Added medication

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
I found out I was T2 (steroid induced) in March, I had DKA and sepsis, came out 3 weeks later on metformin 500mg, but was discharged early because they wanted everyone out they could. After about 10 days and still high BG 10-15 they added in a second dose, which rapidly became 2 tablets twice a day. With only just a slight improvement BG 9-12 and a sudden rapid increase in BG to 12-19 with 1 yesterday at 24.3, the consultant has added in Gliclazide 1/2 tablet in morning which I start tomorrow, they’ve warned me about possible hypo’s which is ok (sort of) I was just wondering if others who have been down this journey before me. I’m doing an almost keto diet with 20-25 carbohydrates but this obviously alone was sorting it, I’m just wondering what to expect tomorrow with first dose. :(
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,650
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
If you are still on steroids the Gliclazide should help. If you have stopped them and still have high BS you might need to ask for the two tests for T1.
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I was on glicazide for steroids and they didn't work for me. I dropped the glic and went on insulin. Weaning off the steroids now.
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
If you are still on steroids the Gliclazide should help. If you have stopped them and still have high BS you might need to ask for the two tests for T1.
They want to avoid insulin for as long as possible, when I came out of DKA I was told I’d be on insulin but for whatever reason they changed their minds. I have this feeling that that’s were I’m headed but I know they are trying everything to delay it, the consultant is ringing in about 2 weeks unless this does nothing or my BG goes over 20 too often. Before this I could go from 10mg prednisone up to 40 or 50mg overnight but now I need to be hospitalised if that happens.
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I am on prednisolone. I have been reducing down fro 40 and now on 7mg. I am not currently taking insulin, however, I found that after reducing, there is about a 2 week delay and I get a sudden spike and I have to take it again. The 2 week delay has been consistent during the reduction period.

The nurses at the surgery didn't have a clue. Eventually, they told me that a Specialist Diabetic Nurse visited the surgery every month. She knew exactly where I was coming from, together we sorted it out. I ended up on 2 types of insulin. One I took at the same time as the steroids, and the other for correcting it later on.

I was eating keto before and durig the steroids, so the injections had nothing to do with food. I used fingerpricks but more importantly the libre, to monitor my bloods.
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
I am on prednisolone. I have been reducing down fro 40 and now on 7mg. I am not currently taking insulin, however, I found that after reducing, there is about a 2 week delay and I get a sudden spike and I have to take it again. The 2 week delay has been consistent during the reduction period.

The nurses at the surgery didn't have a clue. Eventually, they told me that a Specialist Diabetic Nurse visited the surgery every month. She knew exactly where I was coming from, together we sorted it out. I ended up on 2 types of insulin. One I took at the same time as the steroids, and the other for correcting it later on.

I was eating keto before and durig the steroids, so the injections had nothing to do with food. I used fingerpricks but more importantly the libre, to monitor my bloods.

GP had no clue and said he didn’t know why the hospital had me on metformin because my A1c is below ‘diabetic’ but the specialist nurse said my A1c is all over the place because I’m anaemic and have all sorts of inflammatory makers too, they asked for consultant input because they didn’t know whether to go just for insulin or try something else first. They want more blood tests done at the hospital and want to involve haematology too, I was suppose to see endo in April but of course that didn’t happen. I’ve taken this gliclazide this morning and keeping my fingers cross my morning BG was 14.9 so really hoping for better result at lunch time
 

Antje77

Oracle
Retired Moderator
Messages
19,420
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
GP had no clue and said he didn’t know why the hospital had me on metformin because my A1c is below ‘diabetic’ but the specialist nurse said my A1c is all over the place because I’m anaemic
I think they usually do a fructosamine test instead of a hba1c for people who are aneamic. A hba1c wouldn't make sense, as it gives a false low result.
 

JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,231
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Tripe and Onions
I have been taking preds for a long time, now down from 40 mg per day to 15 mg neuro says no lower.
Was put on Azathioprine as a prednisolone sparing medication ended up taking both for about three years until it became obvious that Azathioprine was actually quite dangerous for me and it was stopped.

Preds make it very difficult to control blood sugars and insulin is normally the therapy of choice though I have never been offered it. I keep my blood sugars low by very strict control of carbs and calories it's a drag and makes me very low on energy a lot of the time.

This gives some insight into the effects of steroids
"
Glucocorticoids

Glucocorticoids are widely used medications and clinical experience indicates that diabetes is a frequent side effect. Ingle first reported glucosuria in rats receiving glucocorticoid.1 A human retrospective epidemiological study of adult Medicaid patients carried out over 9 years identified almost 12 000 persons with new onset diabetes and closely matched controls which did not develop diabetes. Patients who were taking glucocorticoid were more likely to be in the diabetes group (relative risk 2.23) and the relative risk was dose dependent.2 One intuitive hypothesis for the mechanism by which glucocorticoids cause diabetes is development of insulin resistance. To test this hypothesis, hyperinsulinemic‐euglycemic clamps with tritiated glucose tracer were performed on 10 healthy subjects after 7 d of placebo and after 7 d of prednisolone.3 This study demonstrated that prednisolone induced insulin resistance in liver, muscle, and adipose tissue by decreasing the ability to suppress hepatic gluconeogenesis, as well as by decreasing peripheral glucose disposal in muscle and adipose tissue. There are multiple plausible biochemical mechanisms for development of insulin resistance in the postreceptor insulin‐signaling pathways in all tissues (reviewed by van Raalte4). In addition, there is evidence for decreased insulin‐induced vasodilation in muscle leading to reduced glucose delivery to muscle beds, reducing the opportunity for muscle to clear glucose from the blood.4
Glucocorticoids also have additional direct effects on release of insulin from beta cells.5 Six healthy subjects were given three mixed meal challenges at baseline on day 1, 2 h after 75 mg of prednisolone on day 2 and without any additional prednisolone on day 3. Plasma glucose was elevated during the day 2 challenge, but c‐peptide was unchanged from baseline suggesting that the beta cells were unable to release additional insulin to overcome the peripheral insulin resistance resulting from the acute exposure to glucocorticoid. There are also a number of plausible postreceptor biochemical targets in the beta cell for glucocorticoid suppression of insulin secretion.4
The initial common sense approach to glucocorticoid‐induced diabetes is to minimize the glucocorticoid dose as much as possible. There are few studies of optimal medical treatment for glucocorticoid‐induced diabetes.6, 7 Guidelines are largely based on expert opinion and therefore vary. The consensus is that postprandial excursions in blood glucose are more significant than fasting hyperglycemia in most instances, and therefore recommendations are made for use of glinides, thiazolidinediones (TZDs), glucagon‐like peptide 1 (GLP‐1) analogs, or dipeptidyl peptidase 4 (DPP‐4) inhibitors.6-10 The TZD, troglitazone, has been shown to improve postprandial glucose excursions (lower area under the glucose curve in an oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT)), decrease HbA1c, decrease low‐density lipoprotein, and increase insulin secretion in patients on chronic glucocorticoid,9 but is not widely recommended due to side effects of weight gain, heart failure, and bone fractures, all of which may be additive to similar side effects of glucocorticoids in the USA, the drug was removed from the market in 2000. There are few studies of metformin in glucocorticoid diabetes, and it has not generally been recommended as many patients taking glucocorticoid have renal failure or may be prone to lactic acidosis, which constitute contraindications to metformin.8, 10 Consensus is that blood glucose consistently over 200 mg/dL associated with glucocorticoid therapy should be treated with insulin."

I know the article is more aimed at pediatric diabetes but think it is still relevant

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pedi.12406
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
I’m finding Gliclazide (half tablet after breakfast) along with metformin and effect is very minimal. Today my fasting was 10.3 then before lunch 15.0 and tonight 13.9 I know when they ring I have 10/14 days of eating with taking medication but I was hopeful an extra medication would make a difference, the pharmacist went to great lengths to explain possible hypo, but looks like that’s not going to be an issue
 

Struma

Well-Known Member
Messages
536
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Other
Take heart my friend.
Half a tablet is a starting dose, not a finishing dose …
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
Take heart my friend.
Half a tablet is a starting dose, not a finishing dose …

They’ve already increased it to one tablet in the morning, I’m getting really fed up of the whole thing, is there a way to get off these drugs if I have to stay on prednisolone for lie?
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
They tried me on glicazide and it did nothing except give me hypos. Eventally I got to see a specialist diabetic nurse who understood me immediately. The doctors and surgery nurses do not have a clue about steroids and diabetes. Ask your surgery if they have access to a SDN, mone visited the surgery once a month. Agree the Fructosamine would be suitable,
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
They tried me on glicazide and it did nothing except give me hypos. Eventally I got to see a specialist diabetic nurse who understood me immediately. The doctors and surgery nurses do not have a clue about steroids and diabetes. Ask your surgery if they have access to a SDN, mone visited the surgery once a month. Agree the Fructosamine would be suitable,

This is the diabetes nurse at the hospital, my GP is hopeless. I’ve taken 2 metformin and 1 Gliclazide had scrambled eggs for breakfast with 2 bacon and 4 button mushrooms....just taken pre lunch blood sugar and got 19.4mmol. Tomorrow I’m not taking any medications and I’m going to try fasting for 24hrs with just water. Then try again. The Hospital nurse is ringing next Monday but I’m to ring her if I get a 25+ or any 20+ with feeling ill. I feel fine but I’m going to increase my water intake because that worked last week. I’m just so fed up of feeling like I’m getting this wrong some how. I’m taking 10mg prednisone which has been standing does for about 18 months
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I was on 40mg prednisolone. My readings were high teens 20s.

The sdn put me on humulin I which kicks in the at the same time as the steroids. The humulin wasn't enough to last through the day so I got novorapid to top up as I needed
. It worked eventually after a lot faffing about. It's complicated at first and I probably wouldn't have managed it without the libre.

I have been off insulin for around 3 weeks so will have to give up my libre shortly.
 

KarenGG

Active Member
Messages
29
I was on 40mg prednisolone. My readings were high teens 20s.

The sdn put me on humulin I which kicks in the at the same time as the steroids. The humulin wasn't enough to last through the day so I got novorapid to top up as I needed
. It worked eventually after a lot faffing about. It's complicated at first and I probably wouldn't have managed it without the libre.

I have been off insulin for around 3 weeks so will have to give up my libre shortly.

I know it seems nuts, but this is what I want just treatment that works. These tablets have done nothing to regulate my BG, nor has change in diet. I have had a good run with keeping steroids at low level but I know there will be something that triggers my need to increase it. I just wish I could get it sorted without all this messing with dose. When I came out of DKA in March they said I’d be on insulin but then it changed on discharge