I think that overall you are twice as likely to die from CVD than cancer in Europe at the moment..
I'm hopeful that my diet will reduce the risk of either eventuality and that I can choose the time of my departure
I was actually taking about Europe wide to keep it in the same terms as the study we were discussing.Sadly, thinking it won't actually make it happen.
If that was the measure, none of the counties would appear in the survey you quoted earlier.
Ironically, London, (one of the best performing areas, has a high degree of child poverty by your definition of 'poverty')
It would be interesting to see the geographical pattern of the countries involved.
I've found the poorest countries generally survive on the highest carbs, (rice, potato, pasta, cous cous), do the most manual work, have no medicine, and lower care standards.
The more affluent diet eats a lot better, don't need to eat cheap filler, have more sedentary work, have better medicine, and higher care standards.
So, the figures aren't really surprising in that context.
I agree,
Take Kensington, one of the richest borough's, but also a high level of poverty!
Is there another word than 'poverty'?
I don't think the word covers the description I am looking for!
I was actually taking about Europe wide to keep it in the same terms as the study we were discussing.
"think" was a euphemism for "I have just read" sorry if I was unclear..
unfortunately for us, more people die of cancer here now.
Interesting fact, very relevant to the published study.
Moldova is one of the poorest countries we're proud to be a member of the Europe with.
GDP per head is $1, 848 per annum, and falling.
The only export is agriculture, which is also the staple diet.
(Well, possibly the other export is human trafficking, but let's not count that one as sustainable hopefully)
Another interesting fact, UK GDP per head is £43, 642.
We earn as much in three years, as they do in a lifetime. (And that lifetime is about ten years shorter than ours)
Everything in context.
I'd rather live in the uk and eat carbs personally, than live in Moldova and eat beef.
Isn't the point that the Moldovan's are unlikely to be able to afford to eat beef and health possibly suffers as a result ?
That's another reason I steer clear of statins. Not definitive. Is it the statin or the low cholesterol causing the cancer ?
http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/jco.2014.58.9564
"Association never proves causation. Although it may be difficult to prove that statins can cause or prevent cancer, the preponderance of evidence favors the former."
Geoff
Yep, thanks!
Clear as mud!
Someone in government especially the Tories is always moving the goal posts!!!
I suppose living in poverty as a child, can give you an enlightened view of how missing meals and going to bed hungry and not having even basic things can effect you!
It gave me the strength of character and ambition to get me the motivation to make sure my kids and grandkids don't go through what I did!
But I will say the powers that be, know an easy target, in the unfortunate in how to inflict more suffering than there should be!
It is a shocking indictment of our country in how many millions are struggling in this time!
Food banks are this government's greatest legacy!
We're and sitting around having this chat on here because for most of us.
It's a Sunday, a bit of pottering around the house, maybe a bit of gardening, Sunday lunch bought from Tesco's, a glass of wine, emergency services on 24/7 free of charge, complaining the weekend will be over soon, and we're back at work tomorrow.
I'll take that over living hand to mouth somewhere else, imagining it's only the fact there is a joint slow roasting in the oven that is the difference.
I can monitor enough things to mostly prevent CVD, in the developed country I'm living in.
The full conclusion has the real kicker, that no one will see coming, until it's too late.
It repeated what other studies have found, or suggested.
"In fact, our ecological comparison of cancer incidence in 39 European countries (for 2012; (59)) can bring another important argument. Current rates of cancer incidence in Europe are namely the exact geographical opposite of CVDs (see Fig. 28). In sharp contrast to CVDs, cancer correlates with the consumption of animal food (particularly animal fat), alcohol, a high dietary protein quality, high cholesterol levels, high health expenditure, and above average height. These contrasting patterns mirror physiological mechanisms underlying physical growth and the development of cancer and CVDs (60). The best example of this health paradox is again that of French men, who have the lowest rates of CVD mortality in Europe, but the highest rates of cancer incidence. In other words, cancer and CVDs appear to express two extremes of a fundamental metabolic disbalance that is related to factors such as cholesterol and IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor)."
I'm keeping animal fat, animal protein, and my cholesterol down.
And I'm even average height!
Yep, thanks!
Clear as mud!
Someone in government especially the Tories is always moving the goal posts!!!
I suppose living in poverty as a child, can give you an enlightened view of how missing meals and going to bed hungry and not having even basic things can effect you!
It gave me the strength of character and ambition to get me the motivation to make sure my kids and grandkids don't go through what I did!
But I will say the powers that be, know an easy target, in the unfortunate in how to inflict more suffering than there should be!
It is a shocking indictment of our country in how many millions are struggling in this time!
Food banks are this government's greatest legacy!
My take on this would be that the issue here is going to prove to be one of overeating in general where one's diet includes a) too much carbohydrates and b) to much protein. An oversupply of carbs promoting diabetes and heart disease and an overconsumption of food in general and proteins in particular promoting cancer.
Thus keeping overall calories down is necessary, as is eating moderate amounts of carbs and proteins, where the carb element should be limited to the carbs necessary to get the other nutrients supplied by them, and the protein element is a function of age, effort expended and the need to supply the correct nutrients to let your body replace what needs replacing without flooding it with an oversupply. The balance of one's food then coming directly from fats of whatever kind.
This is entirely consistent with too much protein included in one's diet as opposed to too much animal fat per se. i.e. when we eat the building block of the body, protein - to excess we encourage growth and with a mature body what then grows is the next thing in line - cancer. This would thus be entirely consistent with height being a factor - as in order to grow, one must consume more protein.
An ultra ketogenic diet ( 90% fats ) is known to be beneficial to cancer patients because the cancer can't feed on ketones but does feed on glucose. In those circumstances it seems a bit counter-intuitive that somehow its the fats that caused the cancer to grow in the first place.
In nearly all highly developed economies, the fear of fat is so pronounced that most "high quality " meats consumed as meat is the lowest possible fat varieties- with all fat cut off - thus its also hard to make the connection that is it consumption of animal fats per se that causes cancer compared to anything else.
Where fat from meat is consumed in any quantity it is often because it provides flavour as part of the various processed foods on offer. Thus its difficult to see if problems associated with those foods are connected to the meat fat content of the product or all the other garbage included through its processing.
This is an interesting set of long term graphs.
https://authoritynutrition.com/11-graphs-that-show-what-is-wrong-with-modern-diet/
I was fascinated to find this comment on the NHS website
While eating too much saturated fat may not increase your cancer risk, it can increase your risk of other health conditions, such as coronary heart disease.
so currently the NHS has bet in entirely the opposite direction to this study
My own money is keeping my protein and carbs combined to less than 100g, ie about 30 carbs and about 70 proteins, and preferable 90 ( i.e. 60 protein) not worrying too much where the fat actually comes from as long as its a natural product of whatever variety and keeping my diet as varied as possible.
I misread your words "more people die of cancer here now."Cancer mortalities are falling,
I misread your words "more people die of cancer here now."
My bad.
Geoff
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