Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

[bulkbiker]

I don't want any risk.

Completely impossible though?

Even boiling an egg comes with risk attached.. burning yourself or the house down..

 

[DCUKMod]

Unfortunately our starter guy was one of the biggest offenders. He's well into his 80s so probably more at risk if he goes down with this thing.

I am interested that some, like my wife, are quite happy in considering degrees of risk and this is possibly where I have a problem, I don't want any risk.

I'm not totally happy that HID is playing tennis and golf when there is some risk. I've been telling people she'll be the death of me for years LOLOLOL Let's hope not. If I fall ill, I'll send you her eMail address.

The thing is in life, rejecting risk is a risk in itself.

There is risk in making a cup of tea. There is risk in not going out - Vit D deficiencies, lack of routine medical screenings, meaning, in some people asymptomatic, significant issues will go unnoticed until they become symptomatic.

I'm a fan of Professor Karol Sikora, who is an Oncologist. He has been Tweeting for ages about the unseen epidemics we have brewing in the background.

I/we don't do daft things. My OH is currently on the phone to his daughter, whom we haven't seen since mid-December (because we went overseas on 3rd January, until a few days pre-lockdown), and it could be a few weeks yet. She also has very little immune system, due to aggressive cancer surgery, and is back working full-time in the NHS. Her specialism is anaesthetics and resus. Oh boy, they was a bit of a mind warp when she went back after carpal tunnel surgery, a few weeks ago.

We haven't seen his grandchildren for the same period, and he's finding that all very difficult, but it's where we are.

My posting style may portray me as one of those who consider this no worse than the flu, but I'm not. I am one of those people who are quite simply unwilling to put a margin of my remaining life on hold, just in case.

I wish you well in the coming times. We all face our own individual challenges navigating through this.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Even boiling an egg comes with risk attached.. burning yourself or the house down..

As does coming on a forum and stating the blindingly obvious, but if you do not come into contact with the virus at all there is no risk of being infected by it, this would be very difficult but not impossible.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I am 72, hubby is 74. We were very glad to be able to drive for day trips to places we have always loved, avoiding busy spots, making sure the area would be quiet and social distancing possible. We have been taking such trips once a week since allowed, and up to now have not had any problems. We take a picnic, sanitisers and wipes. On each of our trips we have felt as though we were on holiday. Our spirits were lifted. We felt normal. We felt safe and did not encounter idiots invading our personal space. The dog (always on her lead) enjoyed it too. That particular restriction could not be lifted soon enough for us.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Even boiling an egg comes with risk attached.. burning yourself or the house down..

Induction cooker, no flames, no risk, apart from boiling for too long. LOL

 

[bulkbiker]

Induction cooker, no flames, no risk, apart from boiling for too long. LOL

Pan still gets hot?

 

[JRT]

I think its important to remember those that may be high risk but dont have a choice as have to go to work,maybe in high risk and low paid jobs,often via public transport

 

[NicoleC1971]

Whatever 'normal' is. My wife has been playing tennis and golf since they could and I thought I'd try and get back into playing some golf as well.

I might be over cautious, so what, there's nothing wrong in that, it's better than throwing caution to the wind. What I saw this morning was a lot of people, not wearing masks and apart from not being able to use the club house for refreshments and having to 'checkin' through a window, rather than queue up in the pro shop, it was like nothing was wrong. There was certainly no social distancing and I was wondering "has this virus lost it's strength or aren't people breathing out like they used to".

There doesn't seem to be a common approach, I notice that even our local bus drivers are working without any protection and they must face many members of the public, without having a clue about their general health. As long ago as May 13th they were saying 33 London bus drivers have died. What that figure must be like nationwide, who knows. I understand the need to 'get the economy going' but shouldn't there be greater use of masks.

Whinge over. Stay safe everyone, take care.

Not soon enough in my opinion ie. my children have been uneducted since mid March (Google School does not cut it), I am furloughed and since my employer is dependent on hospitality revenues, uncertain of going back to my job in July. I am in favour of the vulnerable being helped to shield but why should healthy people be quarantined or become less healthy (mental illness, cancer, heart disease) to achieve this?
Regardless of whether you believe about the risks, I think it should be up to us as individuals to decide whether we should go back to normal or the new Ab normal, without being restricted ( if the resticutions of are not necessary of proportionate) by our government or the engineering of mass hysteria and the sort of social shaming that has been going on on across the mainstream media.

 

[ringi]

I can see that overall the r number is coming down although going up in places.

The R value tells you nothing about personal risk, as it tells you nothing about how many people are infected. All R tells us is how the number of infected people are changing. With a low level of infections, it is not possible to calculate meaningful R, as discovery a new cluster increased the calculated R while also reducing the number of new infections.

Working R out from ramdom testing is getting harder, as not enough of the ramdomly chosen people are tesing possitive, this is the sort of problem I .

 

[ringi]

Her specialism is anaesthetics and resus. Oh boy, they was a bit of a mind warp when she went back after carpal tunnel surgery

For some reason ICU consultants and anaesthetics have had some of the lowest infection rates of NHS staff.

 

[Tannith]

Are we returning to normal too quickly?
For health reasons - yes.
For economic reasons - no.

We can't have the kids off school for more than a term - especially the older ones whose parents may not be able to teach specialist subjects. And we can't shut down the economy for much longer either. Perhaps the most important thing before lifting lockdown would be to look for ways employees could be protected at work, eg perspex or hardboard screens,back to back office seating etc, and an improvement of protection on public transport eg staggering start times, extra buses/trains. And face coverings compulsory everywhere except in special cases eg sick. The virus is still here and only lockdown is reducing its impact temporarily.If we have as many "seed" cases as we had in early March then, without lockdown or any other measures we shall get another surge as big as the one in April. We are nowhere near herd immunity yet.

 

[JohnEGreen]

my children have been uneducted since mid March

Due to health reasons my grandson missed out on most of his secondary school education we home schooled him he is now about to start his third year of an economics degree and is on track for a first so I would't worry too much.

 

[HSSS]

my children have been uneducted since mid March

As has my yr 10 gcse approaching child with nothing more than YouTube links and worksheets, no live or even prerecorded classes. Face to face is 7 X 2 hrs sessions in total covering all 11 subjects (?) which will be filled with discussion on covid and past worksheets!. Another missed A levels and has no idea what to expect from assessed grading or uni in the autumn. So my family is not unaffected.

As far as exams next year go they are only assessed against each other (a certain % achieve each grade each year) not against previous years so grade boundaries will naturally be adjusted accordingly. It’ll simply be a little easier in terms of raw marks to get a 7 for example than in previous years due to lack of curriculum time. It would be helpful to know if any other changes will happen though. For younger children there is time to catch up. Much of any school curriculum is about meeting artificial targets not real education. Much of it is never referred to again post exam. The skills are more important than the facts often and this can still take place. Maybe this will instigate a more real life approach to learning. We can hope. Perhaps the necessary investment in smaller class sizes and more teaches will have some lasting benefits to offset the difficulties this has caused.

It is important that they socialise and learn but they live in families and are taught by teachers and as the largest mass gathering in our society it is essential that health not wealth is the priority and distance and class sizes are not compromised for the wrong reasons. If a work place wouldn’t be allowed to behave/distance in particular ways then neither should schools.

 

[Tannith]

Due to health reasons my grandson missed out on most of his secondary school education we home schooled him he is now about to start his third year of an economics degree and is on track for a first so I would't worry too much.

I home schooled my children until the eldest was 9 and a half, but eventually sent them to school to prepare them for secondary education. I did not think I could possibly do that effectively, especially the science subjects.

 

[JohnEGreen]

We had no real alternative he had physical disability at that time we had no help from Wigan council or the local educational authority or the school he had been enrolled and social services in in fact we received nothing but harassment and abuse three judicial reviews that found in our favor forced them all to change their attitudes with respect to children with physical disabilities Wigan council had to upturn their rules regarding home tutoring and violating his and other children's human rights and they completely rewrote their rule book and web site regarding such matters.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Not soon enough in my opinion ie. my children have been uneducted since mid March (Google School does not cut it),

The school thing seems to be different depending on where you live. The 2 kids next door, 10 and 14, seem to be kept busy by their teachers almost as if they were geared up for teaching from home.

Although we should decide what risks WE take, it isn't all about us. The unfortunate thing about schools is that you are demanding that teachers return, shouldn't they also have a choice? I'm still unhappy that people are not wearing masks. I have absolutely no faith in the government because they are not taking scientific advise, it's almost 'suck it and see'.

The consequences of catching this virus although to a large extent well known, there just isn't a guarantee. That's really the only thing I have a problem with.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[Tannith]

The school thing seems to be different depending on where you live. The 2 kids next door, 10 and 14, seem to be kept busy by their teachers almost as if they were geared up for teaching from home.

Although we should decide what risks WE take, it isn't all about us. The unfortunate thing about schools is that you are demanding that teachers return, shouldn't they also have a choice? I'm still unhappy that people are not wearing masks. I have absolutely no faith in the government because they are not taking scientific advise, it's almost 'suck it and see'.

The consequences of catching this virus although to a large extent well known, there just isn't a guarantee. That's really the only thing I have a problem with.

Stay safe everyone.

Teachers like all other employees should absolutely have a choice. There is some kind of law which permits all employees to walk out if they are not kept safe. This must apply to teachers also. Councils would just have to employ extra teachers who didn't mind working (perhaps have had covid or are young and not very vulnerable), until the others felt safe to return. I agree that all should be wearing masks and that the Govt policies are a shambles based on suck it and see. Like you I have no confidence at all in them and think that individuals are best placed to decide what they should do in their personal situation. It would be nice if more of our personal decisions could be supported by Govt (eg shielding) but if they won't help us we shall just have to find other ways of getting by.

 

[Tannith]

We had no real alternative he had physical disability at that time we had no help from Wigan council or the local educational authority or the school he had been enrolled and social services in in fact we received nothing but harassment and abuse three judicial reviews that found in our favor forced them all to change their attitudes with respect to children with physical disabilities Wigan council had to upturn their rules regarding home tutoring and violating his and other children's human rights and they completely rewrote their rule book and web site regarding such matters.

The local authority led us a dance too. It is annoying that they won't let you concentrate on giving the best education you can by constantly sending education inspectors and the like. Obviously they have to keep some sort of check on whether the kids are learning but in some areas it can be OTT.

 

[Max68]

I've been golfing but as others have said it is quite different to "normal". Obviously we drive separately rather than share lifts, pay online and no use of club house or changing rooms. We don't tend to stay as far apart as we did first round back but that day we were probably about 50 feet apart!! No rakes in bunkers, no ball washers and various contraptions in the hole so you just lift your ball out easily! When we finish we use the Mr Spock Vulcan salute rather than a hand shake!! The one thing I won't do which I did before is eat a sandwich on the course!!

On the other hand I am still working from home, which was a good decision as within a week or so from the school opening again with more students and staff a teacher tested positive for Covid so the school is back on the virtual timetable and only taking the basic children of key workers and vulnerable.

I've a big decision come September as I am sure they will probably open properly then! I certainly won't however visit pubs, cinemas, theatres etc until the day where hopefully a vaccine or treatment makes it all easier to cope with. Might be in for a long wait!

I think in many ways it's all opening too quickly but at the same time I understand it's all about the economy! What I find bizarre though is queues for Primark or other unessential shops, I mean where at the moment would you wear a new dress?!

 

[Fairygodmother]

I can understand the government’s fear that the economy will sink even further if we don’t begin generating some kind of revenue, and the debt figures are so large that we seem to be in danger of being unable to recover without a lot of very cunning juggling. My own confidence that this will happen is, like the economy, in the negative figures.
But, and it’s a big but, I also think that we risk setting ourselves back even more if we get another burst of Covid cases.
The numbers, if you can begin to trust them at all, are, we’re told, higher than at the beginning of the lockdown. Meanwhile, with restrictions lifting, there’s surely more opportunity for transmission, so we may see the cases rising again.
My understanding of the reason for the lockdown in March is that it was to protect the NHS, especially in London. Staff at hard hit Covid units must surely be exhausted; clapping on Thursday evenings is a wonderful gesture of gratitude but it’s not enough to lighten the medics’ load. We went too late into lockdown, and the deaths have been tragic in the original meaning of the word: a disaster caused by fatal human weakness in a person/people holding power.
How we can save both the economy and lives is a conundrum. I’ve looked at some of the physics of breathing and droplets and fear that even reducing social distancing to 1.5 metres is a risk too far.
Maybe I’m being a bit of a Cassandra, I really hope I am. I hope that the optimists are right, but ...