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A1C cut-point to avoid diabetic complications

Not true.

Agree.
And the same goes for T2's on insulin.
Hi thanks for your input. Probably i put it wrongly that "hypos will only happen on high carb/high insulin diet", what i meant was that i came across several studies and it seems that on low carb diet people with T1 DM will experience less hypo events than on high carb, so that is my correction. If anyone interested to read more about this study, i have one that i can quote here but there are several others online, just need some digging.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30924570/

This is the summary here of the above link

Abstract
Aims: To compare the effects of a low carbohydrate diet (LCD < 100 g carbohydrate/d) and a high carbohydrate diet (HCD > 250 g carbohydrate/d) on glycaemic control and cardiovascular risk factors in adults with type 1 diabetes.

Materials and methods: In a randomized crossover study with two 12-week intervention arms separated by a 12-week washout, 14 participants using sensor-augmented insulin pumps were included. Individual meal plans meeting the carbohydrate criteria were made for each study participant. Actual carbohydrate intake was entered into the insulin pumps throughout the study.

Results: Ten participants completed the study. Daily carbohydrate intake during the two intervention periods was (mean ± standard deviation) 98 ± 11 g and 246 ± 34 g, respectively. Time spent in the range 3.9-10.0 mmol/L (primary outcome) did not differ between groups (LCD 68.6 ± 8.9% vs. HCD 65.3 ± 6.5%, P = 0.316). However, time spent <3.9 mmol/L was less (1.9 vs. 3.6%, P < 0.001) and glycaemic variability (assessed by coefficient of variation) was lower (32.7 vs. 37.5%, P = 0.013) during LCD. No events of severe hypoglycaemia were reported. Participants lost 2.0 ± 2.1 kg during LCD and gained 2.6 ± 1.8 kg during HCD (P = 0.001). No other cardiovascular risk factors, including fasting levels of lipids and inflammatory markers, were significantly affected.

Conclusions: Compared with an intake of 250 g of carbohydrate per day, restriction of carbohydrate intake to 100 g per day in adults with type 1 diabetes reduced time spent in hypoglycaemia, glycaemic variability and weight with no effect on cardiovascular risk factors.
 
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I would be very interested to hear more about your personal experiences with your glycaemic control, number of years of diabetes and any complications that developed or reversed.[/QUOTE]

Hi , i'm responding here not as a direct answer to your question but as an observation. I recognise your research as being something akin to my response to being diagnosed. In my case I went as far as doing an open university course in diabetes to find out what the hell is happening .... I also started a daily N=1 diary, noting every scrap of food /drink and anything which may affect my personal daily blood sugar readings including the weather! . After more than 4 years this personal data taken numerous times each day is of some value to me and sometimes I begin to think I have it understood. Other days its not so clear. I'd recommend it as it gives a small insight into how complex our situation is.
 
4/

I would be very interested to hear more about your personal experiences with your glycaemic control, number of years of diabetes and any complications that developed or reversed.

Hi , i'm responding here not as a direct answer to your question but as an observation. I recognise your research as being something akin to my response to being diagnosed. In my case I went as far as doing an open university course in diabetes to find out what the hell is happening .... I also started a daily N=1 diary, noting every scrap of food /drink and anything which may affect my personal daily blood sugar readings including the weather! . After more than 4 years this personal data taken numerous times each day is of some value to me and sometimes I begin to think I have it understood. Other days its not so clear. I'd recommend it as it gives a small insight into how complex our situation is.[/QUOTE]
Thank you It seems a lot of effort for so many year, well done. I would be very much interested to see the results of your experiences and variations if possible at all ?
 
Thank you for sharing your personal experience and definitely two thumbs up for keeping it at 6.3% after all these years..

I think you read it wrong after 40 years I have only just managed to get it down to 6.3, before a couple of years ago (ie when I got the libre) it was never even close to that.

Though one thing I will say is that basically no matter how much research you do, if you are not a T1 you will just not understand how much effort it takes and how unpredictable it can be
 
Sorry i meant to bringing it down to 6.3% after all these years of high a1c. I suppose uncontrolled older diabetes is harder to manage. Wish you all the best.
 
That sounds like a typical cycle of diabetics. Yes, you pointed it right, insulin resistance is the culprit, but may I ask does DM runs in your family as well ? I see you had a huge improvement and coming off meds from 135 to 47 and that definitely encourages me. I was diagnosed on Dec 23 with 78 or 9.3%. I wish you well and thank you for your detailed input.
 
This is by far the best collection of most of the CGM studies done to understand normal blood glucose levels in healthy population. This combines most of the recent research papers, so you can spare hours of research. Very informative and well written. Could come as a surprise, shock or disappointment (so was for me) but its the real picture. Because the normal blood sugars keep the complications away, i guess this is the right place to post this article?

https://www.levelshealth.com/blog/what-should-my-glucose-levels-be-ultimate-guide
 
Thank you for posting this - it is a great summary, but unfortunately doesn't provide much information on the dietary intake in most of these studies (possibly in the underlying papers?). I think most of us would agree that using a CGM to monitor maximum time in range, plus aiming for ideally lower "normal" average BG levels and small standard deviations is gold standard, but in practice this is much easier said than done.

Have done your in depth research as to what to aim for, do you have an agreed strategy with your health team as to how to consistently achieve this?
 
Here is the table of what are considered normal glucose ranges from the reference in post #28. I have converted the units.

In summary, based on ADA criteria, the IDF guidelines, a person’s glucose values are “normal” if they have fasting glucose <5.6 mmol/L and a post-meal glucose level <7.8 mmol/L. Taking into account additional research performed specifically using continuous glucose monitors, we can gain some more clarity on normal trends and can suggest that a nondiabetic, healthy individual can expect:

  • Fasting glucose levels between 4.4-4.8 mmol/L
  • Glucose levels between 3.9-6.7 mmol/L for approximately 90% of the day (and to rarely ever go above 7.8 mmol/L or below 3.3 mmol/L)
  • 24-hour mean glucose levels of around 4.9-5.8 mmol/L
  • Mean daytime glucose of 4.6-5.9 mmol/L
  • Mean nighttime glucose of 4.5-5.7 mmol/L
  • Mean post-meal glucose peaks ranging from 5.5 +/- 0.6 to 7.6 +/- 1.2 mmol/L
  • Time to post-meal glucose peak is around 46 minutes – 1 hour
These are not standardized criteria or ranges but can serve as a simple guide for what has been observed as normal in nondiabetic individuals.
 
Hi thanks for your feedback. Well i did read most of those studies and reference to each of em is given within the article so you can find out the food intake, but as far as i remember, these were typical food containing 50 gms of carbs per meal plus protein plus fat etc. For the past three months, my main research was on finding what is the actual normal level for today's person that i could aim for reducing my carbs. Now if you look at the extreme side (Dr. Bernstein and alike), they always compare your normal blood sugar with your hunter-gatherers who were on protein and leafy veggies most of their life with occasional fruits or honey so their sugar levels must be close to 83 mg/dl around the clock and i am sure their BG wont cross even 90 after meals.

With the invent of agriculture and availability of high-carb food on the go, definitely our habits and probably genes have changed as well. Egyptians are very advanced in research on diet and nutrition and during my last visit couple of months back they say that if you are maintaining anywhere between 95-105 (except the 2 hours after food) you should be all right. They also mentioned that your premeal readings should be same 2 hours post-prandial but doesn't matter if its 83 or 97. So if you start food at 97 or 100, if 2 hours post meal you can come down to 100 then you are fine. (all values in mg/dl)

Now several other research studies also suggest increase in neuropathic/CVD complications in non-diabetics as their fasting sugars start increasing above 85 mg/dl. Again per my understanding at 83 you get the least AGEs production and you get all natural chances of any illness. But i also believe that anywhere up to 120 mg/dl should be safe as long as you are physically active and have at least 150 minutes cardio a week. So one things compensates other. Now here is a very interesting reading from very normal population, probably you will find it in one of those study references in the article i posted above, cant remember which one, but just have a look at the pattern. No one came back to their pre-meal readings in 2 hours, probably it took them good 4-5 hours to come back to pre-meal levels. And these were absolutely normal population who had GTT test passed etc. So its a good thing to rest 4-5 hours before the next meal for diabetic and non-diabetic both to keep the insulin-sugar cycle in a balance and give some rest to ever-busy pancreas.

 
Thank you for the summary and the difference here is the word normal vs optimal. Normals are different for ADA, Endo Societies or Europeans but optimal are what are mentioned above.
 
Thank you for the summary and the difference here is the word normal vs optimal. Normals are different for ADA, Endo Societies or Europeans but optimal are what are mentioned above.
I don't know if I am agreeing with you or not, but the table I reproduced is labelled Summary Of Normal Glucose Ranges in the article and is the measured values of non-diabetics.
 
"For the past three months, my main research was on finding what is the actual normal level for today's person that i could aim for reducing my carbs." What about uncovering what could be optimal dietary approach rather than "normal", given increasing numbers of health experts are deciding that carbohydrate heavy diets although the norm, especial in SWD/SAD countries, are not healthy. I believe the genetic data shows our bodies' biochemistry is still in hunter gatherer mode (protein/fat based with long fasting intervals) - the switch to grain agriculture over the last 10,000 years is evolutionary wise extremely recent. Check out Dr Jason Fung and Benjamin Bikman as well as the excellent authors that you have already listed.

Please take care not to fall into the trap of false precision - most of physiological and clinical research is predicated on either well controlled double blinded trials (unfortunately usually short term, small samples and far from real life application) or very large long term population outcome studies. The error ranges on BG meters, even CGM, can easily be +/- 15%, so a reading of 100mg/dl could in reality be anything from 85-115. Also the risk ranges are population based - there are no hard predictors of how any single individual will tolerate or not elevated BGs.

Having done so much research reading, are you able to obtain to obtain a CGM or a BG meter with lots of strips to start your own N=1 experiment and to discover what triggers your own BG levels and how many carbs, if any, plus extended intervals between meals (no snacks) to keep them within levels you are happy with. Most of us will concur that this is a many year experiment!
 
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Kudos for you for doing your research.
I am type 1 and have already dammaged my eyes through erratic bg control yet it is still very hard for me to get my bg optimal on insulin.
Your research so far seems focused on the blood glucose centric way of looking at complications. I'd also recommend you look at the studies showing that treating type 2 s aggressively with drugs and exogenous insulin did not improve the incidence of complications. Jason Fung (Diabetes Code) and Ben Bikman (Why We Get Sick) bot atribute this to hyperinsulinemia/insulin resistance. Both those books are excellent and illustrate the conclusion of many low carbers here that getting insulin low is as important as getting blood sugars low.
 
I was asked for a repeat blood test in March 2019, which I couldn't due to my travel etc. Then Covid happened. I was now diagnosed on Dec 23rd 2020 with an a1c of 78. Upon asking i found my a1c in March 2019 was 53... That seems like I must be diabetic for few years now. So my experiments are still very limited but i am burning a lot of daily strips to understand my own body, not to forget that along with insulin resistance, i have family history of diabetes as well.

I have not checked my a1c as of yet which is due some time this month. However, i was able to keep my TIR within 90-130 most of the past three months. If what i understand, my a1c should be somewhere close to 40, fingers crossed.

I have been on SR Metformin 500 twice daily to get out of danger zone initially and now i have reduced it to just night time 500. Its been a week now and i have not seen any significant changes in my readings.

Trust me i did a LOT of experiments on myself, but to summarise it, this is what worked for me so far:

  • under 30 carbs a day, with least in the breakfast due to high insulin resistance in the morning.
  • i was initially consuming above 90 gms of protein / day but i found it kept my BGs stranded for hours. Now i have reduced it to about 60 gms and it worked well for me.
  • I eat veggies in all three meals, green/leafy/onions/mushrooms, you name it.
  • a recent experiment did help postprandial, which is 30 minutes bike riding (recumbent home-based bicycle) at a medium speed. So i do about 8-9 km in 30 minutes. I do it 30 minutes before my peak and it nicely reduces my BG about 1 mmol/l or about 15-20 mg/dl. One thing i noticed that because of slow acting carbs and protein diet, i peak 3 hours after meals.
  • no snacking/grazing between meals and all meals must be 4-5 hours apart
  • last meal 3 hours before bed time
  • to avoid dawn phenomenon, now i have reduced carbs in the dinner and added some protein - yoghurt works best for me (Fage/Royal) and i am consistently seeing FPGs close to 5 mmol/l
  • i use cream for tea/coffee instead of milk. i have started using decaf lately as i found caffeine did some disruption to my patterns.
  • I do an evening walk most of the days and some cardio 3-4 times a week.
  • no fruits except few berries here and there with yogurt

Basically that's it after so much tweaking and it seems to be working fine so far. Ah, and the most important thing i learnt was the meal portion sizes. Even eating lot of low carb veggies can affect your BG negatively because of incretin affect upon intestine expansion.

Finally a lot of water even if im not thirsty.

A recent experiment i started and it seems to be helping is cinnamon sticks in green/black tea.

Hope this helps.
 
Excellent point and i totally agree and have done a lot of reading and listening on that. I just didnt want to mix that topic in this one. This was mainly to focus on BGs and complications. I plan to do a detailed post on hyperinsulinemia as the root cause to prevent or cure diabetes. I am of the view that every person should be checked for his/her insulin levels as part of yearly medical exam to stop the process of metabolic disorder. Since i have discovered and learnt all this, i have checked BGs of lot of family/friends and several of them were clearly on their path to metabolic disorder (my estimates from their readings) and was able to convince them on reducing their carbs
 
I follow Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. My last HbA1c was 5.5% He suggests 5.3% or lower, to avoid complications. I'm working on it.
 
I follow Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. My last HbA1c was 5.5% He suggests 5.3% or lower, to avoid complications. I'm working on it.
That's a good example of T1 achieving optimal goals. Congratulation
 
@zamalik

another subject that you may find as useful and interesting as bg levels, is insulin resistance (IR) and its knock on effect, over time.
There are a whole raft of complications that arise from IR, including heart disease and strokes, cholesterol dysregulation and high blood pressure. Classic ‘metabolic syndrome’.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/cardiovascular-disease-missed-elephant-room
Personally, as someone with bg under reasonable control using diet, I have more concerns about IR causing complications than bg causing complications.
 
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