Toxicity of insulin due to phenol and metacresol

bvanant

Member
Messages
6
Type of diabetes
HCP
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Also check out
"Advancing continuous subcutaneous insulin infusion in vivo:New insights into tissue challenges" by Ulrike Klueh and her lab in J. Biomed Mater Research, 2020, p 1. I don't know if you can get it for free but her findings are the same pretty much the same. Her conclusions are " As sterile diluent was capable of inducing inflammation even in the absence of insulin, methods designed to reduce or neutralize these phenolic compounds' effects could extend device lifespan as well."

Now we just have to figure out how to do it.
BVA
 

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
Agree, but at present we just dont know - the sciencedirect article references a whole lot of interesting studies, and by following the references in some of these I have realised how much more complex the infusion site issues in particular may be, especially over the long term, and how much they are being studied.

There are enough people now living with diabetes over 50 years to reassure yourselves that it isn’t a problem!

The most probable problem causing earlier deaths is not looking after the blood levels, and supporting body with good food and cutting the carbs.

Do I worry about what is in the insulin??? No.
 

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
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People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
@urbanracer The details of Insulin Aspart state 1.5mg/ml, as mentioned in the FDA briefing on the product. http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4254b_13_04_KP InsulinAspartFDAlabel102005.pdf

However, I personally inject <50u of Novorapid daily, so I'd be experiencing the effect of <0.75mg of phenol, which is well under what are considered to be "safe" levels.

On that point, it's also worth noting that in the statement in the science direct paper, phenol was noted to cause cellular death when the levels exceeded 1.2mg/ml/24 hours.

It's also worth noting that the levels at which adipocytes were damaged (with Phenol) was at 2.3mg/ml/24 hours and upwards. Again, this is a high amount of insulin.

In other words, what I take away from the study is that larger amounts of insulin, which increase the phenol and m-cresol concentration in cells, cause greater cell damage. That ignores that high levels of exogenous insulin also cause other metabolic issues that probably far outweigh the cell damage concerns.

The key point of the study appears to be to identify whether it is the Phenol/m-Cresol components of insulin as well as the invasive nature of the cannula that results in tissue damage, or whether it is just the latter. As the study says, more investigation is needed from both a control and testing inhibitors that may make a difference perspective.

As a footnote, I note that even when not continually infusing insulin through an injection port, there is still a similar level of irritation, so I question whether the hypothesis that it is heavily attributable to stability enhancers in the insulin is accurate.

In the meantime, I intend to continue to take insulin and stay alive.

Hi Tim

I had to come off pump 5 years ago due to the cannulas and my skin reactions...my skin blocked the insulin releasing every time I had a new cannula. Went through hell with hospitals putting me back on pumps, changing pump types to get different cannulas etc... but 1) cannulas for 3 days or more
2)Novorapid constant 3) very lean.

I use 4 different insulin’s a day now. No more than 25 units of all insulin’s per day. Insulatard, fiasp, Novorapid, tresiba.
Do not inject in my stomach ever, too lean and muscly to do so. Have never had injections work in my stomach. Always my legs for 90% of time. Sometimes bum cheeks or arms if I’m out though and wearing jeans etc..

Never worried about the insulin’s, just think there’s too many long term T1’s now that live 50 years or more.
I’m very low carb and one meal per day. Suits me far better..
 

LizLola

Well-Known Member
Messages
66
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi,

Do you have any source links regarding the "filter?" Sounds facinating...

I only have my private correspondence with the scientist who invented it. Amazingly, he was asked to find a way of removing the phenols from human growth hormone as one of the, ONE of the patients taking it had shown a reaction to the phenols in it. He researched and invented this filter - but by then the manufacturers of the growth hormone had realised that they can dry growth hormone and reconstitute it with water just before injection (like we do with glucagon). So they didn't want his filter - he went on to research if it could be used for insulin before offering it to the manufacturers - they said it would not work for insulin in suspension. He solved that, too. They still did not want it - because 'there is no demand'. If only enough of us or someone with a good way with words and a lot of clout could/would stand up and shout for it!
 

LizLola

Well-Known Member
Messages
66
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
There are enough people now living with diabetes over 50 years to reassure yourselves that it isn’t a problem!

The most probable problem causing earlier deaths is not looking after the blood levels, and supporting body with good food and cutting the carbs.

Do I worry about what is in the insulin??? No.

There are many people living with diabetes over 50 years - with a higher risk of cancer. That's not where it is injected (although in the lab tests on Lantus there were cancers at the site of the dogs who were used and doctors were supposed to check insulin sites when it first came out), and it would be very tricky to prove that this risk is the phenols rather than any other risk with being diabetic. But phenols are known to be toxic, their use in labs was banned more than 30 years ago, and the technicians were certainly not injecting it into themselves!
 

RG_Knowing

Newbie
Messages
3
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
There are many people living with diabetes over 50 years - with a higher risk of cancer. That's not where it is injected (although in the lab tests on Lantus there were cancers at the site of the dogs who were used and doctors were supposed to check insulin sites when it first came out), and it would be very tricky to prove that this risk is the phenols rather than any other risk with being diabetic. But phenols are known to be toxic, their use in labs was banned more than 30 years ago, and the technicians were certainly not injecting it into themselves!

Dear All,

I'm trying to understand whether Phenol or meta-cresol can damage the mitochondria (ATP powerhouse) as they are known toxins. My recent omega-3:eek:mega-6 ratio blood test showed a value of 30:1 instead of the optimal 3:1. Despite being lean and avoiding omega-6 rich fries and outside food for decades, the imbalance puzzled me, considering my organic garden-grown food.

I was prescribed RxOmega, a high-quality omega-3 supplement, which reduced the ratio to 21:1 in two months. However, upon reducing or stopping the routine, the ratio spiked again. Realizing that mitochondria are made from only fatty acid omega-3, I questioned the imbalance. As I don't consume omega-6, the high Omega 3:6 ratio may result from excessive insulin usage, as I am Type 1 since 22 years. Taking daily insulin injections containing phenol, a known toxin that harms mitochondria, might explain the imbalance. Seeking insights from those with super high ratios and questioning if phenol could be the contributing factor. Despite my doctor's approval of omega-3 intake, he hasn't connected these dots effectively between omega-3 and the preservative in insulin. While addressing the latter may be challenging, it helps if we would know to manage omega-3 levels given the potential impact on health. Understanding the long-term effects of our daily intake is complex, and I'm open to hearing thoughts or experiences from anyone who has faced similar experience.

Thanks
Ram
 

jonathan183

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Seeking insights from those with super high ratios and questioning if phenol could be the contributing factor. Despite my doctor's approval of omega-3 intake, he hasn't connected these dots effectively between omega-3 and the preservative in insulin. While addressing the latter may be challenging, it helps if we would know to manage omega-3 levels given the potential impact on health. Understanding the long-term effects of our daily intake is complex, and I'm open to hearing thoughts or experiences from anyone who has faced similar experience.
Why do you think the preservatives in insulin are going to influence your omega 3 to omega 6 ratio rather than what you are consuming ? what is the mechanism you think your doctor is missing ?
 
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