And so it begins: Eat less meat or we’ll make you.

Oldvatr said:

I wonder what this thread would read like if there were no vegan friendly sources of insulin and we were being threatened with losing porcine insulin forever.

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THIS!!!
I have no problems with people wanting to be vegan. I respect their choice.
My food is my Medicine. It is NOT a choice.

Tipetoo said:

We have plenty of room to live in, if you are tough enough to live in the bush.

Australia exports a lot of live cattle, sheep from country that is basically desert, similar to the pix below of cattle on a muster.

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You do, but how much will remain habitable? Great barbecue potential though

Hotpepper20000 said:

I agree.
However, the cattle that graze here in my province eat the grass where nothing else grows. Not beans, vegetables or even trees.
I fail to see how trucking vegetables from other regions is better for the environment.
We have to eat. Soy beans and avocados with all the fertilizer and water they use for growing and fuel for transportation are not better in preventing climate change. The science is flawed.

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Listened to Minnette Walters (head of Farmers' Union) very good points on Radio 4 yesterday I think in response to the idea of reducing our land use to animals/reducing nos. of farmed animals by 10% namely that our food is for enjoyment and health. She went on to suggest we should focus on eating whole foods. As we have a maritime climate in the UK, the land is best suited to raising grazing animals who do a good job of converting grass into nutritious protein. Many vegetarian foods tend to be highly processed and some carry a high carbon footprint (almonds and avocados) and not environmentally friendly where they are grown.
I can only assume that the government committee simply cut and paste a template on demonising animal produce under the guise of being environmentally friendly.

lucylocket61 said:

For us diet controlled type 2 diabetics this is not good. And unless the NHS accepts that our diet is a medical necessity, we are stuffed when it comes to controlling our diabetes.

Chicken and pork is still meat and still comes under the new agricultural policy.

I can't seem to be able to get people, even on here, to understand how awful this is for diabetics who use diet as a big part of our control.

It's the equivalent of type I diabetics being told their insulin will be rationed.

We type 2s may die more slowly with an uncontrolled diet, but die we will, after suffering horrendous complications unnecessarily.

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So....persuade all the people you know and more to drop fossil fuel consumption. Then meat eaters (including myself) can chomp away as ever.

(As someone who has spent a lifetime in the oil and gas industry, I don’t say that too easily as it puts me out of work)

Listlad said:

So....persuade all the people you know and more to drop fossil fuel consumption. Then meat eaters (including myself) can chomp away as ever.

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It's not an either/or. The legislation has already been put into place on agricultural policy. It has already started, regardless of what happens about fossil fuels.

What is hard to understand about this? We are not being given time to see if other things work first, and then looking at food types. The food changes are already being set into motion.

lucylocket61 said:

It's not an either/or. The legislation has already been put into place on agricultural policy. It has already started, regardless of what happens about fossil fuels.

What is hard to understand about this? We are not being given time to see if other things work first, and then looking at food types. The food changes are already being set into motion.

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Climate change is also at an advanced stage. The “clathrate gun” will have a horrendous effect on the planet, even in Australia. Many people will not survive to eat, let alone eat meat. Have a read about the “clathrate gun” which comprise eye wateringly huge amounts of methane locked up within ice at the bottom of the oceans and in the tundra below the surface. As the planet warms methane will be released in quantities that will dwarf what has gone before. Diet and meat eating becomes secondary to this.

Tipetoo said:

The majority of Australians live around the coastline, I worked in Mt Isa in north west Queensland for twenty years to make money. I was involved in the meat industry both retail and wholesale, then I worked at Mt Isa Mines before I left and moved to the coast.

The majority of the cattle and sheep live stock are out in the bush as said I before, pig,, dairy cattle, chook farms are near the coast.

Before I forget, we do not pay for a television licences either...

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Australia is particularly vulnerable owing to its semi arid and arid climate in the first instance.

Listlad said:

Climate change is also at an advanced stage. The “clathrate gun” will have a horrendous effect on the planet, even in Australia. Many people will not survive to eat, let alone eat meat. Have a read about the “clathrate gun” which comprise eye wateringly huge amounts of methane locked up within ice at the bottom of the oceans and in the tundra below the surface. As the planet warms methane will be released in quantities that will dwarf what has gone before. Diet and meat eating becomes secondary to this.

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In 50-100 years. I am talking about the here and now. And the health of many. It isn't a race to see who is willing to sacrifice most in the name of climate change.

It's that huge changes in farming are being brought in with conflicting research and no regard for any potential harm to the food production and cycle of the planet.

Get a grip.
This isn't about climate change, it is about shutting down the UK meat industry so we have to buy our meat from the USA.

Tipetoo said:

The UK can always come cap in hand to it's former colonies and ask nicely for a trade agreement to supply meat etc. I know what the answer will be...

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The answer will be "That'll do nicely. Kerching!!"

One bizarre thing is that NZ lamb was cheaper in the UK than in NZ last time we went over to visit.
Still can't get my head round the logic of that.

lucylocket61 said:

In 50-100 years. I am talking about the here and now. And the health of many. It isn't a race to see who is willing to sacrifice most in the name of climate change.

It's that huge changes in farming are being brought in with conflicting research and no regard for any potential harm to the food production and cycle of the planet.

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Should we not consider the health of the planet for our children’s and grandchildren’s sake?

If the planet is not healthy there will be no life.

Listlad said:

Should we not consider the health of the planet for our children’s and grandchildren’s sake?

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Should we not also consider the health of all the type 2 diabetics in existence right now?

You are trying to make our perfectly reasonable need to have access to foods which are essential for controlling our medical conditions look selfish.

It's not. Requiring and asking for reasonable accommodations and available foods for medical reasons is not selfish.

Tipetoo said:

The aboriginal people have lived here in Australia for over forty thousand years with no problems in these condition eating meat, they did not whine and carry on about kangaroo or emu farts and belches.

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Yes but it is going to get hotter and drier.

Listlad said:

If the planet is not healthy there will be no life.

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Not eating a prime rib steak isn’t going to make the planet healthy.

I wonder if the survivors of the Ice Age blamed the dinosaurs?

Some of us have warned for months and almost been told to shut up, or by those that have swallowed the cool-aid, eat the alternative which increases our blood glucose. Now it can again be seen in print and the ramping up of channel to channel TV programs. It is the strangest thing that those of us who rely on meat to obtain good blood sugars would be forced to be sicker. The powerful elements behind all of this including a certain person allowed to speak at Davos think they are on the road to victory. They have a couple of issues:

1. We can prove collectively that we cannot replace the most bio-available protein with lentils and the like without jacking up our blood glucose as a fact. This is our "trump" card, despite what Joey said on Veganvile last night when he said it was a choice. Maybe for the circa 12% who are metabolically capable. We just need to show this is the case. Christmas examples do this easily and most of our n=1's (certainly mine).
2. We can prove carbon neutral regenerative agriculture - white oak pastures is an example with a certificate to prove it, whilst the Savoury foundation has stacks of real working farms showing what can (and should be done). "We" have allowed the "Game Changer" type to tell half truths and dominate the agenda to the point of getting our children to skip school to shill for fake food without knowing it amongst a bigger cause - clever.
3. Type 2 Diabetics in remission or close (or Type 1's who chose to low carb) hold the key, as most I would suggest have tried like me a more plant based diet and know the impact on blood sugars, insulin and trigs - my lab results and glucose monitors do not lie. We are some of the most medically tested persons in the world and have a vested interest in knowing what works, this is a powerful story - the percentage that successfully do the other thing within our population is minute. It is simple, mobilise and tell the story; if 50% of Americans are either Type 2 or pre-diabetic, how many are the same in the UK... and if the Kraft test were used how many are broken but do not know.
4. If we look at who mainly benefited from ....ganuary isn't it crystal clear it was junk food companies, not whole food producers.

A potential strategy is for us to engineer a way to put meat, fish and dairy on trial and relate this to being a requirement for putting Type 2 into remission, with a central question of should this be our human right; a few weeks ago a Vegan was able to get protected status for Veganism, it should be possible to protect my right to health. Prof Tim Noakes and Gary Fetke were able to defeat the powerful with proof. We can show that "our" method works better than Dr Neal Bernard’s with facts, and that animal agriculture is the only natural way to maintain soil health and perversely the nutrients within plants....aaaaarh. My strategy would be to ensure our British hero’s such as the Unwins etc, get a chance to talk as much as James Wilkes, who has been able to spread the Games Changers on every single outlet with only Piers Morgan challenging him.


I will be doing my little bit on February 14th, an audience, video, press etc, which is almost 1.5 years’ worth of work, everyone who cares should do what they can, and provide support to those who are prepared to put up and not shut up. If you need an example of what 2 relative newbies can do, check out Mark "Smelly" Bell on YouTube and his Facebook Group (loads of success this month and he is on video reversing his mother-in-laws Type 2 (he reversed his pre-diabetes, and gets 4.3 fbg on meat) and Dr Shawn Baker on Meatrx. Both these guys are in the sports sector and have inspired lots to reverse their diabetes and other conditions over time and especially in World Carnivore Month. All of this is great but it needs coordination and organisation. Points 1 to 3 are a virus that cannot be stopped if deployed correctly, because it is the truth.


It is strange, the only thing that has slowed down the meatless agenda, is Trump's climate change position ("our" fate would have been signed and sealed if he were on board with Greta), as the shills have shoe horned the worldwide 14% agriculture figure into this space front and centre (strange this number out ranks 86%... its always the cows). As the UK and US run at about 3% for methane (which is constant and lasts 10 years, compared to 100's for other polluters), why not export this knowledge to the less efficient emerging economies...is that too sensible.


I cannot afford to exercise for 4 hours a day to be on the boarder of remission and eat effectively lentils, beans, whole grains, sweet fruit and the like, when I can eat a single item that is proven to be healthy in our tested population. I cannot find the reference @bulkbiker is onto something, I know 100% the formulas that are used for climate change have been altered – I want full disclosure on all claims and all methods explained. I applaud clean initiatives, but we do not have perpetual motion so even electric cars have problems. Food waste is a massive issue, those who do close to carnivore tend to eat once or twice a day, and I know I speak for all – no wastage. No James Wilkes I will not get my B12 from a pill.

They lied about low fat, then told us you are not doing it right, move more eat less, now do 3 600 calorie meals with 2 100 calorie snacks, now Eat Lancet / go Vegan. My job is to try to make those better at public speaking than me get heard on prime time, I will be doing all sorts to make this happen (all legal of course).

Hotpepper20000 said:

THIS!!!
I have no problems with people wanting to be vegan. I respect their choice.
My food is my Medicine. It is NOT a choice.

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And you can prove this for around a tenner, with a blood glucose monitor. This is the sword of truth.