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Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

DavidGrahamJones

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Whatever 'normal' is. My wife has been playing tennis and golf since they could and I thought I'd try and get back into playing some golf as well.

I might be over cautious, so what, there's nothing wrong in that, it's better than throwing caution to the wind. What I saw this morning was a lot of people, not wearing masks and apart from not being able to use the club house for refreshments and having to 'checkin' through a window, rather than queue up in the pro shop, it was like nothing was wrong. There was certainly no social distancing and I was wondering "has this virus lost it's strength or aren't people breathing out like they used to".

There doesn't seem to be a common approach, I notice that even our local bus drivers are working without any protection and they must face many members of the public, without having a clue about their general health. As long ago as May 13th they were saying 33 London bus drivers have died. What that figure must be like nationwide, who knows. I understand the need to 'get the economy going' but shouldn't there be greater use of masks.

Whinge over. Stay safe everyone, take care.
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
33 London bus drivers have died
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Consider how many London bus drivers there are, how old many of them are, and what their BMI is, along with being a bus driver increasing the risk of someone having DM2. Also consider how much the infection risk has now reduced, the risk of someone comming into contact with an infected person is now much lower then the weeks before the lockdown.
 

So far as my fairly extensive reading has indicated risks of COVID transmission outdoors are virtually zero. Superspreader events have tended to be of long duration and indoors.
Being outdoors in the sun will also boost your Vit D levels which is also shown to be beneficial so I'm guessing golfing is likely extra unrisky.
 
We shouldn't be returning to "normal". We can go out, play some outdoor games, go shopping etc, but we shouldn't be back to normal. The problem is, people being people, they forget, or choose to ignore, the precautions we are all supposed to take. We will not be back to normal till we have a vaccine that works for everyone.
 
Dr Muge Cevik, clinical academic fellow in infectious diseases and medical virology at the University of St Andrews, has analysed different data sets to find that close and prolonged contact is required for Covid-19 transmission.
She confirmed that “by far the transmission risk is higher in close contact and in crowded indoor environments”.
But she warned that if people gather and spend a long time together in an outdoor space, without maintaining personal hygiene, transmission of Covid-19 is still possible.
“People need to keep in mind that not all outdoor activities are created equal. For instance, passing by someone or a brief conversation does not constitute the same risk as having a party or gathering with friends and family who are sharing food.”
 
I am fearfull about indoor pubs etc opening and people spending time with friends/families inside, along with office workers stopping working from home resulting in increased transmission. None of the rules that have been relexed so far concerns me.

I see the risk of a 2nd wave in about October as the weather results in people being inside more. Nothing we do to reduce case numbers now will have much effect on thst risk, as it only takes 1 infected person to trigger a indoor superspeader chain.
 

Ah, but at least we will know where those renewed cases are because of the track & trace system....oh...wait....
 
Some ten or 15 years ago (so the details are now a bit vague), I went on a risk assessment course. Basically you assess the likelihood of something happening, giving it a score of 1 to 4 (1 = highly unlikely, 4 = very likely) and similarly to assess the damage that would be done if the event occurred (1 = minor injury, 4 = dead). Multiply the answers to get your risk and consider if something should be done or behaviour altered.
As far as Covid is concerned, I live in a windy area, by the sea, where I would need to meet around 1,000 people to find someone infectious. I would struggle, most days, to meet 10 and almost none of them would be close contact. Likelihood score = 1. I'm female, white, in good metabolic health and in my 60's, so feel that I am unlikely to be in the "Dead" or probably even the "nearly dead" category, so, having multiplied the answers, I feel that I have nothing to get too concerned about.
We should each make our own assessments, depending on health and where and how we live. Nobody has to play golf, walk on the sea front, chat to the neighbours, but those who feel that fresh air and social contact are important to them, should be encouraged and allowed to get on with, after all, these are vital for both physical and mental health.
As a society, we are not doing it too fast, it should be up to the individual.
Sally
 
In my opinion not soon enough. I’m tired of the whole thing. If government put as much effort into asking why people are being killed by their own immune system we could save countless millions of lives worldwide every single year forever.
 

Exactly. We are all responsible for ourselves. Anyone who feels at risk can stay home. Corona-shaming is a new sport. If I want to go outside I will. Meanwhile those who don’t won’t. And life goes on.
 
ringi said:
Consider how many London bus drivers there are, how old many of them are, and what their BMI is, along with being a bus driver increasing the risk of someone having DM2.
Click to expand...

Far too many assumptions there. I'm not even sure if the data is available and you know what they say about assumptions.

ringi said:
Also consider how much the infection risk has now reduced, the risk of someone coming into contact with an infected person is now much lower then the weeks before the lockdown.
Click to expand...

I can see that overall the r number is coming down although going up in places. How can we tell though, the track and trace turned out to be a complete shambles and even the Office of National Statistics seems to have new infection numbers much higher that confirmed new infections. Too many unknowns.
 
In my humble opinion it’s up to the individual if they want to stay in that’s up to them are we lifting restrictions too soon? Well I guess tha,t depends how serious it is in the first place .
There are a lot of facts and figures out there how realistic they are or true if you like only time will tell. I know testing has been a shambles apparently but here again how accurate is the testing , my cousins man was tested ( police force) and tested positive , had a further test 2 days later negative . My next door neighbour 84 chronic COPD in fact he almost died 18 months ago with a bad bout of pneumonia. Tested positive but is now out of hospital . Also number of unrelated COVID deaths put down to COVID why is this? Paper trail maybe for future lockdowns .? Who can say .
I do think the press have been a tad on sided in their reporting, not a lot of reporting of people walking out of hospital only 200 deaths today , 300 deaths today etc etc , let’s face it if they reported the number of deaths in a normal year in Britain alone it would be 1650 deaths today 1650 deaths today 1650 deaths today for 365 days with not let up, so a little bit of perspective has to be given , I’m not a conspiracy theorist in any shape or form but this does smell of control , they do say the best way to get someone to do something is to make them think they’ve done it themselves for a reason ,
As I said in the start of this post it’s only my humble opinion and I’m. Not here to argue with anyone .
Please stay safe and take care
 

Mass surveillance is the end game now. Scare everyone into thinking it's for their own good.
 
Jim Lahey said:
In my opinion not soon enough. I’m tired of the whole thing. If government put as much effort into asking why people are being killed by their own immune system we could save countless millions of lives worldwide every single year forever.
Click to expand...
I agree with you
The lockdown is stopping pretty much all other NHS checks and impacting our mental health and destroying the economy. I totally understand we are at a higher risk but the longer term impact I feel will kill more than the cure
 
Iv never stopped working right through 'Self Isolation'
March to now must have been the busiest Iv ever been as a bathroom fitter and Iv still got months worth of work booked in. It has been crazy but not been at the footy 3-4 times a week Iv saved loads aswell

'Self Isolation' has definitely been lifted too early. You look at the figures and we have one of the highest death rates. Our government have dealt with it so badly. We needed a full lockdown like other countries but we failed to do that as the government wanted money to still be ticking over in certain sectors.

People like my mate have had it and he didn't even have one symptom but only got tested as his work shut down with others getting it and the factory having to shut for 2 weeks cleaning and staff testing.
 


Graham, my OH is a very keen golfer. He is 73, although very fit, healthy, good BMI and last A1c in the low-mid 20s. He has been playing golf 3 times a week since allowed. Aside from the fact we've been doing a big, heavy gardening project, he'd play more, as he'd usually play or go to the gym a minimum of 5 days a week.

Anyway, anyway.

At his club, all the usual things are in place, like clubhouse closed, no changing facilities. They must arrive no more than 10 minutes before their tee time and should leave immediately afterwards. Bunkers are in play, but no raking after use. They also have a full-time starter who announces every group, but whilst they are waiting, the starter has a bit of a script, reminding players of their responsibilities.

At the end of the 18th, the gents tip their hats to their playing partners.

In reality, golf is an ideal socially distant sport. Aside from on tee and around the greens, most players will be more than 6ft apart for the vast majority of their rounds.

I guess the whole thing comes down the personal risk/benefit equation. I know my OH feels so much better in himself since back golfing again. Beforehand, he was doing good, long walks, guided by the Ordinance Survey Maps, but for him, nothing beats a bit of competition .

I hope you will become more comfortable over time.
 
Making personal decisions is all well and good to a point.

But if too many people make reckless or fatalistic decisions and raise the incidence and R rates then it effects everyone, including those more vulnerable and risk averse. It prolongs the time that health and economy are adversely effected making the whole thing worse and last longer. Having people invade personal space in public both increases risk and anxiety. Just because you don’t worry doesn’t mean everyone else feels the same. Mental health is a major consideration in the lifting of lockdown as well as it’s continuation.

Bit of a selfish “I’m all right jack“ attitude when it impacts others. A little bit of consideration goes a long way.

Kind of like smoking. When your actions effect others then you need to be more considerate. If they don’t then fill your boots.
 

I absolutely agree, to me it's not just about MY personal risk in an 'I'm alright Jack' way. My job involves hands on contact with the public at large and the problem with one 'I'm perfectly healthy, I won't catch it' brigade is that the sight or actions of that person out and about completely ignoring social distancing brings out everyone else, whether high risk or not. Having said that, I do believe that we can't all stay locked down forever and that people do need to get back to work but some of us (those WITH impacting health conditions) still might wish to exercise caution. Each to their own but whatever happened to protecting the NHS not to mention other keyworkers.
 
DCUKMod said:
They also have a full-time starter who announces every group, but whilst they are waiting, the starter has a bit of a script, reminding players of their responsibilities.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately our starter guy was one of the biggest offenders. He's well into his 80s so probably more at risk if he goes down with this thing.

I am interested that some, like my wife, are quite happy in considering degrees of risk and this is possibly where I have a problem, I don't want any risk.

I'm not totally happy that HID is playing tennis and golf when there is some risk. I've been telling people she'll be the death of me for years LOLOLOL Let's hope not. If I fall ill, I'll send you her eMail address.
 
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