Lager ... Or red wine ?

[Alanjo99]

Wife's birthday tomorrow , what is the best option for drinks for myself ?

A couple of pints of lager or a few red wines ?

Ta in advance

 

[xfieldok]

Wine, wine,wine.

 

[urbanracer]

To get drunk or control glucose levels?

Ok seriously! Red wine has around 4grams of carbohydrate in a (normal size) glass.
Lager contains around 15g per pint, light beers can be 10g or lower so check the labels.

Generally - wine is probably better for glucose control AND it has less chemicals in it.

 

[ianf0ster]

It doesn't have to be red wine. Dry Champagne type wines are extremely low arb. I celebrate my birthday and New Years that way.
I drink red wine at weekends the rest of the time.

 

[Nicole T]

It depends on how resolutely you're avoiding carbs, how badly they spike your blood sugar, and how much you fancy beer over the alternatives.

I've calculated the 440ml cans of Carling that I have to be 10.5g each. Putting that in perspective, that's 2/3 of a slice of white bread, or 33g of pasta per can. If I have my calculations right, anyway.

I went out with friends last night and had a mixed grill, including a small portion of chips and a tomato (but all other food items zero carbs.) I also had two pints of Carling. I tested 5.5, 2 hours later.

 

[Buzzer81]

It depends on how resolutely you're avoiding carbs, how badly they spike your blood sugar, and how much you fancy beer over the alternatives.

I've calculated the 440ml cans of Carling that I have to be 10.5g each. Putting that in perspective, that's 2/3 of a slice of white bread, or 33g of pasta per can. If I have my calculations right, anyway.

I went out with friends last night and had a mixed grill, including a small portion of chips and a tomato (but all other food items zero carbs.) I also had two pints of Carling. I tested 5.5, 2 hours later.

Wow, that’s low. I wonder how you managed that? Is there something to do with the body processing the alcohol first which causes a later spike? Or have I got that wrong?

 

[HSSS]

I went out with friends last night and had a mixed grill, including a small portion of chips and a tomato (but all other food items zero carbs.) I also had two pints of Carling. I tested 5.5, 2 hours later.

Wow, that’s low. I wonder how you managed that? Is there something to do with the body processing the alcohol first which causes a later spike? Or have I got that wrong?

Did you test past the 2 hr mark? Any difference today?

The carling is more than double the wine round for round. If you’re aware of that and it works for you fine, but the lower carb option is the wine every time. Spirits with appropriate non sugar mixer is another option that’s lower than beer (liquid bread anyone?)

 

[shamrock69]

lager is just like liquid bread..personally i could not drink any as my glucose levels would shoot up like a rocket.
They recommend spirits like gin,vodka etc with either soda water or a diet soda.
Red wine im sure is a good alternative in small amounts

 

[JohnEGreen]

Red wine every time or a nice single malt whisky.

 

[Nicole T]

Did you test past the 2 hr mark? Any difference today?

The carling is more than double the wine round for round. If you’re aware of that and it works for you fine, but the lower carb option is the wine every time. Spirits with appropriate non sugar mixer is another option that’s lower than beer (liquid bread anyone?)

I'm generally just testing first thing in the morning and 90 minutes to 2 hours after lunch and evening meal. I sometimes test before bed, but didn't that night. Last night, 2 hours after food, but while actually drinking my second can of beer, I tested a 7.0. My highest result in over a week.

My diet has been appalling during lockdown. 3 months of house arrest, and I was constantly stuffing myself with bread and chocolate, out of boredom and despondency. The diabetes test was totally unexpected (I needed different antibiotics for a water infection because my usual ones weren't working, my GP insisted in a urine test which, as always, was inconclusive with respect to the infection, but did show sugar.) If I'd known it was coming, I'd probably have eaten differently. Instead, it was a case of "Daren't go shopping for healthy snacks, but look, Amazon will deliver a 2.4Kg box of Celebrations for 20 quid." I got through 3 boxes of those during lockdown, as well as still buying Jaffa Cakes, Kit-Kats and Aldi's fake Mars/Snickers bars when I actually did go shopping. Oh, and it was normal for me to get through a box of Toffifee or a whole Chocolate Orange, watching a movie of an evening.

So I'm rather hoping my A1c figure isn't really representative of my norms, and that I actually don't have this as badly as the recent tests show. I think my real issue has been a massive excess of carbs over healthy norms, over the last few months. Probably at least 2 times the RDA for the last couple of years, and maybe as much as 4 times as a coping mechanism for lockdown. So maybe I handle the carb spike of a couple of pints of lager a lot better than many others might.

That said, as a numbers game and with a lot of people happy on just over 100g of carbs a day, 10g of carbs per can isn't a massive amount in the grand scheme of things, unless you're having lots of them. They probably hit hard and fast because they're in liquid form, but surely its effect on average levels is the same, regardless.

I'm generally happy on 3 cans right now. If I open a bottle of wine, I'll finish it. 5.4 units vs 10 (for a bottle of 12.5% wine.) So lager works better for me on the alcohol units front. I am drinking gin and slimline tonic, too, but I get bored with it. Especially since I'm drinking the slimline tonic without the gin while doing 'dry during the week.'

 

[HSSS]

I'm generally just testing first thing in the morning and 90 minutes to 2 hours after lunch and evening meal. I sometimes test before bed, but didn't that night. Last night, 2 hours after food, but while actually drinking my second can of beer, I tested a 7.0. My highest result in over a week.

My diet has been appalling during lockdown. 3 months of house arrest, and I was constantly stuffing myself with bread and chocolate, out of boredom and despondency. The diabetes test was totally unexpected (I needed different antibiotics for a water infection because my usual ones weren't working, my GP insisted in a urine test which, as always, was inconclusive with respect to the infection, but did show sugar.) If I'd known it was coming, I'd probably have eaten differently. Instead, it was a case of "Daren't go shopping for healthy snacks, but look, Amazon will deliver a 2.4Kg box of Celebrations for 20 quid." I got through 3 boxes of those during lockdown, as well as still buying Jaffa Cakes, Kit-Kats and Aldi's fake Mars/Snickers bars when I actually did go shopping. Oh, and it was normal for me to get through a box of Toffifee or a whole Chocolate Orange, watching a movie of an evening.

So I'm rather hoping my A1c figure isn't really representative of my norms, and that I actually don't have this as badly as the recent tests show. I think my real issue has been a massive excess of carbs over healthy norms, over the last few months. Probably at least 2 times the RDA for the last couple of years, and maybe as much as 4 times as a coping mechanism for lockdown. So maybe I handle the carb spike of a couple of pints of lager a lot better than many others might.

That said, as a numbers game and with a lot of people happy on just over 100g of carbs a day, 10g of carbs per can isn't a massive amount in the grand scheme of things, unless you're having lots of them. They probably hit hard and fast because they're in liquid form, but surely its effect on average levels is the same, regardless.

I'm generally happy on 3 cans right now. If I open a bottle of wine, I'll finish it. 5.4 units vs 10 (for a bottle of 12.5% wine.) So lager works better for me on the alcohol units front. I am drinking gin and slimline tonic, too, but I get bored with it. Especially since I'm drinking the slimline tonic without the gin while doing 'dry during the week.'

My point was alcohol temporarily lowers bgl as the liver is busy dealing with the alcohol first. The rise from the carbs in the food and alcohol comes later once the booze is dealt with. So the alcohol “masks” the carbs for a while and unless you test later you won’t see that. Alcohol, also contributes to fatty liver which makes processing carbs less efficient. 30 g of carbs in 3 cans of otherwise nutrient empty liquid is still 30g of carbs.

Fast Carbs means you reach higher levels, although maybe for a shorter time. This means more potential for damage by those high levels. Slow means not so high levels although perhaps for longer, reducing damage potential. Our insulin isn’t very effective so it will have a better chance of dealing with the drip feed of slow carbs better than rush of fast ones. This is the basis of being told to eat complex carbs. Yes better than fast. Even better is not to stress the body with eating/drinking an excess either way and not raise levels too much for any length of time.

If you’ve temporarily been eating extra carbs and are not diabetic then your body would process them and hb1ac would remain unaffected. It has risen because you failed to process them. Denial is strong in most of us at diagnosis. I had a million reasons why I became diabetic. Some may indeed have been contributing factors but the result was the same. I was diabetic.

That all said maybe you are able to cope with higher carb amounts than some of us can. We are indeed individual in that regards.

 

[Nicole T]

My point was alcohol temporarily lowers bgl as the liver is busy dealing with the alcohol first. The rise from the carbs in the food and alcohol comes later once the booze is dealt with. So the alcohol “masks” the carbs for a while and unless you test later you won’t see that. Alcohol, also contributes to fatty liver which makes processing carbs less efficient. 30 g of carbs in 3 cans of otherwise nutrient empty liquid is still 30g of carbs.

Fast Carbs means you reach higher levels, although maybe for a shorter time. This means more potential for damage by those high levels. Slow means not so high levels although perhaps for longer, reducing damage potential. Our insulin isn’t very effective so it will have a better chance of dealing with the drip feed of slow carbs better than rush of fast ones. This is the basis of being told to eat complex carbs. Yes better than fast. Even better is not to stress the body with eating/drinking an excess either way and not raise levels too much for any length of time.

If you’ve temporarily been eating extra carbs and are not diabetic then your body would process them and hb1ac would remain unaffected. It has risen because you failed to process them. Denial is strong in most of us at diagnosis. I had a million reasons why I became diabetic. Some may indeed have been contributing factors but the result was the same. I was diabetic.

That all said maybe you are able to cope with higher carb amounts than some of us can. We are indeed individual in that regards.

No denial here. Just the hope that the A1c readings they got aren't representative of my true average if I were to eat a sensible, though not necessarily low carb diet. Within 24 hours of cutting out chocolate, the thirst and excess urination were gone. Perhaps my true figure is low 50s, for example. With low carb, I hope to get below 48 on my next test. I'm probably averaging high 5's on my meter readings, down from 11 or 12 after eating bread, so that should be achievable.

Below 11.1 is normal for a non-diabetic on a random test, according to the following link. I don't think I'm spiking myself dangerously high if I haven't had a meter reading over 7.5 since radically reducing carbs from a previously stupid level. Some of those readings have been just before bed, having consumed 6 to 8 units of alcohol earlier in the evening. I may, as an experiment tonight, have a few beers and test at 4 hours as well as 2.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

Right now, it's only my morning fasting readings that are in the pre-diabetic range. My others (apart from the single 7.0, while actually drinking) are all non-diabetic. I don't think that's bad progress in 2 weeks. Though I'm not kidding myself for a minute that I can go back to eating whatever I want and expect to maintain these levels.

From what I've observed, beer seems to give me the carb hit right away, with the sugar depressing function of the alcohol manifesting later on. Perhaps it doesn't work like that for everyone, or perhaps I've misinterpreted what's going on. I do tend to get my lowest morning levels when I've had a drink the night before.

 

[HSSS]

Just the hope that the A1c readings they got aren't representative of my true average if I were to eat a sensible, though not necessarily low carb diet.

They were a true representation of what was happening then.

Changing your diet is controlling/managing your diabetes - just with diet as opposed to with medication - but yes that control should bring down the hb1ac and give a new true representation of your improved lifestyle. And it seems you are achieving that from the meter readings you’re getting. Well done.

 

[Nicole T]

They were a true representation of what was happening then.

Changing your diet is controlling/managing your diabetes - just with diet as opposed to with medication - but yes that control should bring down the hb1ac and give a new true representation of your improved lifestyle. And it seems you are achieving that from the meter readings you’re getting. Well done.

Indeed, they were a true average of what had probably been going on for a couple of years. Given the amount of junk I was eating (pigging out on chocolate and not caring because I wasn't putting weight on) I don't feel they are likely to represent what my figures would be on a sensible non-diabetic, average carbs and calories diet. The million dollar question is whether I can reintroduce carbs, and at what levels. I was naughty and had chips with my mixed grill the other night, but they didn't upset my readings at all.

Clouds and silver linings. I'm trying to see this as the kick up the backside I needed to stop eating masses of junk, to get a moderate amount of exercise, and to start losing a bit more weight. But if I can make room for things I enjoy (a beer very much being one of them) then I'll do that.

 

[HSSS]

Indeed, they were a true average of what had probably been going on for a couple of years. Given the amount of junk I was eating (pigging out on chocolate and not caring because I wasn't putting weight on) I don't feel they are likely to represent what my figures would be on a sensible non-diabetic, average carbs and calories diet. The million dollar question is whether I can reintroduce carbs, and at what levels. I was naughty and had chips with my mixed grill the other night, but they didn't upset my readings at all.

Clouds and silver linings. I'm trying to see this as the kick up the backside I needed to stop eating masses of junk, to get a moderate amount of exercise, and to start losing a bit more weight. But if I can make room for things I enjoy (a beer very much being one of them) then I'll do that.

Still missing the point. If you weren’t diabetic it wouldn’t have shown up in your hb1ac at all. Your body would have dealt with it. Some very large people with awful diets get normal hb1ac’s.

Also remember the effect of the chips didn’t show in that single, with alcohol possibly reducing the numbers, reading. More tests will tell the accuracy of your isolated test in this respect. Try it again without alcohol and try it at more intervals than just the 2hr reading. Then you can be confident.

If you’re lucky you won’t have to do too much to control it and you’ll get normal numbers quite easily. Only time will tell but it does sound like the next test will be a substantial improvement. .

 

[Nicole T]

Still missing the point. If you weren’t diabetic it wouldn’t have shown up in your hb1ac at all. Your body would have dealt with it. Some very large people with awful diets get normal hb1ac’s.

Also remember the effect of the chips didn’t show in that single, with alcohol possibly reducing the numbers, reading. More tests will tell the accuracy of your isolated test in this respect. Try it again without alcohol and try it at more intervals than just the 2hr reading. Then you can be confident.

If you’re lucky you won’t have to do too much to control it and you’ll get normal numbers quite easily. Only time will tell but it does sound like the next test will be a substantial improvement. .

You still seem to think I'm in denial about having Type 2. I've twice had readings of over 11 before going low carb, which is a positive diagnosis of itself. I fully accept that I have the condition, and that I am now committed to a lifetime of watching what I eat.

Clearly the A1c result matters, and the lower it is, the better. Given that cutting out chocolate immediately stopped the dehydration and excess urination symptoms, I think it's reasonable to conclude that this action lowered my peak levels, and would therefore lower my average levels over time. If I'd cut out the chocolate 3 months before my tests, I believe I'd have got a better result. Perhaps considerably so. That's all I'm trying to say here.

We seem to be arriving at the same conclusion but from different directions: I'm going to need to experiment with food and drink to find out what I can get away with, while still maintaining pre-diabetic, or preferably non-diabetic readings.

 

[HSSS]

You still seem to think I'm in denial about having Type 2. I've twice had readings of over 11 before going low carb, which is a positive diagnosis of itself. I fully accept that I have the condition, and that I am now committed to a lifetime of watching what I eat.

Clearly the A1c result matters, and the lower it is, the better. Given that cutting out chocolate immediately stopped the dehydration and excess urination symptoms, I think it's reasonable to conclude that this action lowered my peak levels, and would therefore lower my average levels over time. If I'd cut out the chocolate 3 months before my tests, I believe I'd have got a better result. Perhaps considerably so. That's all I'm trying to say here.

We seem to be arriving at the same conclusion but from different directions: I'm going to need to experiment with food and drink to find out what I can get away with, while still maintaining pre-diabetic, or preferably non-diabetic readings.

I guess it’s the comments about it not being true readings, not being representative of your real normals etc etc that made me think you’re in denial. Of course if most of us knew what was coming we’d have made the changes, we later made, earlier.

The readings we got are real and represent where we were at that point in time however we got there. But as you are finding it’s not fixed and we can improve the numbers. Yes by doing it later we’ve got the label we wouldn’t have got if we’d done it earlier, but it is just a label and perhaps a reminder to stay the course and make the improvement permanent or risk being back where we were at diagnosis. Whatever malfunctioned with regards to carbs the first time is still there waiting to resurface if we go back to our old situation.

 

[Ronancastled]

We are all different. I gave up testing after alcohol when I was in the 4's an hour after 3 pints of Guiness and spaghetti meatballs. Alcohol is said to decrease insulin sensitivity though so all things in moderation

 

[copilost]

I'm going to need to experiment with food and drink

this really. my health professionals don't believe I wasn't eating like you describe, they think I changed my (undisclosed) habits and cut the chocolate, biscuits and cake I wasn't (and never have) eaten. I'm clearly sensitive to sugar and savoury sugar (wheat, rice etc) did for me. I agree that your normal is very different from my normal. But would stress sugar is sugar, the body doesn't care if it's Toblerone or pasta with pesto. this was a big "oh really" moment for me. all the blurb we get is about bad sugars (sweeties) and bad fat (all!) it's far too limited. your T2 diagnosis is an opportunity to work out what all this stuff does to you.
on an aside I really like your "true that" disclosure (you make me smile).

 

[Nicole T]

this really. my health professionals don't believe I wasn't eating like you describe, they think I changed my (undisclosed) habits and cut the chocolate, biscuits and cake I wasn't (and never have) eaten. I'm clearly sensitive to sugar and savoury sugar (wheat, rice etc) did for me. I agree that your normal is very different from my normal. But would stress sugar is sugar, the body doesn't care if it's Toblerone or pasta with pesto. this was a big "oh really" moment for me. all the blurb we get is about bad sugars (sweeties) and bad fat (all!) it's far too limited. your T2 diagnosis is an opportunity to work out what all this stuff does to you.
on an aside I really like your "true that" disclosure (you make me smile).

I did go nuts with chocolate over lockdown, and had been eating excess amounts of sweet stuff for quite a while. But it's a huge revelation to me too that sugar is basically pure carbohydrate, and that all non-fibre carbs are as bad as each other. I always thought I was being really good having a small amount of chilli with a lot of rice or a small amount of bolognaise with a lot of pasta. This has turned that kind of thinking on its head. And I was treating bread as a total no penalty food, at one point having 4 slices of toast for breakfast and 4 slices as two sandwiches for lunch. I wasn't putting on weight, so how much damage could I be doing?

The real kicker? The alcohol free beer that I'd been drinking during the week (being good, avoiding alcohol) has as many carbs in one 330ml can as two 440ml cans of Carling. So in 'being good' and avoiding alcohol, I was actually fairly drastically increasing my carb intake. I am going to do an experiment with some of those one evening, to see just how badly 3 or 4 cans spike me.