White pasta helps lose weight? Revealed

[JohnEGreen]

My only agenda is to control my blood sugars and therefore my diabetes and if possible help others to do so too thats it.

 

[kokhongw]

I do note that this site is evangelical about LCHF.

Given that there is no lack of mainstream information on low cal and low fat diet, I see little need to be apologetic about that.

 

[AloeSvea]

It's always fun and interesting to engage with you @Oldvatr ! .

Well, yes, Sweden is a democratic modern western nation which holds folks and even authorities with differing opinions. I attended a living with diabetes course in Stockholm, and absolutely - the emphasis was on my exciting journey to taking insulin. Complete with up front and personal sessions with syringes. (In NZ, to give us Kiwis credit, the up front and personal was with a blood glucose meter, just to compare and contrast, although NZ emphasises the imho ghastly glycemic load stuff nutritionally.) The session with the (very slender and attractive) Swedish dietician had a very strong long and popular focus on what bread to choose to eat. Even the softer sell (but perfectly good don't get me wrong) mediterranean diet was not mentioned there, although, it is in the printed diabetes info brochures. But I was impressed, as I have always been, with Swedish medical types to accept me not treating them as gods and engaging with them in the science. The chief endo and I agreed to disagree on the relative ease of living with 'dietary restrictions' versus the idea that the HCLF diet was normal and easier and T2 diabetics will all eventually be taking insulin injections, but the 1-1 session we had together was very civil and mutually respectful. (I thought, in fact, as I still do, that perhaps I had a more urgent and pertinent inroad to the answer to that question of relative ease, but that is my own bias.)

Back at the very large medical centre 'ground zero', my diabetes nurse was absolutely fabulous, and held and monitored group Newcastle diets/VLCD with diabetic patients, and accepted different 'ways of eating' as a matter of course as a way of dealing with T2D, and absolutely, LCHF as one of them. (Which is my own attitude - I am not a zealot nor a missionary - each to his own, 'chacun a son gout' and all that, absolutely - where food is concerned. Exercise choice too I might add!)

May I add here too that 'smorgasbord' (without the umlaut and little o dot) is a Swedish word . It's out there, food wise, on the table - you just choose what you want and what suits your wants and needs. Tidy and tasty. Excellent for T2 diabetics when it comes to choosing what to eat to live longer and better etc etc. (Even, and I struggle with this with family members and friends with metabolic dysfunction, when the choice is to go high carb.) (The latter is very pertinent to the pasta issue!)

My understanding and experience is that LCHF has been accepted in the sense, due to legal reasons, due to Dr Dahlqvist, ie the opposite of Poor Professor Noakes, and the Aussie chap who has fallen foul of authorities that I can't recall his name right now. When I lived in Stockholm there were two LCHF stores, and LCHF options in the groovier suburbs cafes were well evident by the time I got very sick and needed and found out about such dietary options. This makes Sweden unique re LCHF, I believe. Regardless of what is online.

I too googled 'LCHF in Sweden' and the best source I could see was the wonderful Kendrick on the topic, as in below. But I am biased.

http://foodmed.net/2016/11/kendrick-sweden-gets-it-right-with-idiot-dietitians-lchf/

When discussing food choices, and in this thread it would be whether or not pasta was a safe choice for us with diabetes, the word 'choice' is absolutely paramount. And my understanding is that LCHF is just one of many choices on the table for us.

In my own food world, the resistant starch, reheated pasta info is what I discuss with folks interested in maintaining non diabetic status, especially when there is an increased risk (my children! for instance. My daughter for instance, uses the resistant starch research to keep eating pasta and being healthy). My own health is too compromised with blood glucose dysregulation to take pasta in my diet in any kind of way. But I have chosen not to take the insulin syringes path mapped out for me. (Wish me luck!)

By the way - I was a pasta queen in my pre T2D life. With factory made pasta sauce. The cheese was just the condiment. Regularly on my menu and at my table. And here I am with severe insulin resistant type two. Sigh.

Do I wish I had known about LCHF when I first started experiencing insulin resistance 30 years ago? Oh yes.

It's nearly lunchtime! I must go eat something that's not going to kill me too quickly , ie low carb. Not pasta.

 

[Oldvatr]

It's always fun and interesting to engage with you @Oldvatr ! .

Well, yes, Sweden is a democratic modern western nation which holds folks and even authorities with differing opinions. I attended a living with diabetes course in Stockholm, and absolutely - the emphasis was on my exciting journey to taking insulin. Complete with up front and personal sessions with syringes. (In NZ, to give us Kiwis credit, the up front and personal was with a blood glucose meter, just to compare and contrast, although NZ emphasises the imho ghastly glycemic load stuff nutritionally.) The session with the (very slender and attractive) Swedish dietician had a very strong long and popular focus on what bread to choose to eat. Even the softer sell (but perfectly good don't get me wrong) mediterranean diet was not mentioned there, although, it is in the printed diabetes info brochures. But I was impressed, as I have always been, with Swedish medical types to accept me not treating them as gods and engaging with them in the science. The chief endo and I agreed to disagree on the relative ease of living with 'dietary restrictions' versus the idea that the HCLF diet was normal and easier and T2 diabetics will all eventually be taking insulin injections, but the 1-1 session we had together was very civil and mutually respectful. (I thought, in fact, as I still do, that perhaps I had a more urgent and pertinent inroad to the answer to that question of relative ease, but that is my own bias.)

Back at the very large medical centre 'ground zero', my diabetes nurse was absolutely fabulous, and held and monitored group Newcastle diets/VLCD with diabetic patients, and accepted different 'ways of eating' as a matter of course as a way of dealing with T2D, and absolutely, LCHF as one of them. (Which is my own attitude - I am not a zealot nor a missionary - each to his own, 'chacun a son gout' and all that, absolutely - where food is concerned. Exercise choice too I might add!)

May I add here too that 'smorgasbord' (without the umlaut and little o dot) is a Swedish word . It's out there, food wise, on the table - you just choose what you want and what suits your wants and needs. Tidy and tasty. Excellent for T2 diabetics when it comes to choosing what to eat to live longer and better etc etc. (Even, and I struggle with this with family members and friends with metabolic dysfunction, when the choice is to go high carb.) (The latter is very pertinent to the pasta issue!)

My understanding and experience is that LCHF has been accepted in the sense, due to legal reasons, due to Dr Dahlqvist, ie the opposite of Poor Professor Noakes, and the Aussie chap who has fallen foul of authorities that I can't recall his name right now. When I lived in Stockholm there were two LCHF stores, and LCHF options in the groovier suburbs cafes were well evident by the time I got very sick and needed and found out about such dietary options. This makes Sweden unique re LCHF, I believe. Regardless of what is online.

I too googled 'LCHF in Sweden' and the best source I could see was the wonderful Kendrick on the topic, as in below. But I am biased.

http://foodmed.net/2016/11/kendrick-sweden-gets-it-right-with-idiot-dietitians-lchf/

When discussing food choices, and in this thread it would be whether or not pasta was a safe choice for us with diabetes, the word 'choice' is absolutely paramount. And my understanding is that LCHF is just one of many choices on the table for us.

In my own food world, the resistant starch, reheated pasta info is what I discuss with folks interested in maintaining non diabetic status, especially when there is an increased risk (my children! for instance. My daughter for instance, uses the resistant starch research to keep eating pasta and being healthy). My own health is too compromised with blood glucose dysregulation to take pasta in my diet in any kind of way. But I have chosen not to take the insulin syringes path mapped out for me. (Wish me luck!)

By the way - I was a pasta queen in my pre T2D life. With factory made pasta sauce. The cheese was just the condiment. Regularly on my menu and at my table. And here I am with severe insulin resistant type two. Sigh.

Do I wish I had known about LCHF when I first started experiencing insulin resistance 30 years ago? Oh yes.

It's nearly lunchtime! I must go eat something that's not going to kill me too quickly , ie low carb. Not pasta.

When William Banting first formulated his LC approach to diets, it was used primarily as a treatment for epileptic children not diabetes at all. It is I believe still used for that purpose, But then the Swedish took it to the next level and developed it into LCHF.

It took off in Sweden, and frightened the authorities so much that they initially tried to ban it, and then made sure it was rejected in any official capacity, It still grew in popularity as a weight loss (i,e, non medical) diet much like Atkins did ( which is also a keto diet plan), and then the connection to bgl control was made and recently the connection to high insulin levels and IR. So our knowledge in how and why to use an LC / keto diet for diabetes has blossomed, Much of this research was done in Australia and South Africa, It has recently spread to other centres around the world, but England dear England that blessed isle is sadly running behind at the back of the race. ( I forget what they call the stragglers in an athletic contest. Is it Rump? The Pelaton is the front end) But the Swedes led the way for some time, so we owe them a big Thank You.

One observation I think could be made for pasta and diabetics is that it is very definitely contrary for anyone wanting to achieve ketosis, It is dubious for diabetics using GI control type of diet, but can be helpful to anyone using Pioppi, or Mediterranean or South Beach diets for bgl control or weight loss. [ and of course it fits in perfectly with Eatwell#1 and Eatwell #2] We are I believe talking pasta with a home made sauce, not a premade glop in a jar or tin or TV dinner, where other factors need to be considered,

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Mt Picky thinks the Peleton is the first main bunch of riders with possibly one ore more breakaways in front.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Given that there is no lack of mainstream information on low cal and low fat diet, I see little need to be apologetic about that.

The point is that an overly evangelical approach combined with an inability to accept other options is driving some people away from this site.

People we could help without them going down the LCHF route.

People who could help this site take a balanced view.

If people who don't want to follow LCHF are effectively driven away from this site we are all losers.

 

[phoenix]

When William Banting first formulated his LC approach to diets, it was used primarily as a treatment for epileptic children not diabetes at all. It is I believe still used

Brief interjection. You may like to investigate Banting's diet .It still included a fair amount of dry toast (he considered butter contained 'saccherine matter' )some fruit and a 'rusk or two' together with what today would be considered an immoderate amount of alcohol.If you work out his intake, a large amount of his daily calories were from the latter. Unsurprisingly he says he slept well on his diet!
https://archive.org/stream/9213277.nlm.nih.gov/9213277#page/n14/mode/1up
Now back to lurk mode. I agree with many of your points which is why I sit on my hands and very rarely post here anymore.

 

[Oldvatr]

Brief interjection. You may like to investigate Banting's diet .It still included a fair amount of dry toast (he considered butter contained 'saccherine matter' )some fruit and a 'rusk or two' together with what today would be considered an immoderate amount of alcohol.If you work out his intake, a large amount of his daily calories were from the latter. Unsurprisingly he says he slept well on his diet!
https://archive.org/stream/9213277.nlm.nih.gov/9213277#page/n14/mode/1up
Now back to lurk mode. I agree with many of your points which is why I sit on my hands and very rarely post here anymore.

I think when Banting was involved (and alive) the classification of diabetes was not as delineated as it is today, There was no proper treatment for T1D in those days until Frederick Banting discovered the way to isolate and produce insulin from animals, and so there was not much progress until later, So the LC part may have been triggered by William, but I think the link to diabetes was probably down to others to experiment with. Having said that, the diet he proposed could well be considered useful for T1D and T2D on insulin as it stood, and indeed there was a pamphlet for nurses printed in the 30's that advocates this as treatment, (shared in another post on this forum last year). So it seems that the LC revolution was accepted back then but got bypassed and demonized more recently as medicine switched to the drugs big time after the war.

There is no stigma to lurking, It has many adherents on this site who go unannounced. By sharing the info and discussion here we hope to provide the info that will be useful for all, not just the vociferous ones here.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes we do all have different lives, bodies, taste, and approaches to food, medicine, and other health considerations too sometimes, and this site would be a sorrier place indeed if folks were scared off due to an evangelical approach to what we eat. Quite right @Oldvatr.

I would absolutely love to still be eating pasta - but my ol' diabetic bod cries out, "NO NO NO" . The beauty of blood glucose meters is you can see how one's poor ol' diabetic bod takes to different foods, for sure. Even pasta that has been cooled and reheated, alas, for me, is a spiker. Tied into that is I have no problem maintaining a 'normal' body weight now, which was not the case back in my pre-diagnosis pasta-eating days. But I just look at carby food and I put on weight. I am though clearly very insulin resistance prone.

And I definitely make my own red sauces again now, post diagnosis. I found a great pasta substitute, made from konjak root, or I slice up zucchini and fry them in coconut oil (which I prefer to the fake spag actually, but sometimes it's great just to open a packet.) Perfect for mixing in a good serving of sardines or tuna - my fave omega-3 sources, and tasty too. Zoodles (as in zucchini noodles) and red sauce with parmesan on top - still a great go-to dish for any time of the year. Mmmmmm. Mama Mia!

 

[Oldvatr]

Yes we do all have different lives, bodies, taste, and approaches to food, medicine, and other health considerations too sometimes, and this site would be a sorrier place indeed if folks were scared off due to an evangelical approach to what we eat. Quite right @Oldvatr.

I would absolutely love to still be eating pasta - but my ol' diabetic bod cries out, "NO NO NO" . The beauty of blood glucose meters is you can see how one's poor ol' diabetic bod takes to different foods, for sure. Even pasta that has been cooled and reheated, alas, for me, is a spiker. Tied into that is I have no problem maintaining a 'normal' body weight now, which was not the case back in my pre-diagnosis pasta-eating days. But I just look at carby food and I put on weight. I am though clearly very insulin resistance prone.

And I definitely make my own red sauces again now, post diagnosis. I found a great pasta substitute, made from konjak root, or I slice up zucchini and fry them in coconut oil (which I prefer to the fake spag actually, but sometimes it's great just to open a packet.) Perfect for mixing in a good serving of sardines or tuna - my fave omega-3 sources, and tasty too. Zoodles (as in zucchini noodles) and red sauce with parmesan on top - still a great go-to dish for any time of the year. Mmmmmm. Mama Mia!

Zoodles is just right for my version of Piopi diet which is a cross between Mediterranean and a keto diet. Haven't tried konjak root, but have heard of it, Not available in my area, I suspect.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes, availability of great substitutes to formerly beloved carby food is an issue for sure. When I was in the supermarket yesterday I did contemplate how far afield I must go to get my 'special' food items. And it is pretty far! (Not the konjak root sub though, thankfully. Stocked up on it then and there.) Although I had to go to much greater lengths to get my daughter's favourite gingerbread easter cookies just this easter past. So it's all relative? And in a good cause.

I am right at this moment watching a kereru/native wood pigeon braving meeting up with one of my cats and going for their beloved nikau berries on a palm outside my window. I help the endangered-species birds by putting anti predation collars on the cats, which helps the birds in this battle with the odds. But those sweet berries are a big lure to courage indeed! (yes, I ate one of the gingerbread cookies myself! Will do every easter. Just in case you think me too evangelical .)

 

[JohnEGreen]

Zoodles is just right for my version of Piopi diet which is a cross between Mediterranean and a keto diet. Haven't tried konjak root, but have heard of it, Not available in my area, I suspect.

It's surprising what you can find these days.

https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/gluco...MI7vDU98-12gIV7rvtCh07Xg8fEAQYAyABEgKfmPD_BwE

 

[Oldvatr]

It's surprising what you can find these days.

https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/gluco...MI7vDU98-12gIV7rvtCh07Xg8fEAQYAyABEgKfmPD_BwE

Now I know it is also called Glucomanan that makes it easier to find at the normal suspects. Thank you.

 

[Guzzler]

When all said and done I could think of nicer, better tasting and more nutritious foods to spend my carb allowance on. Just sayin'.

 

[kokhongw]

The point is that an overly evangelical approach combined with an inability to accept other options is driving some people away from this site.

People we could help without them going down the LCHF route.

People who could help this site take a balanced view.

If people who don't want to follow LCHF are effectively driven away from this site we are all losers.

I disagree.

Those who choose to leave and disengage from the forum are those who have decided to closed their minds and lost out in hearing balanced views.

By continually remaining actively engaged, we have to constantly re-evaluate and re-validate our own experience against others who may have differing views/experiences.

 

[Oldvatr]

I disagree.

Those who choose to leave and disengage from the forum are those who have decided to closed their minds and lost out in hearing balanced views.

By continually remaining actively engaged, we have to constantly re-evaluate and re-validate our own experience against others who may have differing views/experiences.

I agree with your second point about remaining engaged to update our minds as new data becomes available, but I have a problem with your assertion that people leaving do so with closed minds. I am not sure quite what point you are making here. Is it that they leave because their minds are already as closed up to new ideas as those following LCHF are said to be? I think that would be an assumption too far.

I suspect it is that. as others have said, sometimes followers of particular lifestyles have a fervour and bullishness that can appear to be brusque and rude and unwelcoming. I know I can be this way sometimes (Mea culpa).

 

[ickihun]

Nothing wrong with singing off the roof tops when an excellent tool is discovered to help with our diabetic fight.

Like I've said before "it's not what is said but HOW it's said".

Low carbing is great for instant satisfaction and results.
Diabetes is about how we average, always has been.
Lifestyle permanent changes are to be maintained, forever. Or as close as we can get it.
Egg sized pasta salad or large packets of nuts. It's always been about small portioned but variable diet. To ensure all nutrients are covered or supplements and basic diet.
Those foods which cause more influence on our bgs to be kept small, like alcohol or meds too.

I'm on insulin only for my diabetes now so reduce it gives me the whole picture rather than a jigsaw puzzle.
Weight loss for me has to be the priority then revising long term. Without weight loss for me, there is no long term.
If low carbing does both then a win win.

We are all different. Someone not overweight has different goals.
Maintenence is always going to be the hardest job.
As long as we know where we're going, it will be fine.