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Any suggestions to avoid a 2am liver dump?

Brunneria

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,884
Location
Lincolnshire
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I've only had my Libre a week, but one of the revelations it has shown is that every night, around 2-2.30 am, my bg dips low enough to trigger a liver dump that sends my bg rising and falling in waves for the next 6 hours.

By some strange coincidence ;) 2.30am is a time i often wake up, too hot, with sweaty knees, trundle to the loo (whether i need it or not), then I go back to sleep til 6.30.

I am now suspecting the liver dump and the wakeup are connected. :rolleyes:

Anyone got any suggestions on avoiding this?

Over the last week, i have:
  • Eaten LCHF almost all the time
  • Fasted from 7pm one day
  • Had low carb hot choc at 10.30 one day
  • Had kefir at 11pm 3 times
  • Had a spoon of peanut butter at 11ish one day

And regardless of what I do, every night, that dip-and-liver-dump happens.
I'm hoping no one uses the dreaded exercise word, but i realise it may be a forlorn hope.
(By the way, I am usually very low carb/ketogenic and walk the dogs, usually at lunchtime, for 30-60 mins.)
 
try and see if a some protein before going to bed helps. That should give you a small release so your liver may not need to dump. You may find it makes things worse but you don't know unless you try
 
I'm pretty certain I wouldn't do it myself, but I wonder what impact a spoonful of cream might have, when you get up in the night.

Whilst it might not prevent the liver dump, it might stop or pause it, once the cream gets into your system. I'm not sure how I would tackle safe storage of the cream, close to bed, or how palatable it would be.

(Not an ideal oral health suggestion either...........)
 
The only way I can get a nice low fbg is to low carb all day (25g or lower) then not eat after my evening meal round to the following morning. This works best if my evening meal is early -around 5-6pm-and if I eat the majority of my carbs at lunch.

I used to get the hot and sweaty wake-ups in the early hours but I always put it down to nocturnal 'tropical moments' . Maybe I was wrong.
 
Chook said:
The only way I can get a nice low fbg is to low carb all day (25g or lower) then not eat after my evening meal round to the following morning. This works best if my evening meal is early -around 5-6pm-and if I eat the majority of my carbs at lunch.

I used to get the hot and sweaty wake-ups in the early hours but I always put it down to nocturnal 'tropical moments' . Maybe I was wrong.
Click to expand...

I have been thinking it was the tropical moment thing (i am nearly 49), but the timing is soooo consistent. Will let you know how it goes.
AndBreathe said:
I'm pretty certain I wouldn't do it myself, but I wonder what impact a spoonful of cream might have, when you get up in the night.

Whilst it might not prevent the liver dump, it might stop or pause it, once the cream gets into your system. I'm not sure how I would tackle safe storage of the cream, close to bed, or how palatable it would be.

(Not an ideal oral health suggestion either...........)
Click to expand...

I will see how tonight's protein goes, and try that tomorrow. Thank you.
 
Because of sleep disruption, I had the sleep apnoea test, and other needless and unnecessary sleeping tablets and of course, I had to look up on the web loads of stuff that would try and help me!
So, one of the things I discovered was that during the stages of sleep, the body tries to repair and revitalise itself by releasing hormones and helps your body survive through the fasting till breakfast, the liver will also give you excess glucose as in dawn phenomenon. Your liver is just upping its levels to make sure you have energy. Why it doesn't get it from muscle fat as in ketosis, I don't know!
This is one of the things that I've noticed, as in fasting, that my blood glucose levels goes nowhere until I eat!
So it might work in reverse for you.
I have a fast to give my body a rest! And I feel the benefits!
If your levels are ok, then forget about eating anything at all for about three hours before bed and see what happens! As long as you don't go hypo, it should be ok!
Also if you have a short dog walk before bed, say ten minutes, this will help relax you and use up any excess hormones rattling around!

I would love to see, why, if I start eating, I have to keep eating till I sleep?
And if I deliberately fast, I don't?
I would like to track that overnight!
 
You had to say the exercise word, didn't you noshy?
Humph!

Thanks for the other suggestions though ;)
 
I hope it's not 'tropical moments' for you as when that starts, literally everything is affected and life becomes very unpredictable.

Yes, I'm the same as @nosher8355, once I start snacking I can't stop - so it's better not to start.

Nor sure me or my dogs would appreciate the dredded e word after their evening meal. I've tried taking them out when I get home from work at 10.30 and they just yawn and ignore me.
 
Have you thought it may be your bladder? A full or nearly full bladder may well cause a rise in BG as your body is stressed. You say you trundle to the loo whether you need to or not, but it could be that you do need to without realising it because it isn't yet 100% urgent, but nontheless your liver thinks it is. I can't really explain what I mean properly. Perhaps cut the fluids a bit in the evening?
 
I think the loo trip is habit. Can't remember the last time I needed it.
Sort of: Ping! I'm awake! So i trundle down to the bathroom because why else would you wake up?

If you have a look at the screenshots i posted in this thread, it shows the bg drop, followed by the liver dump, like clockwork. Think the bladder thing is a knock on effect, not a cause...
 
Brunneria said:
I think the loo trip is habit. Can't remember the last time I needed it.
Sort of: Ping! I'm awake! So i trundle down to the bathroom because why else would you wake up?

If you have a look at the screenshots i posted in this thread, it shows the bg drop, followed by the liver dump, like clockwork. Think the bladder thing is a knock on effect, not a cause...
Click to expand...
Yep, that's me, regular as clockwork, no matter how much I drink!
 
Mafat said:
Brunneria-

You may wish to read further on Liver Dump-AKA-The Dawn Phenomenon -please visit following link or search for Dr.Jason Fung's blog :
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

In my case I have seen lots of positive changes in morning fasting blood sugar after I started Fasting +LCHF + HIIT Exercise & slow release Metformin. You may wish to check with your GP on Metformin-SR.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I have been doing a fat fast variant of Intermittent Fasting for about 6 months now. :)

Basically eating lunch and dinner within an 8 hour window (LCHF) and having a no carb breakfast of coffee n cream. (I've only been snacking late night this last week, in an attempt to remove the 2am liver dump)

It is great for bg control, but has made absolutely no impact on my DP (Dawn Phenomenon), or my sensitivity to carbs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Brunneria, it sounds like wake up phenomenon rather than dp. Basically, as soon as you get out of being flat, and because it's the middle of the night, your stress hormones kick in to give you the energy to do something, resulting in the liver dump. I've had a look at your other posts and you don't get the liver dump every night I noticed...

What might resolve it is simply not getting up and going back to sleep...
 
Looking at the graphs, you go low, then your liver, quite rightly, does it's best to correct what it sees as a potential hypo.
What is the exact time you wake, compared to your bg reading?
Is it on the peak, or the previous trough, or somewhere in between?
 
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