Apple cider and metformin

mrs gimli said:

Hi does anyone take apple cider and metformin.
My sugers are on the high side.
Lazyness on my part during lockdown and not being at work.
Back on low card strict from tonight no time like present.
Want to try apple cider too

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Toby789 said:

Walking around the block every night and a low carb diet will do you a more good than drinking vinegar - but vinegar is natural and it won't harm you. It seems to be me as an outsider diabetic who knows a number of T2DMs that the T2DM world is full of people desperately pushing leaves and organic food and enzymes and lots of other things on me as the next big thing. I politely explain that they won't work on me (and impolitely and silently blame the internet!), but I think this is a deeper thing for T2DMs. T2DM is basically lifestyle caused, and caused by too enjoyable a life (no judgment, good on them I say!). However, when something like T2DM turns up, and the answer is changing that too good life for something different, many T2DMs turn to a psychological prop to try to keep up their old life (let's face it, in many ways the old life was more fun - who doesn't love donuts?). So the biggest hurdle for T2DMs is the mental discipline of overcoming old habits.

All a roundabout way of suggesting that things like vinegar will not harm you but probably not do any good either, and certainly far less good than regular moderate enjoyable exercise (who doesn't enjoy walking around the neighbourhood looking into people's windows when they are honest?) and cutting down on processed foods. that is easier said than done - keep a food log and tell a friend, that will make it much much easier to achieve.

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Toby789 said:

T2DM is basically lifestyle caused,

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Toby789 said:

You may have missed my express words about no judgement - I meant that. It is a slight overstatement to say that there are genetic causes for T2 - there are correlations. My point remains - too many diabetics (and non diabetics for that matter) get too caught up in a search for a deus ex machina - like apple cider vinegar and various dodgy enzymes ordered from the internet. Apple cider vinegar is basically an internet cure for everything (which in itself calls it into question) pushed on instagram. For non diabetics, this quack stuff usually causes no harm. Alas for us it does because it can lead to people letting go of the self-control we have to exercise every day. There is unfortunately no deus ex machina. It is hard work to resist temptation in the west, as we are assailed on all sides by temptation and junk food. And junk food tastes so good. But apple cider vinegar won't fix this.

There is nothing wrong with generalisations. All science and indeed all human knowledge rests upon them.

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Toby789 said:

Sorry but I don't agree - the whole mask debate is ridiculous generally and a bad analogy (there is no real evidence yet that masks do the things ascribed to them - they still need to be viewed as placebo/magic, which can have an important effect in calming people down in this age of fact-free hysteria) .

The post hoc ergo propter hoc logic fallacy is still a fallacy. A placebo can have an important psychological effect but it cannot by definition have a physical effect on blood sugar (I suspect that people who drink apple cider vinegar are more likely to be cautious with their food intake and that is what leads to the reduced BGLs).

It cannot harm you (except maybe your teeth!) but my original point stands - which is the deus ex machina issue is a big deal, especially in the days of people mistaking passion for knowledge (we alas live in these days). Too many diabetics push magic cures they read about on the internet, with known and potentially very serious side effects and risk. Frankl calls it the delusion of reprieve (and we are seeing it now with masks and vaccines in the outside world).

I understand that things like apple cider vinegar represents an escape from the often onerous drudgery of unfortunately necessary constant tinkering with your body, and a wistful desire to return to the old life of being able to eat anything without worry, but it is a dream, and a dangerous one.

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JoKalsbeek said:

Can I respectfully disagree? The blame-game isn't going to help anyone. I didn't glutton myself into T2, and neither did a lot of other people. It's a metabolic, genetic condition. We just can't process carbs properly. I have PCOS, which causes insulin resistance, and T2 runs in my family on dad's side. Double whammy, there was no escaping the T2 eventually. Others have medicinal reasons for T2, but all in all, no, we did not bring this upon ourselves. Speaking for myself, I barely ate at one point, only crammed down what my dietician told me to, which was low fat, high carb... Making things exponentially worse.

Really, be careful about the whole "you brought this on yourself with donuts" thing, because that just doesn't ring true and it's one heck of a generalisation. Not to mention a hurtful one that keeps people from asking for help out of misplaced feelings of shame.

There's no shame in this. Not at all.

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