What happens if I break my keto diet for christmas?

[the_anticarb]

So, I've been hard keto dieting (<20g carbs/day) and lost 10.5lbs in 2 weeks. I want to lose a stone so will continue til christmas ideally.

I don't want to deny myself 'normal' food at christmas as to me that wouldn't be christmas, I know a lot of people will say you can still low carb at christmas but I am choosing not to.

I'd like to be able to give myself christmas eve/christmas day/ boxing day to eat and drink what I'd like and then get back to low carbing.

I have MODY/T2 and have stopped all medication whilst doing my keto diet yet still my bloods are in the normal range (been checking regularly)

If I go back to carbs for a few days clearly I will go back on my meds/insulin although it may be a little tricky to get the exact insulin dose although i'll test and correct if necessary.

I'm hoping some of the more experienced low carbers may be able to answer the following:

1. What can I expect from coming out of ketosis back on to normal foods quite rapidly (and let's face it there will be some christmassy treats in there. And alcohol).

2. Am I better to phase my carbs back in, so eg I increase gradually a few days before?

3. Will I be more affected by alcohol if i'm in ketosis or just come out of it (there is the work christmas party this week, I will eat low carb but don't want to miss out on a few drinks)

4. Will be insulin requirements be MORE or LESS than befoer? I've lost 10lbs so I'm thinking I'll need less insulin... but if I've just come out of ketosis will my body be very carb sensitive and possibly need more to cope with an unexpected carb load?

Any other advice welcome. I know it's not ideal to go in and out of ketosis, but I've made a choice to relax my diet at christmas and have some treats for a few days, so just need to know how to go about 'damage limitation'.

Thanks

 

[sally and james]

I don't actually know what will happen to you, but my money would be on a regain of those 10lbs. A sudden rise in insulin levels and all that sugar has to go somewhere and you will retain more water, so that will show on the scales.
Damage limitation: portion control.
Sally

 

[douglas99]

I can only answer as a T2, not on insulin, and with very good 'reversal' of T2 at the moment, but from experience on the journey.

If I don't eat carbs, the first spike is very noticeable.
After that, my body catches up, so eating carbs has much less effect.
So, start off small, then check as nothing will be as expected, and then it'll change again.
Then try not to drop in and out of eating, I personally then respond better to carbs if I keep 'topped up' on them. But obviously don't go mad.
Alcohol affects your liver response, so you will be lower than when you're not drinking, as the liver will be processing the alcohol.

And as said, don't worry about the scales, it'll only be water, not fat, and that'll shift again quickly.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

T2, diet and exercise, long term keto/low carber, no expectation of 'reversal', used to bg levels constantly under 7mmol/l while on keto diet.

This is what would happen to me, if I switched back to a 'moderate' carb diet - not even a heavy christmas carb diet - for a few days (I tried it on a week's hol this Autumn, so the memory is very fresh):

1: abrupt, high bg spikes of 15+mmol/l after carbs which took 5+ hours to return to the 6s and 7s.
2: sleepiness and heavy limbs and apathy after eating
3: high risk of hypos when bg drops after the spike, largely depending on what the carb: protein: fat: fibre ratios were in the food. Pure carbs => reactive hypoglycaemic drop, good mix of fats, protein and fibre => prolongued highs, and more gentle drops.
4: ravening carb cravings, disturbed sleep and a weird hot flush/night sweat routine
5: indigestion and heartburn (usually after 2-3 days)
6: the high spikes are supposed to reduce (have a google for 'last meal effect') as the body adjusts to the increased carbs and ramps up its insulin production to deal with them. Supposed to happen within about 3-5 days, but takes much longer for me. Actually, I don't really know if it does happen for me, simply because when I pushed it to 10 days and saw absolutely no improvement, I gave up and went back to VLC. I was feeling so dreadful by that time, it was a relief to get off the bg rollercoaster.
7: after several days of carbs, I get all the old symptoms back. The joints ache, brain fog, lack of concentration, slow reaction times, reluctance to move, revulsion for exercise, general aches, constant tiredness... By day 5 I was going up stairs leaning forwards onto my hands, trying to ease the load on my knees because they were so painful.
8: increased fasting blood glucose that takes weeks to return to normal

Incidently, this holiday carb fest didn't change my Libre average reading, but my bg was up and down like The Shard's elevator, which was more than half the problem.

Now, obviously not everyone gets these symptoms, and I have recently confirmed a gluten intolerance, so at least some of the symptoms listed above will have come from that. Maybe a gluten free carb fest wouldn't be so bad for me? But it would be challenging at Xmas.
- but really, I have no desire to find out. With all the above happening, it was more than enough to confirm that Xmas would be MUCH MORE FUN if I stayed LC and was able to enjoy myself, rather that eating carbs and having the entire holiday disappear into a brain fogged blur of misery.

I would rather indulge in LC goodies, and feel great.

Of course, you have insulin, so have a different situation, and a much better chance of controlling the glucose peaks.
Sorry, I can't offer any suggestions on insulin needs, but if you got for it, I would like to wish you well with your MDI 'reentry'

 

[the_anticarb]

I can only answer as a T2, not on insulin, and with very good 'reversal' of T2 at the moment, but from experience on the journey.

If I don't eat carbs, the first spike is very noticeable.
After that, my body catches up, so eating carbs has much less effect.
So, start off small, then check as nothing will be as expected, and then it'll change again.
Then try not to drop in and out of eating, I personally then respond better to carbs if I keep 'topped up' on them. But obviously don't go mad.
Alcohol affects your liver response, so you will be lower than when you're not drinking, as the liver will be processing the alcohol.

And as said, don't worry about the scales, it'll only be water, not fat, and that'll shift again quickly.

Thanks I was wondering more about whether the alcohol would intoxicate me more, rather than how it affected my blood sugar as I've heard this can happen in ketosis... I'll be out of ketosis for xmas but I have the work's christmas do on Wednesday and will allow myself a few drinks, don't want to make a fool of myself !

 

[the_anticarb]

Hi,

T2, diet and exercise, long term keto/low carber, no expectation of 'reversal', used to bg levels constantly under 7mmol/l while on keto diet.

This is what would happen to me, if I switched back to a 'normal' carb diet - not even a heavy christmas carb diet - for a few days (I tried it on a week's hol this Autumn, so the memory is very fresh):

1: abrupt, high bg spikes of 15+mmol/l after carbs which would probably take 5+ hours to return to the 6s and 7s.
2: sleepiness and heavy limbs and apathy after eating
3: high risk of hypos when bg drops after the spike, largely depending on what the carbrotein:fat:fibre ratios were in the food. Pure carbs => reactive hypoglycaemic drop, good mix of fats, protein and fibre => prolongued highs, and more gentle drops.
4: ravening carb cravings, disturbed sleep and a weird hot flush/night sweat routine
5: indigestion and heartburn (usually after 2-3 days)
6: the high spikes are supposed to reduce (have a google for 'last meal effect') as the body adjusts to the increased carbs and ramps up its insulin production to deal with them. Supposed to happen within about 3-5 days, but takes much longer for me. Actually, I don't really know if it does happen for me, simply because when I pushed it to 10 days and saw absolutely no improvement, I gave up and went back to VLC. I was feeling so dreadful by that time, it was a relief to get off the bg rollercoaster.
7: after several days of carbs, I get all the old symptoms back. The joints ache, brain fog, lack of concentration, slow reaction times, reluctance to move, revulsion for exercise, general aches, constant tiredness... By day 5 I was going up stairs leaning forwards onto my hands, trying to ease the load on my knees because they were so painful.
8: increased fasting blood glucose that takes weeks to return to normal

Now, obviously not everyone gets these symptoms, and I have recently confirmed a gluten intolerance, so at least some of the symptoms listed above will have come from that. Maybe a gluten free carb fest wouldn't be so bad for me? Certainly it would be challenging at Xmas.
- but really, I have no desire to find out. With all the above happening, it was more than enough to confirm that Xmas would be MUCH MORE FUN if I stayed LC and was able to enjoy myself, rather that eating carbs and having the entire holiday disappear into a brain fogged blur of misery.

Of course, you have insulin, so have a different situation, and a much better chance of controlling the glucose peaks.
Sorry, I can't offer any suggestions on insulin needs, but if you got for it, I would like to wish you well with your MDI 'reentry'

Thanks, it's the 'lesser of two evils' choice really isn't it. Eat the carbs and possibly feel ill/ avoid them not feel ill but psychologically I'll feel like I'm missing out. I know I shouldn't. I've actually felt quite liberated from the carb cravings and constant desire to eat the past two weeks. But we're conditioned from childhood to associate christmas with 'treat food'. In my family we have a big buffet on christmas eve, then continue stuffing ourselves. Last year I did actually make myself ill so maybe I need to try some moderation. Only trouble is, I've never been very good at moderation!

 

[Oldvatr]

I am a T2 not on insulin, and I took a holiday last Xmas along those same lines. My BGL jumped up into the mid teens and above, even though I maintained my orals, and we ate LC where it was convenient. I also increae weight by about 6 kg.

I returned to LCHF after the holiday, and the levels dropped quite qickly. Soon I was back to normal.

The only caution I would advise is to watch your bgl and how returning to insulin affects you. Especially if using alcohol which is known to trigger hypo events unexpectedly incl when asleep or otherwise out of it! You may find that the improvement that allowed you to drop the insulin may give short term protection and you may get away with allowing bgl to rise hjgh for a short term without long term detriment. As a T2, I used to run my motor flat out at >32 mmol/l for some time, and I did not get ketoacidosis since I still produce some insulin. but a T1D or other insulin dependant should take care to check for this dangerous condition when running high bgl.

Happy burping Christmas without Humbug!

 

[Brunneria]

Thanks, it's the 'lesser of two evils' choice really isn't it. Eat the carbs and possibly feel ill/ avoid them not feel ill but psychologically I'll feel like I'm missing out. I know I shouldn't. I've actually felt quite liberated from the carb cravings and constant desire to eat the past two weeks. But we're conditioned from childhood to associate christmas with 'treat food'. In my family we have a big buffet on christmas eve, then continue stuffing ourselves. Last year I did actually make myself ill so maybe I need to try some moderation. Only trouble is, I've never been very good at moderation!

haha! yes, that is exactly it.

Last year I was very virtuous. Had great food, but it was all a bit ordinary and sensibly LC, and I felt a bit of a party pooper.

This year I intend to adopt a very different attitude. I will be glutting and gorging and stuffing on amazing LC stuff. Not a carb in sight. Virtue and Gluttony simultaneously.

LC truffles
LC fat bombs
LC halva
LC muffins and baked goods
LC cranberry sauce and LC mince pies
Cheese
and all the usual ordinary foods as long as they are LC

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks, it's the 'lesser of two evils' choice really isn't it. Eat the carbs and possibly feel ill/ avoid them not feel ill but psychologically I'll feel like I'm missing out. I know I shouldn't. I've actually felt quite liberated from the carb cravings and constant desire to eat the past two weeks. But we're conditioned from childhood to associate christmas with 'treat food'. In my family we have a big buffet on christmas eve, then continue stuffing ourselves. Last year I did actually make myself ill so maybe I need to try some moderation. Only trouble is, I've never been very good at moderation!

Surely you could make up some of the LC snacks, and put them in the buffet for yourself so things like berries and full cream instead of / or alongside a small portion of xmas pud?
Trouble is when I did this last year, the carboholics in the family preferred the LC snacks, and they disappeared first. I managed to convert my immediate family to follow an LC diet with me, and we still do today, simply because they actually prefer this way of eating. I do not limit them in supplementing their carbs, but our main meal has remained LC for a year now, thanks to the DCUK Christmas Recipes 2015.

 

[Resurgam]

I have done a lot of low carb Christmases - and never felt at all deprived - and I suspect that the anticipation of all the things you are expecting to eat will first of all mean that you don't look for and prepare the things you could eat and stay low carb, and secondly make you feel really dismal when you are feeling absolutely dreadful after over indulging.
Low carb is for life, but it is not a life sentence, it is how you can stay alert, lively and full of energy - you can have the turkey and all sorts of veges, start off with prawns and salad finish off with a trifle or low carb concoction with real custard, drink spirits with a diet mixer - but watch out, as I become intoxicated very fast on small amounts of alcohol.
You can have real ice cream and stay low carb, have jellies with real fruit, real whipped cream. Low carb is not a hardship at all if you plan ahead and read the labels of everything processed - the shops like to sell carbs at protein prices, it ups their profits wonderfully.

 

[the_anticarb]

Ideally I would like to be able to have SOME carbs. Even the chocolatey/sugary/pastry type things.

I can inject some extra insulin, but I'll overshoot my target and go hypo if I take too much so it is a bit of a guessing game if a) I'm lighter and b) I'm eating foods that aren't my usual foods.

I did say I wasn't good at moderation but maybe that should be my goal this christmas. To find the happy medium. I just remember feeling tired and ill after too much indulgence last year and do you know what, after the first few things I wasn't even enjoying it that much but couldn't stop. I have a very black and white approach to food after years of diabetes, and dieting a lot as a teen even before the dreaded D struck. But I think maybe that's what I need to work on.

 

[douglas99]

Thanks I was wondering more about whether the alcohol would intoxicate me more, rather than how it affected my blood sugar as I've heard this can happen in ketosis... I'll be out of ketosis for xmas but I have the work's christmas do on Wednesday and will allow myself a few drinks, don't want to make a fool of myself !

I think it depends on how much you drink normally.
Alcohol has never affected me greatly, but I do notice if I abstain for a week or two now, it has more effect when I start again. I guess like everything, you build up a tolerance.
But then again, I have a lifetime experience of outdrinkinking most people, but it one of the things that really puts weight on me though, so I have reduced it considerably to control my weight.

 

[kittypoker]

So, I've been hard keto dieting (<20g carbs/day) and lost 10.5lbs in 2 weeks. I want to lose a stone so will continue til christmas ideally.

I don't want to deny myself 'normal' food at christmas as to me that wouldn't be christmas, I know a lot of people will say you can still low carb at christmas but I am choosing not to.

I'd like to be able to give myself christmas eve/christmas day/ boxing day to eat and drink what I'd like and then get back to low carbing.

I have MODY/T2 and have stopped all medication whilst doing my keto diet yet still my bloods are in the normal range (been checking regularly)

If I go back to carbs for a few days clearly I will go back on my meds/insulin although it may be a little tricky to get the exact insulin dose although i'll test and correct if necessary.

I'm hoping some of the more experienced low carbers may be able to answer the following:

1. What can I expect from coming out of ketosis back on to normal foods quite rapidly (and let's face it there will be some christmassy treats in there. And alcohol).

2. Am I better to phase my carbs back in, so eg I increase gradually a few days before?

3. Will I be more affected by alcohol if i'm in ketosis or just come out of it (there is the work christmas party this week, I will eat low carb but don't want to miss out on a few drinks)

4. Will be insulin requirements be MORE or LESS than befoer? I've lost 10lbs so I'm thinking I'll need less insulin... but if I've just come out of ketosis will my body be very carb sensitive and possibly need more to cope with an unexpected carb load?

Any other advice welcome. I know it's not ideal to go in and out of ketosis, but I've made a choice to relax my diet at christmas and have some treats for a few days, so just need to know how to go about 'damage limitation'.

Thanks

@the_anticarb First thing I'd say is, check with your diabetes team about stopping/starting insulin. You need to be careful and a 10lb weight loss won't make a big difference to the amount you need. Do you carb count?

Second thing is, if you're determined to carb it up over Chrissie, practice portion control. Have what you want, but just until you're satisfied. A spoonful of stuffing, a small slice of pudding. Don't feel deprived but listen to your body. We all tend to eat too much - I know I will! - but don't go overboard. If you're fat adapted it won't take long to get back into ketosis. A day or two isn't a disaster. Happy Chrissie!

 

[Resurgam]

If you want chocolate you can mix very dark chocolate and cream together and if necessary add sweetener - things taste sweeter after a while on low carb so you need to be careful not to overdo it You can pour it into paper cups or put small amounts on a tray from the fridge or roll small amounts in grated chocolate. You can make things called fat bombs in various flavours, there are dessert options too, also fairly low carb. If you research the options you should find that you can eat some delicious things and stay fairly low carb rather than opting for the things the shops sell.

 

[the_anticarb]

@the_anticarb First thing I'd say is, check with your diabetes team about stopping/starting insulin. You need to be careful and a 10lb weight loss won't make a big difference to the amount you need. Do you carb count?

Second thing is, if you're determined to carb it up over Chrissie, practice portion control. Have what you want, but just until you're satisfied. A spoonful of stuffing, a small slice of pudding. Don't feel deprived but listen to your body. We all tend to eat too much - I know I will! - but don't go overboard. If you're fat adapted it won't take long to get back into ketosis. A day or two isn't a disaster. Happy Chrissie!

Thanks - my diabetes team is rubbish they'll probably just say not to eat anything with sugar in! I get better advice from people on these boards, at least they live in the real world. Also I wasn't massively overweight to begin with only about a stone so 10lbs is probably a fair% of body weight for me, but I'll start back on my old doses and watch for hypos - at least there'll be nice hypo correction food around if I do go too low

 

[kittypoker]

Thanks - my diabetes team is rubbish they'll probably just say not to eat anything with sugar in! I get better advice from people on these boards, at least they live in the real world. Also I wasn't massively overweight to begin with only about a stone so 10lbs is probably a fair% of body weight for me, but I'll start back on my old doses and watch for hypos - at least there'll be nice hypo correction food around if I do go too low

Lol! Might be an idea to get a meter so you have more control. Diabetes is a ****** but a controllable ****** isn't QUITE as bad.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Lol! Might be an idea to get a meter so you have more control. Diabetes is a ****** but a controllable ****** isn't QUITE as bad.

I think you'll find that as an insulin user he will already have a meter.

 

[kittypoker]

I think you'll find that as an insulin user he will already have a meter.

You're quite right but the OP didn't mention testing so a reminder may not go amiss.

 

[Kristin251]

I find things I used to love don't taste nearly as good as I remembered. One small taste of something sweet is enough for me. I could never imagine eating a whole piece of something sweet anymore. My taste buds have seriously changed. I'd take a fat bomb anyday. Carbs create seriously uncontrollable carb cravings that I'll eat until ill but can't stop and I get all the symptoms @Brunneria gets. Not worth it or the anxiety of thinking about it or what it will do to my BS. It takes days to get back to normal once I spike.

I like your idea of moderating this year. It is amazing how high the spike can be when your body isn't used to it.

 

[kittypoker]

So, I've been hard keto dieting (<20g carbs/day) and lost 10.5lbs in 2 weeks. I want to lose a stone so will continue til christmas ideally.

I don't want to deny myself 'normal' food at christmas as to me that wouldn't be christmas, I know a lot of people will say you can still low carb at christmas but I am choosing not to.

I'd like to be able to give myself christmas eve/christmas day/ boxing day to eat and drink what I'd like and then get back to low carbing.

I have MODY/T2 and have stopped all medication whilst doing my keto diet yet still my bloods are in the normal range (been checking regularly)

If I go back to carbs for a few days clearly I will go back on my meds/insulin although it may be a little tricky to get the exact insulin dose although i'll test and correct if necessary.

I'm hoping some of the more experienced low carbers may be able to answer the following:

1. What can I expect from coming out of ketosis back on to normal foods quite rapidly (and let's face it there will be some christmassy treats in there. And alcohol).

2. Am I better to phase my carbs back in, so eg I increase gradually a few days before?

3. Will I be more affected by alcohol if i'm in ketosis or just come out of it (there is the work christmas party this week, I will eat low carb but don't want to miss out on a few drinks)

4. Will be insulin requirements be MORE or LESS than befoer? I've lost 10lbs so I'm thinking I'll need less insulin... but if I've just come out of ketosis will my body be very carb sensitive and possibly need more to cope with an unexpected carb load?

Any other advice welcome. I know it's not ideal to go in and out of ketosis, but I've made a choice to relax my diet at christmas and have some treats for a few days, so just need to know how to go about 'damage limitation'.

Thanks

Completely forgot to mention the booze! Where is my head?

You might feel the effects a bit earlier so take it easy and have a bottle of water here and there. The liver processes alcohol before food so no drinking on an empty tum. Hon, you'll be fine.