A couple of food questions

Hi Chris,

1. Porridge is high in wholegrain oats and actual sugars. The addition of milk adds lactose which is milk sugar. What is more important to us diabetics is the carbohydrate content of foods and oats are very high on them. The only way to know if you are ok with that amount of carbs is to test. Many of us can't have even a half a portion of porridge/rice/pasta/potatoes without our blood sugars going up to sevens and eights.


2. Testing is another annoyance for us type 2. The pros generally say not to test but we here say get a meter, strips and lancets and test test test. Unfortunately many of us have to buy our own strips but at the end of the day it's worth it when you take control of your condition. Initially test first thing in the morning, then before, one and two hours after each meal to get a full picture of your reactions to different foods. I would recommend reducing your carbohydrate intake and then you can add them back as far as you tolerate them!

Good luck!

Hi kipperdog....

1. I have been eating porridge regularly for breakfast. Dietician said it was good for me. I read the packet and one sachet contains about 0.3g sugar but goes up to 18g when eaten with semi-skimmed milk. Although I nearly always used skimmed milk, am I introducing sugar to my diet with milk?

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Not sure what exact Porridge you have been eating but it is usually high in carbohydrates. Anything from 60g to 72g approx. per 100g. So any milk you add be it semi or skimmed isn't really going to make much difference to you !

You need to forget about sugars and read the total carb content of foods. Carbohydrates convert directly to Glucose (sugar) the total carb count encompasses sugars as well. So it isn't 0.3g sugar, it's more like 60g carbs (glucose in effect). :shock: You may be able to tolerate that amount of carbs without an effect on your Bg levels. I couldn't. That is why you need to test and see what effect it has.

2. Can anyone suggest the best method to monitor BG levels to discover which food types elevate my BG levels the most? Can I diet and introduce a variety of food types and monitor which have the best/worst effects?

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You need to test immediately before a meal and then 1 hr, 2 hrs and also sometimes 3 hrs to closely monitor what foods do to your Bg levels. Keep a food diary for a couple of weeks along with the record of your Bg readings, that way you will be able to see which foods are bad for you and others which aren't.

Kipperdog said:

..........I now realise that it is the carbs that are screwing me up. I am now going to monitor what foods are doing the damage and avoid them ...........

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Yes Kipperdog - that's what most of us find out eventually because the healthcare professionals - including the DESMOND course - advise us to "eat plenty of starchy carbohydrate" - e.g. cereals, bread, potatoes, rice, pasta etc - with every meal - and, then, through diabetes forums such as this one, we find that it is those foods that do us the most harm! I agree very confusing and misleading.

Quite appalling in my opinion!

Best wishes - John

John,

Sorry to disagree with you, but carbs in moderation (smaller quantities) are not harmful should they be equally matched to insulin/meds.

Granted, the amount of carbs recommended by our 'so-called professionals' are way to high, hence why so many find good control impossible to achieve. I wholly endorse that carb reduction does benefit overall control, and I have reduced my intake with great results; however to suggest that all carbs are bad is simply not true.

By testing both pre/post meal-times, and 2-3 hours thereafter, and keeping a diary of foods eaten and the effects on bg's, will determine what carbs can be tolerated without the spikes. Reading and learning about foods and their impact on blood glucose, will empower you to eat a balanced diet that is beneficial to good health all round. Not all carbs are evil, only in large quantities!

Regards

Nigel

Isn't this where the glycemic load of a meal is relevant?

Oats have a low GI, which means that they take a while to digest, so that there won't be an immediate sugar spike, but the glucose will be released into the bloodstream gradually.

You can cut down on the milk sugar by making the porridge with less milk. Traditionally, the Scots used just water. We have ours with 75% water and 25% skimmed milk - and it tastes very good (have to confess to a tsp of maple syrup too - but that wouldn't suit everyone)

Proper porridge oats are important - avoid the instant porridges like the plague.

.. and have a small portion, and make up the rest of breakfast with something proteiny, eg some cheese or ham.

Nigel

I have to disagree with you. Carbs from starchy vegies, cereals, rice, pasta simply make my BGLs rise above my chosen levels... I believe I have a right to BGLs of a non diabetic person and can achieve this without needing to use insulin or meds to make it. I will not ingest carbs and then match it with medication. Instead I select the carbs for my lifestyle and chosen pathway. What works for me is carbs via green vegies. The traditional carbs via flour, rice, pasta, root vegies, nearly all of the fruits send me over 5.3 unless I take meds.

Don't want meds until I have no choice or control over my BGLs without them. I want the chance to regain some of the feeling I lost in my feet to neuropathy and I believe that my best route to this aim is to normalise my blood sugars and maintain them.

Love rolled oats. Tested myself on rolled oats (not instant) recently. Made with water, no milk (cream has less carbs than all the milks and low fat are the worst often). In just one hour despite it's low glycemic load my BGLs went way above my self imposed limit of a normal response. Adore bread. Could really polish off some rice or a pasta dish. I am not able to tolerate any without a marked rise in BGLs. I want the chance to live a long life, free of medications, that is full of dancing opportunities. For that I need both of my feet, on. My choice is simple. Oats I can live without. Life without a foot is more problematic.

There's porridge and porridge and portion size !
Your dietitian is right, porridge does have nutritional benfits, a major one is that it contains a type of fibre which may decrease cholesterol . However as Ken says it is high in carbohydrate. There are two ways of helping to deal with this. Firstly, make sure that your portion size is not too large, a normal portion using 40g of oatmeal and semi skimmed milk will contain about 38g carb.

. You could balance meal the meal better by reducing the oatmeal adding some berries and/or some nuts such as flaked almonds, you could also as Romola says add some protein.

Secondly the rate of digestion makes a difference to how large the blood glucose spike will be. Coarse ground oatmeal is lower GI and should be better than finely ground oatmeal. If you are using a sachet, I suspect it is very finely ground. Choose jumbo or steel ground oats, it may make a difference.
for more about the glycemic index and load.
http://www.glycemicindex.com/

Having said that you do need to test, to see your bodies individual reaction. It is also surprising how people vary and vary from day to day, which is something that needs to be taken into account.

I agree with noblehead that there are health benefits to starchy carbs (such as that from the betaglucans in oatmeal ) but It does seem though that many professionals emphasise their importance so making it seem that very large quantities should be eaten.
It is all about finding a balance, which works for you for your diabetes, your lifestyle and overall health (not just diabetes)

Incidently, the difference in carb content beween skimmed and whole milk is negligible between 4.7 and 5g per 100ml The fat content is between 0.1g and 3.5. It is a good source of calcium.

Cream has less carbs at between 2 and 4g per 100ml but a fat content of between 18g and 48g. Some people feel this doesn't matter, you will have to investigate and decide for yourself. Double cream has only 40% of the calcium in milk

clearview,

As you are clearly on no meds and using a carb free diet to control your bg's, and are well and active, it would be unreasonable to suggest that you should consume carbs and change things.

My point was that for those who are on insulin/meds already, there is ways round including carbs in your diet without the high's and low's. Experimentation, as I have suggested will determine which foods are best suited on a individual bases. I see that you can't tolerate any without rising your blood glucose, that's fine so you choose not to eat them; many like myself can tolerate them and have adapted ways round to prevent unstable bg's.

As Romola says, the gi diet is one way of preventing post spikes and to stabilise blood glucose. I, like many others on this forum use this method, but I would not suggest that this works for everyone! What I have said is that the only way to determine what is suitable to each individual is to sample, record, check and learn from experience.

There are many health benefits from some carbs, as mentioned oats, and many root vegies that are packed with nutrition. Whether one includes these foods or not, is purely personal, and I for one would not advise anyone to follow any diet based on my own experience.

I know that eating to many carbs has health implications, this is why I have cut back the amount I consume. Only month's back, I was eating anywhere between 200-300g a day, and had a Hba1c of 8.1%, now I eat approx 100-120g and have a Hba1c of 6.9% and 1 stone lighter! In time I hope to get my long-term hba1c to around 6%. Therefore, I am well aware of the benefits of moderation.

Regards

Nigel

noblehead said:

John,

Sorry to disagree with you, but carbs in moderation (smaller quantities) are not harmful should they be equally matched to insulin/meds.

Granted, the amount of carbs recommended by our 'so-called professionals' are way to high, hence why so many find good control impossible to achieve. I wholly endorse that carb reduction does benefit overall control, and I have reduced my intake with great results; however to suggest that all carbs are bad is simply not true.

By testing both pre/post meal-times, and 2-3 hours thereafter, and keeping a diary of foods eaten and the effects on bg's, will determine what carbs can be tolerated without the spikes. Reading and learning about foods and their impact on blood glucose, will empower you to eat a balanced diet that is beneficial to good health all round. Not all carbs are evil, only in large quantities!

Regards

Nigel

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Hi Nigel,

I don't disagree with what you say about quantities. In fact, I still eat quite a lot of carbohydrate in complex fruit or veg form. However, these days, I eat very little of starchy carbohydrate that healthcare professionals encouraged me to eat with gusto for eight years.

Also, I should have explained that I do always talk from the standpoint of a non-insulin-dependent Type 2 - i.e. someone who cannot equally match carbohydrate intake to insulin/meds. As I see things, the only options I have are either to cut back on carbohydrate or let my blood glucose levels soar to high levels - and run the risk of diabetic complications.

Best wishes - John

John,

Yeah.....the thought of complications due to diabetes is never far from all our minds!

I would imagine this is what spurs us all into action, I know that we are all united in believing that the tighter control we have, the less chances there are of future complications. How one achieves this, isn't relevant, as long as they control their condition as best as possible.

Regards

Nigel