Caffeine causes insulin release?

Cocosilk

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bulkbiker

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According to the first article you just need to drink lots of coffee regularly so I'll carry on as I am thanks..

Screenshot 2020-08-04 at 08.39.49.png
 
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Tophat1900

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Has anyone managed to quit caffeine and had an insulin sensitivity test before and after or notice their fasting blood glucose readings drop after quitting caffeine?

Quit? Are you out of your mind? I cannot believe what I'm reading, quit coffee? I'm going to go lay down and try to forget what I just read... :D
 

Brunneria

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I gave up coffee several years ago now (it was affecting both sleep and bp since I seem to be ridiculously and irritatingly and inconveniently sensitive to the stuff)

As far as I can tell, cutting out the coffee made not one jot of an iota of a difference to my insulin release or resistance.
 
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Oldvatr

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I am just reading this now - I thought coffee, especially black with no sugar or maybe with just a bit of cream, wouldn't do much to your blood sugar levels?

Has anyone managed to quit caffeine and had an insulin sensitivity test before and after or notice their fasting blood glucose readings drop after quitting caffeine?

https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2990

https://www.bepure.co.nz/blogs/news/what-need-know-about-coffee
There may well be something that backs this up. Our digestion system is a well coiled spring waiting for food to enter our mouth. From there a series of enzymes attack the food to break it down to its constituent parts that we use for energy. The mouth has one set of sensors that detects sweet things, and also starch molecules and if present then this triggers a splash of Amylase to start digesting these sugars in the mouth before we even swallow. This Amylase release is also the trigger to our pancreas to start the Stage 1 Insulin response so we release insulin in readiness to use or store glucose from the incoming food. If there is no food following, this flush dies away, and the insulin release falls away since it is not required.

There is a second (Stage 2) insulin release that occurs in the duodenum when the carbs move there for digestion and absorption into the bloodstream via the intestine walls. This is a second release of Amylase along with Protase, and Lactase and it occurs in the stomach. This is a larger release and the insulin it triggers is longer lasting and usually gets turned off when it has done its job (signaled by Grehlin and/or low blood sugar levels)

Recent studies on artificial sweetners did show that some of them cause a false trigger of amylase in the mouth and this was causing unnecessary buildup of insulin because there were no real carbs there for the stomach to deal with. It may be that coffees can do the same.
 
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ert

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Life without coffee wouldn't be any life at all. I find coffee and cream does raise my blood sugar. As I expect it, I work around it.
 
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kev-w

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I don't find coffee to affect me tbh and I drink it with semi skimmed milk, just a couple of cups a day, one when I get up and one with lunch (whole bean ground for the french press), it's not something I can see an effect of when looking at my *'cgm' trace, not that means much with me using 'artificial' insulin but still :)

Tea's good also :)

*As in a Libre/Miaomiao combo.
 

Oldvatr

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I am just reading this now - I thought coffee, especially black with no sugar or maybe with just a bit of cream, wouldn't do much to your blood sugar levels?

Has anyone managed to quit caffeine and had an insulin sensitivity test before and after or notice their fasting blood glucose readings drop after quitting caffeine?

https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2990

https://www.bepure.co.nz/blogs/news/what-need-know-about-coffee
To my mind their observations on fatty acids being increased by coffee or caffein is of more importance than thefasting glucose levels.

Reading between the lines the second study seems to show that while glucose was relatively unchanged, the insulin levels rose, as did the free fatty acids. Is there a connection there? They moot a theory about Insulin resistance, but to my mind it actually points to only one of the two IR modes being affected, namely muscle IR did not change (glucose was stored ok) but insulin did not drop as much implying it was not being used or stored in the adipose tissues, i.e. hepatic or adipose IR.

This would be in line with the Newcastle Diet findings of Prof Taylor which to my mind only addressed the adipose IR aspect.
Importantly it would seem that different mechanism are at play and thus full remission for T2D will require a two pronged attack.
 
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Oldvatr

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Life without coffee wouldn't be any life at all. I find coffee and cream does raise my blood sugar. As I expect it, I work around it.
As a T1D, this is interesting. One thing the study suggests is that maybe the pancreas was changing insulin secretion, but your comment is pointing towards it being just the insulin resistance (based on this n=1 sample)
 

ert

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As a T1D, this is interesting. One thing the study suggests is that maybe the pancreas was changing insulin secretion, but your comment is pointing towards it being just the insulin resistance (based on this n=1 sample)
Interesting theory, except my insulin resistance, is off the scale low (https://www.thebloodcode.com/homa-ir-calculator/). It may have more to do with my low background insulin because I'm on LCHF.
 
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Cocosilk

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To my mind their observations on fatty acids being increased by coffee or caffein is of more importance than thefasting glucose levels.

Reading between the lines the second study seems to show that while glucose was relatively unchanged, the insulin levels rose, as did the free fatty acids. Is there a connection there? They moot a theory about Insulin resistance, but to my mind it actually points to only one of the two IR modes being affected, namely muscle IR did not change (glucose was stored ok) but insulin did not drop as much implying it was not being used or stored in the adipose tissues, i.e. hepatic or adipose IR.

This would be in line with the Newcastle Diet findings of Prof Taylor which to my mind only addressed the adipose IR aspect.
Importantly it would seem that different mechanism are at play and thus full remission for T2D will require a two pronged attack.

Could this have anything to do with the phenomenon where people sometimes see their blood glucose drop slightly after eating breakfast if they have had bacon and eggs and a cup of coffee? The food was very low carb - so not much sugar to deal with - but the coffee stimulates insulin release but also doesn't contribute to the sugar load so the blood glucose levels fall rather than rise.

I also wonder if cinnamon, which is said to be good for blood sugar control, might be acting in a similar way. And then it's not as good for us as we think if it's upping insulin levels...
 

Cocosilk

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I gave up coffee several years ago now (it was affecting both sleep and bp since I seem to be ridiculously and irritatingly and inconveniently sensitive to the stuff)

As far as I can tell, cutting out the coffee made not one jot of an iota of a difference to my insulin release or resistance.

It probably is a miniscule contribution to the total amount of insulin I guess. But as far as caffeine as a drug is concerned, I think it is under-appreciated just how much it affects our behaviour. Most of us are so habituated to drinking the stuff that it only brings us up to normal when we have our first cuppa in the morning. But try going without it for a few days and you'll realise what an influence the stuff has on us.

I just quit all caffeine a couple of weeks ago, then a few days ago I tried coffee again one morning. I had only about the usual amount, okay, plus a cup of tea, and I felt GREAT! ...until the evening... when I was having to talk myself through a panic attack :p
I know it's not just caffeine alone that causes that kind of anxiety, but I have no doubt in my mind now that it exacerbates it.

But having to apologetically belittle ourselves for being "sensitive" to what is essentially a drug, is a bit like how it was during my university years when it seemed that everyone was smoking weed and I felt like I was the odd one out who couldn't "handle my weed"... Why is something wrong with US for not handling the drugs?? Surely the drugs are the problem... I often wonder if people who are labelled as "sensitive" are really just more in-tune with their bodies when the majority tend to ignore their bodily sensations, or are just in denial.

The problem I was having after quitting caffeine and going through the withdrawals was realizing that I might never feel as up or happy as I did while "on caffeine", and would that mean life would feel flat from now on? I imagine heroin users feel the same way about their hits - it's hard to replicate that in real life without the drug. But acknowledging this fact is making it easier to have a different expectation of how I should feel once its out of my system. And finding other (natural) ways to get a dopamine hit is helping immensely. (Like exploring a new place in nature. Or singing! Or achieving some other personal goal like learning a new task.)

I have never liked the idea of taking medication if there was an alternative. But I never considered that being on caffeine equates to being medicated. But it does. And I may have even been using it to hide an underlying depression all these years. It's interesting to peel back the band-aid and stare at your wounds head on and then be forced to find a way to heal.

But don't worry, no one wants anyone to give up their coffee habits. There is just too much money to be made by that industry, isn't there? Not to mention that the decisions we make while caffeinated probably involve activity levels that will forever require a caffeinated state to be able to keep up with them. Our whole culture seems to revolve around most people being caffeinated. So those who love their coffee will always be encouraged to stick with it.

But I don't think we need to apologize or make ourselves feel bad for not being able to drink the stuff. The same goes for alcohol. Just because they are made to seem like a normal part of life, doesn't mean we have to consume them like that. I bet there are lots of people struggling with them behind closed doors, too ashamed to admit it for fear of being labelled "sensitive". I remember one young colleague of mine fearing that he was developing Bipolar Disorder. I told him it was more like all the coffee and alcohol he was drinking that was giving him up and down moods. It's weird that people would continue using these legal drugs and then be diagnosed with a mental illness, and then put on more drugs. The pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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Brunneria

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It probably is a miniscule contribution to the total amount of insulin I guess. But as far as caffeine as a drug is concerned, I think it is under-appreciated just how much it affects our behaviour. Most of us are so habituated to drinking the stuff that it only brings us up to normal when we have our first cuppa in the morning. But try going without it for a few days and you'll realise what an influence the stuff has on us.

I just quit all caffeine a couple of weeks ago, then a few days ago I tried coffee again one morning. I had only about the usual amount, okay, plus a cup of tea, and I felt GREAT! ...until the evening... when I was having to talk myself through a panic attack :p
I know it's not just caffeine alone that causes that kind of anxiety, but I have no doubt in my mind now that it exacerbates it.

But having to apologetically belittle ourselves for being "sensitive" to what is essentially a drug, is a bit like how it was during my university years when it seemed that everyone was smoking weed and I felt like I was the odd one out who couldn't "handle my weed"... Why is something wrong with US for not handling the drugs?? Surely the drugs are the problem... I often wonder if people who are labelled as "sensitive" are really just more in-tune with their bodies when the majority tend to ignore their bodily sensations, or are just in denial.

The problem I was having after quitting caffeine and going through the withdrawals was realizing that I might never feel as up or happy as I did while "on caffeine", and would that mean life would feel flat from now on? I imagine heroin users feel the same way about their hits - it's hard to replicate that in real life without the drug. But acknowledging this fact is making it easier to have a different expectation of how I should feel once its out of my system. And finding other (natural) ways to get a dopamine hit is helping immensely. (Like exploring a new place in nature. Or singing! Or achieving some other personal goal like learning a new task.)

I have never liked the idea of taking medication if there was an alternative. But I never considered that being on caffeine equates to being medicated. But it does. And I may have even been using it to hide an underlying depression all these years. It's interesting to peel back the band-aid and stare at your wounds head on and then be forced to find a way to heal.

But don't worry, no one wants anyone to give up their coffee habits. There is just too much money to be made by that industry, isn't there? Not to mention that the decisions we make while caffeinated probably involve activity levels that will forever require a caffeinated state to be able to keep up with them. Our whole culture seems to revolve around most people being caffeinated. So those who love their coffee will always be encouraged to stick with it.

But I don't think we need to apologize or make ourselves feel bad for not being able to drink the stuff. The same goes for alcohol. Just because they are made to seem like a normal part of life, doesn't mean we have to consume them like that. I bet there are lots of people struggling with them behind closed doors, too ashamed to admit it for fear of being labelled "sensitive". I remember one young colleague of mine fearing that he was developing Bipolar Disorder. I told him it was more like all the coffee and alcohol he was drinking that was giving him up and down moods. It's weird that people would continue using these legal drugs and then be diagnosed with a mental illness, and then put on more drugs. The pharmaceutical companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

There is nothing 'apologetically belittling' about my attitude to not being able to drink coffee.
Nor do I 'feel bad' about not being able to drink it.
I do find it inconvenient and exasperating but I am definitely not indulging in some self pitying violin concerto.

Why? Because I very much used to enjoy my one cup of coffee a day, and I miss it.
I'm like a Bisto Kid when someone walks past me with a cup, or when my husband makes his gloriously fragrant coffee ritual that fills the house with the aroma (I'm also like that about the scent of fresh strawberries and fresh baked bread, but that doesn't mean I'm having a pity party).

Being (I hope) a grown up, I prefer to sleep comfortably, and have normal blood pressure - and so I make the sensible decision not to drink coffee.

It does make me laugh when people make statements like 'Oooh, I could never give it up!' or 'life without coffee wouldn't be worth living!'.
Err, yes it is. Given the choice between an early stroke caused by high bp from coffee, or a long life with no stroke, it is actually a very easy decision.
 

MrsA2

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I gave up caffeine over 30 years ago. On the rare occasion I have it now (an early meeting or flight for example) I can feel it coursing through my body within 20 minutes. I get anxious and light palpitations. If I drink it after 11 a.m. I then have trouble getting to sleep that night, in fact last time I had an early morning coffee , my legs were still jumping at 1 am the next morning.
I fully believe it is strong drug.
My hubby on the other hand has a cup 10 minutes before bedtime and sleeps like baby, every night.
 

Cocosilk

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There is nothing 'apologetically belittling' about my attitude to not being able to drink coffee.
Nor do I 'feel bad' about not being able to drink it.
I do find it inconvenient and exasperating but I am definitely not indulging in some self pitying violin concerto.

Why? Because I very much used to enjoy my one cup of coffee a day, and I miss it.
I'm like a Bisto Kid when someone walks past me with a cup, or when my husband makes his gloriously fragrant coffee ritual that fills the house with the aroma (I'm also like that about the scent of fresh strawberries and fresh baked bread, but that doesn't mean I'm having a pity party).

Being (I hope) a grown up, I prefer to sleep comfortably, and have normal blood pressure - and so I make the sensible decision not to drink coffee.

It does make me laugh when people make statements like 'Oooh, I could never give it up!' or 'life without coffee wouldn't be worth living!'.
Err, yes it is. Given the choice between an early stroke caused by high bp from coffee, or a long life with no stroke, it is actually a very easy decision.

I wasn't suggesting you were having a self pitying party but if someone referred to my reaction to caffeine as "ridiculously and irritatingly and inconveniently sensitive", I wouldn't exactly take that as a compliment. So having those feelings towards yourself can't be very encouraging either. I don't want to feel annoyed at myself for not being able to drink it, even though I love the stuff too, AND everything that goes with it - the ambiance in trendy cafes, the company of friends, the cakes, the pastries, the biscuits, the friands...
Sipping Vanilla Rooibos while eating carob powder mixed with coconut oil and cream is a vague substitute I guess and certainly better than nothing. I could always sneak that into a cafe while my friends drink the hard stuff. But now we are a lockdown in my area so no cafes are open anyway. Gosh, everyone must be suffering! :hilarious:
 

kev-w

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I think my only gripe with coffee is that my local roasters who I've used for the last 10 years has discontinued their Honduran beans and replaced them with an inferior tasting bean, claiming them to be single origin but not naming the farm/area as before, and a quick look at their website shows a few of the nicer coffees to have disappeared too, the Peruvian Tunki for one, so it looks like it's time to find a new supplier. :banghead:
 

kev-w

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**Roaster update** A quick google shows there's many more importers and roasters than ever and I can see my favourite coffees too so it maybe is time to try a different roaster.

For me coffee's a treat, a carb free one too if you ignore the little milk added for froth and me having no bp issues is a fine treat, but as with everything moderation is the key to caffeine consumption. :)
 
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LooperCat

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I run on caffeine, either as strong black coffee or my favourite flavour of Monster (Ultimate White, tastes like Lilt) at 3am on a nightshift. It has no effect on my blood sugar levels or insulin needs.
 
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