Are We Seeing the Beginning of the End?

[Listlad]

Hi,

I can get down with that. The linear graphs showing effects & catching any "blind spots." Regardless of type, diet or meds.
Then help make that tweak. As opposed to the advice given by meter prescribing GPs, (if lucky not dissuaded by no need.) "test once a day."

There are people around now that have T2 or are in remission or otherwise that use a Libre to evaluate a wide range of foods on their blood sugar without using a standard test meter.

Dr Simon Tobin conducted a number of tests only recently for example.

 

[Diakat]

You know, ironically I was paraphrasing Dr David Unwin in that sentence.

@Diakat

Thanks

@Listlad

 

[Listlad]

Thanks

@Listlad

Also, hopefully more and more will gain access to the Libre type device, one way or another.

 

[Oldvatr]

From my understanding, to have access to libre results, the gp surgery in theory would have a code that patients type in on libreview to link their app/reader results to their computer. From the GP’s computer, all they do is click your name and it shows your results. Oh imagine that, imagine proving GPs wrong, oh that would definitely throw out their degrees and phds out of the window. But I would be interested to hear from other fellow type 2s if they have been able to present a case with their libre results to say LCHF/ keto works for most people.

I persuaded my GP with a simple food log and some graphs from my spreadsheet. The trend lines showing it (LCHF) working over a couple of weeks and using it to adjust my dosaege was all that was needed. He has supported my habit for over 4 yrars now i# think most GP's would find it hard to justify a Libre at £50 a month difficult to support when test stips are a quarter of that cost to them. There would have to be a medical reason, like hypo unawareness or suspected RH variant of the condition. Not all insulin users will get a Libre, and most T2 will have to self fund.

 

[Jaylee]

There are people around now that have T2 or are in remission or otherwise that use a Libre to evaluate a wide range of foods on their blood sugar without using a standard test meter.

Dr Simon Tobin conducted a number of tests only recently for example.

I'm not knocking the idea or sentiment. My T2 dad "back in the day" was prescribed strips. He actually had a fancier meter than me.! Not so much as a sniff of a Libre back then. We had quite a forward thinking family GP. + he guessed at least one family member know how to use a meter & understand the carby side of stuff.
Long story short, my dad had developed vascular demetia. We had through lowering his carb intake by about 60% lower his A1c & get him off metformin
I had no idea what I was doing at the time. I just knew how certain carbs affected me & worked it from there.
Stuff my mum thought was healthy for a T1 didn't quite understand my dad wasn't on insulin.

I seem to remember you like the occaisional glass of milk? How do you find it affects you? Are you finding any fascinating prolonged steady rises or spikes with your Libre readings?

 

[Listlad]

Sure, at current prices the Libre isn’t affordable for many people though I am sure that there are many that can afford to self fund, like everything else. I don’t expect it to stay that way as prices will surely come down, especially if another player in that market arrives on the scene. Again, the same as a lot of new whizzo products.

(I have cut down on my milk intake now in an effort to reduce my blood pressure and weight a little more. Trying to run on 70 grams of carbs per day max as opposed to 130.)

Having said that, I note that Dr David Unwin has said that having a Libre just for a few weeks can be highly beneficial for learning what causes higher blood sugar levels. So in that sense the self funding might only be once over. There is of course evidence on this forum that some T2’s do in fact buy a Libre occasionally and not on a continuous footing.



@Diakat

 

[Listlad]

A benefit of Twitter ( yes there are some ) is that I was able to read the following account from Dr Simon Tobin. He is neither diabetic or Prediabetic but donned a Libre for a couple of weeks and tested himself with differing food products. It does make interesting reading.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1163546496236752896.html

It makes interesting reading. Here is an example:

This guy is not diabetic and yet is getting very useful information from a Libre, which puts to sleep any previous notions that I have read that they are overkill as some have said. For a health conscious non diabetic this is still valuable data.

 

[Jaylee]

Sure, at current prices the Libre isn’t affordable for many people though I am sure that there are many that can afford to self fund, like everything else. I don’t expect it to stay that way as prices will surely come down, especially if another player in that market arrives on the scene. Again, the same as a lot of new whizzo products.

I have cut down on my milk intake now in an effort to reduce my blood pressure and weight a little more. Trying to run on 70 grams of carbs per day max as opposed to 130.

Hi,

Thanks for responding.
Libres. I'm certain the next "IPhone" will come along.. There is a Libre 2. But only available ( by all accounts in Germany.)

I actually started off using the libre as an experiment as a "one off." Thinking back a year ago & got hooked, I noticed the benefits at work, rest & play .I was lucky to be left a little money in a will & invested in a Miaomiaio too.. (Others ar not so futunate.)
The benefits as with others are apparent. My wife is also keen & fully understands the benefits of a CGM set up.
Now, I don't claim to be a "high roller" in my place of work, but it's a game changer. No one can have fault laid at their feet for having any type of diabetes..

You mention BP & weight.. I hear no talk of using a Libre, (once.) let alone a meter. Where are you you at on that...?

A benefit of Twitter ( yes there are some ) is that I was able to read the following account from Dr Simon Tobin. He is neither diabetic or Prediabetic but donned a Libre for a couple of weeks and tested himself with differing food products. It does make interesting reading.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1163546496236752896.html

It makes interesting reading. Here is an example:

View attachment 38419

Fat can delay a spike pending on (from being insulin dependant, timing & how the carbs in Alpen with fats for an. Idevidual.
Dr Simon Tobin is also non D. 5.2, 5.9. Is nominal, random & inconclusive... Considering the lag in a sensor.

 

[Listlad]

Hi,

Thanks for responding.
Libres. I'm certain the next "IPhone" will come along.. There is a Libre 2. But only available ( by all accounts in Germany.)

I actually started off using the libre as an experiment as a "one off." Thinking back a year ago & got hooked, I noticed the benefits at work, rest & play .I was lucky to be left a little money in a will & invested in a Miaomiaio too.. (Others ar not so futunate.)
The benefits as with others are apparent. My wife is also keen & fully understands the benefits of a CGM set up.
Now, I don't claim to be a "high roller" in my place of work, but it's a game changer. No one can have fault laid at their feet for having any type of diabetes..

You mention BP & weight.. I hear no talk of using a Libre, (once.) let alone a meter. Where are you you at on that...?



Fat can delay a spike pending on (from being insulin dependant, timing & how the carbs in Alpen with fats for an. Idevidual.
Dr Simon Tobin is also non D. 5.2, 5.9. Is nominal, random & inconclusive... Considering the lag in a sensor.

Are you saying his results are of no use to man nor beast? I put a lot of faith in the chap. Note that the Alpen example was just one of his tests that he conducted on himself. Do you think he did not account for lag?

( Just having a mild dose of deja vu here with lag and peaks and areas under the curve, from a previous life ).

I love the word “nominal” as it is a point my current employer dwells upon in his engineering world. I even have to dwell on it myself.

 

[Listlad]

Here is another example from a Lily Nichols where as a non diabetic she dons a continuous glucose monitor to learn about the results on her blood glucose levels.

I note she makes a point about missing the peak (spike) when using a finger stick type check. Something I was curious about quite a number of months back. Highlighting a weakness in the method.

Her account of her findings also makes interesting reading. Entitled “What I Learned as a Non Diabetic from Wearing a Continuous Glucose Monitor”.

https://lilynicholsrdn.com/cgm-experiment-non-diabetic-continuous-glucose-monitor/

 

[Brunneria]

A benefit of Twitter ( yes there are some ) is that I was able to read the following account from Dr Simon Tobin. He is neither diabetic or Prediabetic but donned a Libre for a couple of weeks and tested himself with differing food products. It does make interesting reading.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1163546496236752896.html

It makes interesting reading. Here is an example:

View attachment 38419

This guy is not diabetic and yet is getting very useful information from a Libre, which puts to sleep any previous notions that I have read that they are overkill as some have said. For a health conscious non diabetic this is still valuable data.

while those graphs may show a correlation between different milk choices at breakfast, both results are within the accuracy tolerances of all meters currently accepted on the UK market. In addition, simple everyday events such as a stressful phonecall, climbing upstairs an extra time or two, or realising that the bus will be late, can all affect a reading - giving daily fluctuations that do not depend on food.

So while I am fully in favour of every T2 diabetic monitoring their blood glucose (if they want, if funds allow, and if they understand the limitations and how to get the most out of the experience), I’m afraid that I cannot agree that a few graphs show that continuous monitoring is a good idea for the general population, even if the individual concerned is a health conscious non- diabetic.

 

[Jaylee]

@Listlad ,

To draw an analogy. For 11 years I once owned a 2.5l turbo diesel van. These particular vehicles if not maintained properly are prone to overheating due to the extensive pipe work on the coolant system return & flowing to a mid seated engine, along with serving 2 heater matrixes front & back.

Now, I and a few others on a Jap import forum fitted a mutitude of temp gauges, coolant loss alarms & wot not to our vehicles.
Then we exchanged data..
The issue is. Though I was glad to have these sensors fitted thus spotting any potential early catastrophe that could cost a £1,600 repair bill.

All the vans used on this venture though having the same base spec. Were different. For starters the sevice history was different. Some had camper conversions lugging different loads. Different tyres & wheel spec mine was 4x4 others were rear w drive.
Some experinced a lag in temprature rise after a hill clime, which might have been attributed to a slower responding stat?
I've bombed it up from my Wiltshire residence to the M4 & done trips in Swtzerland & north Italy in this beast.
Lol, not every hill climb is the same for these indevidual vans either..

The motor gave me many years of trouble free driving.

As an insulin user. I take a similar aproach with my Libre readings.. Act accordingly to avoid potential trouble later on.

I'm interested to know how you use yours..?

 

[DCUKMod]

Listlad, whilst I have read quite a bit of Simon Tobin, and he seems like a top chap, and a real advocate for healthy living, however just because he has x reaction to y situation doesn't mean I, or anyone else, would do the same for a multitude of reasons.

In some ways I admire your faith and trust that your body's will respond the same as a younger (I think), seemingly metabolically unchallenged individual who runs for fun.

 

[Listlad]

while those graphs may show a correlation between different milk choices at breakfast, both results are within the accuracy tolerances of all meters currently accepted on the UK market. In addition, simple everyday events such as a stressful phonecall, climbing upstairs an extra time or two, or realising that the bus will be late, can all affect a reading - giving daily fluctuations that do not depend on food.

So while I am fully in favour of every T2 diabetic monitoring their blood glucose (if they want, if funds allow, and if they understand the limitations and how to get the most out of the experience), I’m afraid that I cannot agree that a few graphs show that continuous monitoring is a good idea for the general population, even if the individual concerned is a health conscious non- diabetic.

Well we have to differ on that. I don’t agree with your assertion.

 

[Listlad]

Listlad, whilst I have read quite a bit of Simon Tobin, and he seems like a top chap, and a real advocate for healthy living, however just because he has x reaction to y situation doesn't mean I, or anyone else, would do the same for a multitude of reasons.

In some ways I admire your faith and trust that your body's will respond the same as a younger (I think), seemingly metabolically unchallenged individual who runs for fun.

Quite. I don’t disagree with your first paragraph.

My faith is in the results gained by a very large pool of people. Not just one individual. And what is more it works for me. So don’t knock it. I think you might need to be reminded that we each have our own ways of dealing with T2 diabetes and due respect should be given accordingly, at least that is what I see repeated frequently. With due respect, perhaps you might respect my own approach too. Thankyou.

Lastly, whilst I have my doubts about advice handed out by some GP’s, yes I do have a little more faith in this particular GP as I do in my own GP and whilst I have gained a lot from this forum, not every post or poster do I hold in the same esteem as I do in said GPs.

 

[Listlad]

@Listlad ,

To draw an analogy. For 11 years I once owned a 2.5l turbo diesel van. These particular vehicles if not maintained properly are prone to overheating due to the extensive pipe work on the coolant system return & flowing to a mid seated engine, along with serving 2 heater matrixes front & back.

Now, I and a few others on a Jap import forum fitted a mutitude of temp gauges, coolant loss alarms & wot not to our vehicles.
Then we exchanged data..
The issue is. Though I was glad to have these sensors fitted thus spotting any potential early catastrophe that could cost a £1,600 repair bill.

All the vans used on this venture though having the same base spec. Were different. For starters the sevice history was different. Some had camper conversions lugging different loads. Different tyres & wheel spec mine was 4x4 others were rear w drive.
Some experinced a lag in temprature rise after a hill clime, which might have been attributed to a slower responding stat?
I've bombed it up from my Wiltshire residence to the M4 & done trips in Swtzerland & north Italy in this beast.
Lol, not every hill climb is the same for these indevidual vans either..

The motor gave me many years of trouble free driving.

As an insulin user. I take a similar aproach with my Libre readings.. Act accordingly to avoid potential trouble later on.

I'm interested to know how you use yours..?

I think you are drifting off thread a little. Perhaps you might like to start a thread on the topic.

Yes we are all different. That is not news. But there is commonality between us. That isn’t news either.
I have been monitoring time based graphs, responses to the introduction of substance into analytical equipment, in naturally occurring substances, since 1980. I am quite aware of what you have said and posted earlier. Peaks, trends, plots, data is not news to me.
Anyhow, we digress.

 

[Jaylee]

I think you are drifting off thread a little. Perhaps you might like to start a thread on the topic.

Yes we are all different. That is not news. But there is commonality between us. That isn’t news either.
I have been monitoring time based graphs, responses to the introduction of substance into analytical equipment, in naturally occurring substances, since 1980. I am quite aware of what you have said and posted earlier. Peaks, trends, plots, data is not news to me.
Anyhow, we digress.

Not at all..

I'm just curious to know what you get out of your Libre (or meter use.) use.. I gave an outline of how I use mine. So have others.

 

[Listlad]

Not at all..

I'm just curious to know what you get out of your Libre (or meter use.) use.. I gave an outline of how I use mine. So have others.

I know you know the answer to that. But if by chance you really do not know then why not start a new thread.

Edit. Btw do remember you are T1. This thread is about T2’s as you may or may not have realised.

 

[Jaylee]

I know you know the answer to that. But if by chance you really do not know then why not start a new thread.

Agreed I could.?
But alas. Your comentry highlighting non-D responses may not bare relevance to the topic...

 

[Listlad]

Agreed I could.?
But alas. Your comentry highlighting non-D responses may not bare relevance to the topic...

I think it does.