Advice please - re Kidney function and Protein.

[caroluk]

Hello Ladies and Gents

I have a couple of questions if that's okay.

Week before last i had a urine test done when i had my DN 3rd appointment and my urine showed a trace of protein so she sent the sample off for testing.

2 days later my Dr phoned me at home to say the sample showed a water infection and he was leaving me a script to collect - 500mg Ceflexin 3x day. ( I had no symptoms of UTI )

When at the drs he told me my liver and kidney function test for some reason hadnt been done so last Thursday i went and had that done. Today a letter from the drs saying phone to make an appointment regarding my blood test - So i managed to make one for this evening.

DN said my results were 51 and that on a scale of 1-5 my kidney function was a 3 and we really needed to get it too 2 - She then did my blood pressure which was 143/91 and said oh thats high i will test you again in afew minutes = 135/81 with a oh thats better :?

She then asked for a urine sample which i gave her and again there was protein.

I am now having a 2nd blood test on Monday morning as the Dr said he didnt want to go off one kidney test incase my UTI had affected it.

Question - result 51 is that bad ? Can i change it ? How?

Protein - What is it an how is it getting there? Can i do anything to not make i be there?Am i doing something wrong?

I am maintaining good BG levels after meals under 6.5 and often under 6

Apologies for all the questions just i was so flustered at the DN appointment and i am now really concerned and honestly worried.

There was talk of putting me on blood pressure lowring meds but i really want to avoid meds if this is something i can fix myself.

Thank you in advance.

Carol xxx

 

[caroluk]

Shamelessly bumping up my on post as it had slipped way down

Carol xxx

 

[hanadr]

In theory, tight BG control and reducing blood pressure should help protect your kidneys. However Some medicines can cause this problem. I take Benfotiamine and hope it helps

 

[Dennis]

Hi Carol,
The medical term for protein in your urine is Proteinuria, and it can be caused by quite a few different things. Generally protein is filtered out of your urine by your kidneys. If you have excess amounts of protein in the urine then it shows your kidneys are not doing their job correctly and can mean that something's wrong with the kidneys (kidney disease, nephrotic syndrome, preeclampsia, etc). Pregnant women will also often have larger amounts of protein in the urine.

Some things that can affect the level of protein in your urine are if you've just completed a strenuous workout, if you have a UTI (urinary tract infection), or if you've been sick and had a fever.

This link will give you a lot more information on the subject.
http://www.kidneyresearchuk.org/content/view/493/652

 

[caroluk]

Thank you for your replies I will take a good look at the link.

Carol xx

 

[phoenix]

I wrote an answer to this and lost it into the ether, so here goes again.

Stage 3 is a bit of a misnomer, stage 1 covers normal function but with some predisposition to CKD,
stage 2 mild impairment ( and many peoples levels reduce as they age) which may never become worse .
Stage 3 covers GFR levels 30-59mls/min It is moderate impairment It is normally treated by blood presssure control, observation and control of other risk factors ie your diabetes. In other words its a wake up call and far better to be found out.
Your doctor is right to double check before proceeding with anymore investigations or treatment.
When my creatine clearance came back at 61, I was worried since it was near to the stage 3 threshold and time itself can cause impairment. My doctor prescribed Aprovel at a low dose even though I don't have BP needing treatment.(I wore a 24 hour monitor to check) It is a blood pressure medicine , an angiotensin II receptor antagonist, many diabetics are prescribed this (or others called ACE inhibitors) to 'protect their kidneys. These drugs seem to have a good safety record, though some people develop a cough on the ACE inhibitors.
I also reduced salt and kept a watch on the amount of protein in my diet. I already had a low HBA1c. My test this year came back at 69 . To be honest I don't know whether thats a real improvment or whether the test simply shows a variation in the amount of exercise I did the day before the test but its certainly not deteriorated.

I hesitated to mentioned the protein reduction as I realise it may be a bit controversial on this forum. I started being a bit more careful of my intake after quite a lot of research. It does appear that people with reduced function may do better to steer away from a high protein diet. (though a very low protein one doesn't appear to be necessary either, thank goodness)
More info on diet

http://renux.dmed.ed.ac.uk/EdREN/EdRenINFObits/dietFailingKid.html

 

[bonerp]

so could using protein shakes cause additional problems in urine tests?? So if I had a problem with the old kidneys, could this stuff be causing further damage??

I use this stuff as I use the gym a bit and last week was told as part of a routine test that there was a trace of protein in my pee. I've now had to provide one yesterday am and if I remember I'll take another up tomorrow.

Paul

 

[ChezMorgan]

I have been diagosed with proteinuria, my urine is VERY bubbly and frothy :shock: . I have had kidney scans and blood tests and of course urine tests, plus the 24hr urine test. All show up normal, apart from the protein content. Obviously there is something going on with my kidneys but the hospital have yet to find anything. :roll:

 

[caroluk]

Phoenix,

Thank you for that it was very interesting to read.

And yes i agree on it being a wake up call and i would be interested in a 24 hour BP monitor check - Can i request this and does it show what times of the day it goes up etc ?

Carol xx

 

[bonerp]

Carol,
Ask ur gp to do a 24 hr test. Not something to look forward to! I took mine off at midnight otherwise I'd never have got any sleep lol.

By the way boots currently are doing BP monitors half price!

Paul

 

[Bubsy Malone]

Too late bonerp - I got mine half price last year!

 

[phoenix]

Not something to look forward to! I took mine off at midnight otherwise I'd never have got any sleep lol.

Mine was programmed to only work once an hour during the night so it wasn't too bad!

 

[SilverAndEbony]

phoneix

Can I ask about the stages you wrote about? What exactly are they? I mean, I interpreted what Carol wrote to mean that on a scale of 1 to 5, her urine test results put her in the 3 bracket. 1 being that there's no protien, 5 being there's loads. Presumably very high levels?
I don't understand where stage 1 - 3 fit's into that.

I know that infections like UTIs can cause bacteria to end up in our urine, and my personal experience or pre-diagnosis thrush. So your kidneys maybe ok, but you've got an infection and that's where the proteins have come from. I was in the same position. The infection was sorted out, and my urine tests didn't show protein any more. It's worth looking at doing what you can to reduce the work of your kidneys, though!
My point is, don't panic! Yup - that's what I though too
If I knew how to NOT panic, I wouldn't BE panicking :lol:
Wait and see what effect sorting out the infection has. But spend the time while you wait looking at how to protect your kidneys. :wink:

All I know about protein and kidneys is that, when my little old cat had kidney disease, every bit of protein he ate harmed his kidneys more. Because of them being too diseased to deal with the amino acids. He was on a prescription low-protein diet, which gave him just enough protein, and reduced the amount of damage a meal had. I think diets like Atkins aren't recommended for people with kidney disease - I may be wrong. But that's what I've understood.
If your kidneys are OK, I 'm guessing that high-protein diets aren't a problem. But I'd have to ask an expert to be sure!

 

[phoenix]

Can I ask about the stages you wrote about? What exactly are they? I mean, I interpreted what Carol wrote to mean that on a scale of 1 to 5, her urine test results put her in the 3 bracket. 1 being that there's no protien, 5 being there's loads. Presumably very high levels?
I don't understand where stage 1 - 3 fit's into that.

Obviously didn't explain too well. (the bit about minsnomer was that stage one your kidneys are filtering well)
Heres a linkthat includes the official stage chart
http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40025300/

You are right that high protein diets like Atkins are not advised for people with kidney impairment. The link I gave before has a specific warning about it. (which I've just realised I didin't put in properly)
http://renux.dmed.ed.ac.uk/EdREN/EdRenINFObits/dietFailingKid.html
It also explains that it is modern medication and proceedures that allow a moderate protein diet. If kidney function becomes severe and dialysis is necessary but not done for some reason, then a low protein diet is sugggested. Sadly your cat was probably in this position.

As to whether high protein diets are a good idea for people with diabetes and potential renal problems .
This case study and analysis discusses the question and gives many references worth following up. It is from an ADA journal,
http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/23/1/46

It is not intented to start a slanging match. Please read it and take the info alongside others presented on this forum and make your own opinion.

 

[SilverAndEbony]

Hi Phoenix,

I'm sorry if my questions were interpreted as potentially starting a slanging match :cry:
I apologise if I gave that impression.
I am genuinely interested in finding out more about the low-carb diet. I obviously am a bit wary of jumping in and giving up all my favourite hi-carb meals!
Which probably aren't too good for me anyway!

Your links took me to some very interesting information - thanks for posting them. I must admit it's that I worry about complications of some of my other health problems every day, rather than the possible complications caused by my diabetes. Which is bizarre as I can actually do something about my BG levels, but some of the other stuff will happen whatever I do about it. Pretty much, anyway. My neurologist's advise is to keep my diabetes, blood pressure and weight under control. And wait to see what happens with the other neurological problems. Which may be anything, or nothing. At least with diabetes I've got a pretty clear idea of what is like to happen if I don't keep my GB under control.

Thanks for your info - it's very interesting and informative.

Take Care,

E

 

[phoenix]

Hi Phoenix,

I'm sorry if my questions were interpreted as potentially starting a slanging match :cry:
I apologise if I gave that impression.

Take Care,

E

whoops, the remark wasn't directed at you. Maybe, I'm just being supersensivtive but I've noticed that anybody who warns about a possible problem with a low carb diet tends to end up in the middle of an argument. Thats what I wanted and still want to avoid.