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A little experiment......

Just weighed myself...... 1lb heavier! Interesting! Back to LCHF.
 
Andrew is right about suddenly eating carbs . Indeed that's why doing an OGTT whilst eating a low carb diet will result in an elevated result. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)60565-X/fulltext
Was your rice also Thai? because Thai rice has a very high GI.
Rice can vary tremendously on the variety and how it's cooked, the longer the higher GI (sticky type rice cooked in a rice cooker seem to be the worst)
Much better are lower GI rices (basmati is lower but there are some lower) Much better nutritionally is brown rice (white rice has been stripped of almost everything) Personally (as someone who uses insulin but believe it or not, what I eat does make a difference) I find a commercial mixture of brown, wild and basmati is the best for me
 
Scandichic said:
Just weighed myself...... 1lb heavier! Interesting! Back to LCHF.
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Your weight can fluctuate by a few lbs every day. You can't blame a 1lbs weight gain on 2tbsp of rice.... It doesn't even weigh 1lb!

However your BG readings are not great from it. As the others say, I would repeat a few times just to be sure. Interesting that 9.2 makes you feel dizzy though... I didn't realise that it was that bad!


Blogging at drivendiabetic.wordpress.com
 
phoenix said:
Andrew is right about suddenly eating carbs . Indeed that's why doing an OGTT whilst eating a low carb diet will result in an elevated result. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)60565-X/fulltext
Was your rice also Thai? because Thai rice has a very high GI.
Rice can vary tremendously on the variety and how it's cooked, the longer the higher GI (sticky type rice cooked in a rice cooker seem to be the worst)
Much better are lower GI rices (basmati is lower but there are some lower) Much better nutritionally is brown rice (white rice has been stripped of almost everything) Personally (as someone who uses insulin but believe it or not, what I eat does make a difference) I find a commercial mixture of brown, wild and basmati is the best for me
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It was plain boiled rice. I can accept that eating it for a couple of months can increase the sensitivity to it. I suppose I do have an axe to grind. I know that some people choose to follow the NHS plate. Fair enough if it works and you are happy go for it. My beef is really with those healthcare people who insist that I must each starchy carbs with every meal and get very confrontational about my diet despite my success in reducing bs and weight. Attitudes range from confrontational to sulking and refusing to see me (dn). Some have insisted that I go on an "education" course - obviously that will make me see the error of my ways! Nobody has given me a reason why they're right and I'm wrong. If they are all so sure there should be oodles of reasons. If i do not keep my bs between 5 and 7.5 I feel really ill. Dizzy, disorientated, struggle to string a sentence together. I suspected the rice might have an adverse effect but I was doing it to gather evidence to support my diet. Although I don't think I should have to bearing in my mind the results speak for themselves!
 
I'm the same Scandi, I put it down to the fact that I my body isn't used to carbs anymore. If I have few too many I just zonk on the sofa.
 
Hi Scandi, Well said, I am newly diagnosed in Feb this year and haven't yet seen a dietician or any dietary advice from my DSN, I am due for my next HbA1c test next month, so I am waiting to see what my DSN says, should be interesting as I have been following the LCHF diet which has really lowered my bs thanks to all the advice I have received on this forum. I have also been booked on the X-pert course which starts in May. However, if they follow the NHS they won't convert me, but I might be able to help some other diabetics on the course and get them to sign up here. Great place to be for support.

Marilyn
 
Scandichic said:
My beef is really with those healthcare people who insist that I must each starchy carbs with every meal and get very confrontational about my diet despite my success in reducing bs and weight. .... If i do not keep my bs between 5 and 7.5 I feel really ill. Dizzy, disorientated, struggle to string a sentence together. I suspected the rice might have an adverse effect but I was doing it to gather evidence to support my diet. Although I don't think I should have to bearing in my mind the results speak for themselves!
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In my experience, the way to convince people is to argue on their terms and keep it simple. Don't tell them all the readings, just the pre-prandial and the 2-hour (or rather the 2.5 hour, since that's higher). They are not taught what to make of readings at other times, so these will only confuse the issue and label you obsessive or neurotic. Also don't mention the dizziness etc: they are taught that medium-high BS is symptom-free, so these symptoms will be labelled psychosomatic. If you are neurotic or have psychosomatic symptoms your credibility is undermined and your evidence will be taken less seriously.

This advice isn't about what is actually happening to you, it's about presenting your case to best advantage.

Good luck.
Kate
 
dawnmc said:
I'm the same Scandi, I put it down to the fact that I my body isn't used to carbs anymore. If I have few too many I just zonk on the sofa.
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Don't you think that's worrying. - my body isn't used to carbs. If limited amounts of starchy carbs are so great then why do they make some of us feel so **** and why do we need to get used to them? Even my non diabetic husband felt bloated and windy. Note that I said some of us. Some people tolerate them just fine so if they want to eat them then that's fine. Just wish that people could be as tolerant of LCHF as I am of low GI or NHS health plate. By this I generally mean all those preachy HCPs.
 
I am no scientist or diabetes expert, but I am sure I have read that our bodies get used to the amount of carbs we consume at each meal and anticipates these amounts will stay fairly constant, so sends out just enough insulin to cope with what it anticipates it will need. If you suddenly increase your carbs at a particular meal there will be insufficient insulin to cope with it and therefore you will spike, no matter what that additional carb may be. I doubt your experiment can work at all in the short term until your body gets used to the extra carb intake and sends out some extra insulin to cope with it. This is why we are advised to consume roughly equal amounts of carbs at each meal.

If I am wrong on this, please feel free to shoot me down!
 
kesun said:
In my experience, the way to convince people is to argue on their terms and keep it simple. Don't tell them all the readings, just the pre-prandial and the 2-hour (or rather the 2.5 hour, since that's higher). They are not taught what to make of readings at other times, so these will only confuse the issue and label you obsessive or neurotic. Also don't mention the dizziness etc: they are taught that medium-high BS is symptom-free, so these symptoms will be labelled psychosomatic. If you are neurotic or have psychosomatic symptoms your credibility is undermined and your evidence will be taken less seriously.

This advice isn't about what is actually happening to you, it's about presenting your case to best advantage.

Good luck.
Kate
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And there in lies the problem - their training! They're also taught you can't go hypo on metformin when I have first hand experience that you can. I take on board what you have said. I will just mention pre and post prandial. It's just so infuriating as I know that I am neither obsessive or neurotic although I am starting to feel psychotic!
image.jpg
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I am no scientist or diabetes expert, but I am sure I have read that our bodies get used to the amount of carbs we consume at each meal and anticipates these amounts will stay fairly constant, so sends out just enough insulin to cope with what it anticipates it will need. If you suddenly increase your carbs at a particular meal there will be insufficient insulin to cope with it and therefore you will spike, no matter what that additional carb may be. I doubt your experiment can work at all in the short term until your body gets used to the extra carb intake and sends out some extra insulin to cope with it. This is why we are advised to consume roughly equal amounts of carbs at each meal.

If I am wrong on this, please feel free to shoot me down!
Click to expand...
I don't want to shoot anyone down - well maybe the rude receptionist, sulky dn and my doc! Lol! To my unscientific mind, if my body has to make adjustments to allow me to eat certain foods then it makes me wonder if it's a good idea to eat them in the first place. Because diabetes and diet is such a minefield then I'm just trying to negotiate my way through it and I know that by coming on this forum I can say what I think, what I've tried and that's ok. Sometimes I will be challenged which makes me think and sometimes alter my point of view. Sometimes people reinforce what I believe or present me with evidence when I've just had a gut feeling but no knowledge why - eg the insane notion of baking a cake with 1/2 sugar when Infact it isn't a good idea at all because of the flour as well as the sugar. Thank you for reading what I write and taking the time to come back to me. - this bit is directed to everyone who answers my posts. a BIG THANKYOU!
 
Scandichic said:
I am starting to feel psychotic!
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Ooh, be careful or they'll put you on antipsychotic drugs - many of which increase insulin resistance!:wideyed:

And then, of course, they'll give you more metformin to counteract the antipsychotics, which will make you madder still, leading to more meds ...

Kate
 
kesun said:
Ooh, be careful or they'll put you on antipsychotic drugs - many of which increase insulin resistance!:wideyed:

And then, of course, they'll give you more metformin to counteract the antipsychotics, which will make you madder still, leading to more meds ...

Kate
Click to expand...
image.jpg
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I am no scientist or diabetes expert, but I am sure I have read that our bodies get used to the amount of carbs we consume at each meal and anticipates these amounts will stay fairly constant, so sends out just enough insulin to cope with what it anticipates it will need. If you suddenly increase your carbs at a particular meal there will be insufficient insulin to cope with it and therefore you will spike, no matter what that additional carb may be. I doubt your experiment can work at all in the short term until your body gets used to the extra carb intake and sends out some extra insulin to cope with it. This is why we are advised to consume roughly equal amounts of carbs at each meal.

If I am wrong on this, please feel free to shoot me down!
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I tried to show in the link I gave . The motivation was explanation , no more, no less :(
That was from the lancet but it's not as if low carb bloggers say any different.

If you took a glucose tolerance test while on a low carb or ketogenic diet, you would fail. If you need to take such a test (and you want it to be accurate), increase your carbohydrate intake to ~150g for a few days and then take the oral glucose tolerance test. The few days of increased carbohydrate intake will apparently let your body adapt to increased carbohydrate availability and your physiological insulin resistance will go away
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http://ketopia.com/physiological-insulin-resistance/



.'
 
phoenix said:
Yes, that's what I tried to show in the link I gave . The motivation was explanation , no more, no less :(
That was from the lancet but it's not as if low carb bloggers say any different.


http://ketopia.com/physiological-insulin-resistance/



.'
Click to expand...
So if I understand correctly, then the reason for the NHS approach is that reduced calories (ie low fat) will reduce the weight and higher starchy carb will decrease insulin resistance whereas LCHF causes your body to get its energy from burning fat and will not decrease insulin resistance? Can you give me more info please and correct any errors I have made?
 
noblehead said:
Blimey, just as well you didn't have 4 heaped tbsp of rice Scandichic :eek:
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:hilarious: sometimes I wish I was more scientific so that I could ensure I was making the correct choices and argue the toss with those bods who are making life so difficult at the mo! I'm such a stubbon old bint though and I need to know the reason why. I was always taught to question things (what would you expect from the daughter of two headteachers - I am the 3rd generation of teachers!) I didn't understand and not just follow things blindly. The response because I've said so generally makes me persist until I get answers and I have never found the question why intimidating. I also don't mind admitting to students that I don't know all the answers. Does that make me a freak? Lol!
 
Scandichic said:
Now 9.
Read earlier post. Meter 1 hour behind. Basically recorded results every half hour since 19:16.
19:16 is 5.6
19:49 is 7.2
20:16 is 8.3
20:45 is 9.5
21:16 is 8.4
21:45 is 9
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If those were my post meal results, I would be a very happy man indeed!

Tom
 
That wasn't the point of my post; it was merely to show why your one off rice eating could be predicted to cause a rise in glucose levels.
(the whys and wherefores of NHS guidelines require an essay, not a quick response! )
Here's a blog post , it summarises a recent presentation to the EASD. There is a link to the video in the post. http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=1069
Jim Mann (in the lecture) explains why the present European nutritional guidelines for diabetes say what they do about carbs and why he thinks that the info given from some sources (including by implication the NHS is confusing)
 
phoenix said:
That wasn't the point of my post; it was merely to show why your one off rice eating could be predicted to cause a rise in glucose levels.
(the whys and wherefores of NHS guidelines require an essay, not a quick response! )
Here's a blog post , it summarises a recent presentation to the EASD. There is a link to the video in the post. http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=1069
Jim Mann (in the lecture) explains why the present European nutritional guidelines for diabetes say what they do about carbs and why he thinks that the info given from some sources (including by implication the NHS is confusing)
Click to expand...
I understood the point of the post and I read your links. I think you might have misunderstood me. Following on from your point, my point is that if you have to almost become used to starchy carbs then are they a desirable food to eat in the first place? What nutritional value do they have other than a source of energy?As a diabetic, if the long term effect is that they have a negative effect on my body, then surely I should avoid them. Not one medical professional is able to give me a straight answer. I figured that if the HCPs with whom I come into contact cannot tell me why then perhaps if I demonstrate that they have a negative impact I might finally get an answer. I thought that I had asked you some reasonable questions?
 
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