I take lantus in the morning not at night (always have) and I exercise in the morning on either an empty stomach (with IF) or just 1 egg (if not IF), the lantus recent injection does help keep the levels from going up with exercise. I do not believe Lantus is flat and 24-hour - for me it definitely peaks.