Statins & Blood Pressure

carty

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When I was diagnosed with diabetes my cholesterol was in the 7s( can't remember exactly what it was ) I started to take a plant sterol called Lestrin and I started to lower .my carbs and up my fat intake .My cholesterol came down and now I have stopped taking the Lestrin and have a cholesterol level of 5..1,Keeping up my lower carb higher fat diet
CAROL
 
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Winnie53

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@NoCrbs4Me Thank you so much for posting the first part of the first Statin Nation documentaries. I love good journalism. I emailed Justin Smith to ask if DVD's that will work on US DVD players are available for purchase. Fingers and toes crossed. I want to add both documentaries to my DVD library.

@Rog the reason they mentioned CoQ10 in the documentary is because statins BLOCK the pathway that produces CoQ10, which is used by the mitochondria within the cells throughout the body. That's why, if you or anyone else takes a statin, it's very important to supplement CoQ10. :)
 
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Rog

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@Rog what I neglected to explain to you last night is that there are two opposing views of what causes heart disease: 1) the "cholesterol hypothesis" that cholesterol is the primary cause of heart disease and 2) a more current, science-based view that inflammation, not cholesterol causes heart disease.

The other book I recommended to you was written by someone who still believes in the cholesterol hypothesis, so all her advice will contradict what Dr. Sinatra's book teaches. The reason I referred you to her book was so you could get a good overview of the tests, lipid profile information used in the UK.

Sinatra's book, The Great Cholesterol Myth, will help you understand why inflammation is the problem, but he will also tell you that high glucose levels in the blood injures the arteries...which leads to inflammation...which leads to plaque build up in the artery walls.

Here's where it gets tricky. When evaluating our heart disease risk, the number of LDL particles circulating in our blood doesn't tell us much. What we need to know is what is the size of those LDL particles.

Why? Because the smaller LDL particles, if I'm understanding Sinatra correctly, are damaged due to oxidation for example, and through a process I don't completely understand, are more likely to end up in the artery wall, whereas the larger LDL particles are less likely to end up there, where we don't want it.

This is why, it's more important to know your LDL particle size, not just your LDL particle number. But here's the catch. Health insurance may not pay to measure the particle number and size of your LDL and HDL, so we may have to pay for that test out of pocket.

If you have a typical lipid profile that's a little high, you're probably okay, and over time, your lipid profile should improve on the LCHF diet. But I like what Tim2000s said in his above post...

"Some people will see increases from eating extra saturated fats and others won't. Generally over the population though, sat fats typically don't directly cause an increase in cholesterol as the mechanism by which cholesterol enters the bloodstream is that it is generated by the liver."

We're all so individual. That's why, after your weight loss has stabilized for a few months, it's important to have another lipid profile to see if you're responding to the increase in healthy saturated and monounsaturated fats in a healthy or unhealthy way. We want triglycerides to go down, LDL to eventually go down, and HDL to go up on the LCHF diet. Your next lipid profile, again, after your weight loss has stabilized for a few months, in 3 to 12 months will give you more information. :)
Should have the HDL/LDL tomorrow , will ask for the LDL partical size as well as the number.
 
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Winnie53

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The first 13 minutes of the documentary "Statin Nation":


It's worth a watch.

This DVD and the new one are both available for those of us in the US too. Got this emailed response from Justin today...

"The DVDs do work in the US, I ship them to the US almost every day and I ship the correct format for US DVD players. Best wishes, Justin" :)
 

Winnie53

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Should have the HDL/LDL tomorrow , will ask for the LDL partical size as well as the number.
@Rog that's great! It will be interesting to hear your cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol results from your lipid panel.

Dr. Sinatra writes in chapter 9 that there are a number of different "particle size" tests: NMR LipoProfile; Lipoprint; Berkeley (from Berkeley HeartLab; Vertical Auto Profile (VAP); Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP). I haven't had this test done yet, but would like to after I've been exercising and on the LCHF diet and nutritional supplements for at least 6 to 12 months. :)
 
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Indy51

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@Rog that's great! It will be interesting to hear your cholesterol, triglycerides, HDL cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol results from your lipid panel.

Dr. Sinatra writes in chapter 9 that there are a number of different "particle size" tests: NMR LipoProfile; Lipoprint; Berkeley (from Berkeley HeartLab; Vertical Auto Profile (VAP); Lipoprotein Particle Profile (LPP). I haven't had this test done yet, but would like to after I've been exercising and on the LCHF diet and nutritional supplements for at least 6 to 12 months. :)
You are very lucky to live in a country where such advanced testing is available. As far as I'm aware, those kind of tests simply aren't available in the UK (or Australia in my case).
 

Rog

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I'll be very surprised if it's available on our health scheme, but I'll ask the GP. Thanks for the link :)
Hi Winnie got the info, they were done when I was diagnosed nearly four weeks ago so hopefully it's all downhill from here, break it to me slowly, here goes. HDL 0.9 LDL 4.7
Triglycerides 3.1
Overall 7.
 
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Winnie53

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Yay, glad you have your test results @Rog

Here's your numbers in both mmol/L (and mg/dL that we use in the US) converted here... http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconvert/Cholesterol.php

Cholesterol 7 mmol/L (270 mg/dL)
LDL Cholesterol 4.7 mmol/L (181 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol 0.9 mmol/L (35 mg/dL)
Triglycerides 3.1 mmol/L (120 mg/dL)

Here's more information from the Heart UK website... http://heartuk.org.uk/health-and-high-cholesterol/cholesterol-tests---know-your-number

  • Total Cholesterol (TC) - this is the total amount of cholesterol in your blood. Ideally it should be 5 mmol/L or less
  • Non HDL-Cholesterol this is your total cholesterol minus your HDL-cholesterol (good cholesterol) and is the sum all the "bad" cholesterols added together (including LDL cholesterol) - ideally it should be 4mmol/L or less
  • LDL-Cholesterol (LDL-C) - this is the amount of LDL-cholesterol), ideally it should be 3 mmol/L or less
  • HDL-Cholesterol (HDL-C) - the amount of good cholesterol, ideally it should be over 1mmol/L (men) and over 1.2mmol/L (women).
  • TC:HDL ratio This is the TC figure divided by the HDL-C figure. A ratio above 6 is considered high risk - the lower this figure is the better.
  • Triglyceride (TG) this represent your body's ability to clear fat from the blood after a meal. Ideally it should be less than 2mmol/L on a fasting sample)
Your Triglyceride/HDL ratio is 3.42 (120 mg/dL/35 mg/dL). Dr. Sinatra writes, "If you have a ratio of around 2, you should be happy indeed, regardless of your cholesterol levels. (A ratio of 5, however, is problematic.)" (Page 44, Chapter 3, The Great Cholesterol Myth)

According to Christopher Gardner, Ph.D at Stanford University, a ratio above 3 is a marker for insulin resistance. Here's more information on the Triglyceride/HDL ratio... http://www.docsopinion.com/2014/07/17/triglyceride-hdl-ratio/

Your triglycerides are higher than mine, but similar to what mine were 4 years ago before I stopped eating wheat, rye, and barley - (my Triglyceride/HDL ratio was 3.35 in 2011; this year it was 2.86 in February, 2.46 in May). I think as you continue on the LCHF diet, your triglyceride will go down, and your HDL will go up, which will improve your Triglyceride/LDL ratio. Taking fish or krill oil is helpful for lowering triglycerides too. :)
 
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Rog

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Thanks Winnie, it looks like the LCHF is the answer to all my issues, diet and exercise !
 
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TopoGigi

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A word of warning
My cholestrol has always been on the low side, never been overweight, have always had a low fat diet don't eat much meat, etc; so never really thought much about taking Statins however two years ago I had an investigatory Angiogram for chest pain, diagnosed with 80% blockage to one of my arteries and moderate Atheroma throughout my major cardiac vessels, now taking statins to help with further damage, so you never know what is going on inside your body, just think about it.
 
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Winnie53

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TopoGigi, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's really frightening. I began having chest pains recently, so began investigating my options. My chest pains are gone now, thankfully.

I encourage anyone reading this who is interested in learning about heart and bone health to learn more about vitamin K2 - (note, not K1) - taken with vitamin A - (cod liver oil, not beta carotene) - D3, and magnesium. I also encourage anyone taking a calcium supplement, like I was off and on for 30 years, to read the COMB study to improve bone strength and density... http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2012/354151/ Note that study participants greatly improved their bone health without supplementing with calcium, which can end up in our arteries and other soft tissues if there is a vitamin K2 deficiency. This was ALL new information to me this year. I had no idea. :(

Also, here's two excellent videos that explain how vitamin K2 deficiency has contributed to heart disease and bone loss. This is probably more of a problem in the US where most of our beef is not grass fed. I now buy grass fed beef and butter made from grass fed cows, also eggs from pastured hens.

John Whitcomb, M.D., http://blog.newsinnutrition.com/2015/06/real-women-and-real-men-eat-fat/

Kate Rheaume-Bleue, N.D., B.Sc., author of book, Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox

I also take CoQ10 and other nutritional supplements specific for heart and cellular health including the anti-inflammatory, Meriva, made from the spice turmeric, in addition to the LCHF diet, and walking 1 to 4 miles a day. After a three month plateau, weight and BG readings are improving again. Yay! :)
 

Kfoll

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Type of diabetes
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Tablets (oral)
Total Cholesterol = 8.3
LDL = 5.65
HDL = 2.18
Triglycerides = 1.04.

My Doctor is concerned and wants me to go back on Statins, which gave me really aching joints and frozen shoulder after frozen shoulder. I have never felt better after 8 months of LCHF and a 5 stone loss.
I still have 1.5 stone to go to get in the normal weight range of under 25 BMI.

According to the ratios I have :
TC/HDL = 2.96
LDL/HDL = 2.59
Tri/HDL = 0.47.

All these ratios are considered great, so why is my Doctor panicking?
 

Winnie53

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We have two cardiologists in the US who would not treat you based on your lipid profile alone. Your Triglycerides and HDL look good. Bravo! They would instead do additional testing first. Both have written books that I found helpful as I considered whether I needed a statin in addition to the LCHF, nutritional supplements and daily exercise:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Chole...id=1435090061&sr=8-8&keywords=stephen+sinatra

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Chole...id=1435090061&sr=8-8&keywords=stephen+sinatra

For now, I'm choosing to not take a statin.

If you go back on a statin, and I don't know if you should or not, be sure to take CoQ10 with it. Statins both help and harm. It's important to learn everything you can about heart disease and it's treatment so you are making an informed decision. :)
 

andcol

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He is probably panicking because of high TC and LDL. Are you losing weight at the moment? This can cause raised LDL and TC levels because that fat has to be ejected from the shrinking cells and artificially increase your values.
 
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Kfoll

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He is probably panicking because of high TC and LDL. Are you losing weight at the moment? This can cause raised LDL and TC levels because that fat has to be ejected from the shrinking cells and artificially increase your values.
Yes, I still have 20 or so pounds to go and have been losing steadily 2/3 pounds a week since last October.
 
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Brightside

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folks also remember exercise is great in lowering LDL and increasing HDL....so if you are able to, get on your bicycles or run walk spin yoga anything that will get you to VO2 80%.
 
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Winnie53

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Yes, I still have 20 or so pounds to go and have been losing steadily 2/3 pounds a week since last October.

I totally forgot about weight loss affecting the Total Cholesterol and LDL Cholesterol lab test results. Kfoll, you likely will get different results when you retest after your weight has been stable for a few months. If it's still higher at that time, not now, there are additional tests you can have done before considering whether or not a statin is needed. :)
 

Winnie53

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Kfoll, you might also find it helpful to compare your current lipid panel with your previous lipid one.
 
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