Are we talking diets or religion? ( or maybe its all about fear?)

badcat said:

I dont believe there is such a thing as a perfect diet that will suit everyone and / stop D in its tracks for ever. Over the 20+ years Ive been diagnosed diabetic different combinations have been appropriate at different times and I have had to adjust as I and D get older.

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I can certainly relate to what you're saying @badcat. I'm constantly tweaking what I eat and don't eat and the big factor in all of this is age and metabolic rate and most people's metabolisms slow down as they age and for people with any type of diabetes they will need to make adjustments to maintain their level of control.
Diets tend to fall under the fad/trend category. I can remember when the LCHF first hit the scene about 20 years ago although at that time it was called something else. A bunch of my middle age friends who were packing a few extra pounds went on it and lost weight - unfortunately it didn't last long as they reverted back. This tends to be common regardless of diet type.
I'm more a supporter of eat what makes you feel alert, strong and focused coupled by as much physical activity as you can incorporate in your day to day. I do a 5 KM power walk every day and climb over 500 steps as part of my regular routine for my work days - weekends consist of even more activity. Without that activity, I'm convinced that I would not be doing as well as I am. Most people my age (55) look old tired and saggy because their biggest level of acitivty consists of getting up to walk to the fridge to get something to eat during the commercial breaks of their favorite shows LOL ....
Sure high carb diets mess around with BG levels and weight but so does inactivity and we're a very sedentary society. IMO, there really needs more attention placed on activity, that's been the one constant over the years with me as a Type 1 - my level of control tends to correlate with my level of activity.

badcat said:

I fail to understand why so many threads appear to meander off into " my diets right, yours is wrong" territory - Ive read at least 4 today where thats happened - none of which started out discussing diet but all of which ended up there.
Maybe Im just really long in the tooth, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a perfect diet that will suit everyone and / or stop D in its tracks for ever. Over the 20+ years Ive been diagnosed diabetic, different dietary combinations have been appropriate at different times and I have had to adjust my diet several times as I and D get older. Some will no doubt say I would / should have got better results if I´d followed their path. Personally Im more than happy to be on the same meds, at the same dose, with hba1c in the 40's after 20 years

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well I used to be a skeptical person towards the low carb high fat diet... but must say that I think it is the fastest way to normal blood glucose, and that most type 2 will be able to have totally normal levels forever if they go really low enough in their levels of carbs in a daily basis. I myself have a hard time doing just that because I do love so many types of carbs, and that is the only reason I believe to why my levels are not where I really would like them to be ...
the high-fat part is not yet part of my "religion" ... I don't like to eat huge amounts of fat .. and the more fat I have been eating the harder I have had to keep my weight low... maybe if I combined the high fat with very low carbs like under 50 grams a day I would still be able to lose weight ... I don´t know haven't been in that range yet.. but this is what I´ll have to try if all other approaches fail...
I am also taking metformin... and this lets me eat more carbs I´m sure that if I was total without medication... and because I do not yet have the character to go very low carb .. I cling on to my metformin.. but think Metformin is not only a wonder medication.. it also has a backside among which is the danger of ending up not being able to uptake the essential Vitamin B12 and that can also lead to Neuropathy, also severe Neuropathy that is not always reversible..
my eczema that occurred when I went low calories and lower carbs, by the way, has disappeared this summer when having again been eating much more carbs.. unfortunately, my blood glucose is also affected by that but in the bad direction.

I agree! I am genuinely happy when people have found something that works well for them and I can understand the urge to "convert the unbelievers". But as everyone has experienced: my diabetes is different to yours, and: mileage may vary. There is already enough guilt associated with this disease, and yelling at someone that they are going to go blind because they admitted to eating a slice of toast is not helpful (or necessarily true). I respect and believe those who say that their diet works for them, I would ask for the same respect back.

What I don't like to see are Type 1s advising unmedicated T2s or just Metformin users what they could eat unless they really know a lot about T2. That happens a lot, too.

When I was more active and greeted the newbies especially T2s.
My recommendation to them was to reduce carbs and sugars, reduce plate size and increase exercise if possible.
I advocated a lower carb and higher fat lifestyle for them. Indeed I would ask them to find out why low carb lifestyle works by introducing them to the different forums.

Of course diversity in diabetes is how the individual can cope with intolerance to certain foods.

However, for someone with my condition, the lower the carb the better. But we have to find that balance that you need to achieve to get your blood glucose levels to as near normal as possible.

We need to educate not dictate!

On tuesday I was told not to listen to so called on-line forum so called experts.

I don't say I'm an expert but I do have 40+yrs experience of mostly uncontrolled diabetes. From childhood to middle age and nhs advice and going rogue. I keep getting told from nhs that lchf diet is a fad diet.
The weight losers on lchf will disagree it being no use. Although its not pushed as a weight loss programme and just an aid to help with unruly bgs.
Any aid is just an aid but nothing works for everyone!

LCHF plus caloric restriction is not a religion to me religion demands faith without proof. And I have proved that it works for me. I would not say it would work for every one nor would I recommend my particular diet to any one either

Each to their own I say whatever floats your boat.

As exercise is not an option for me I had to go down the route I chose.

I have personally only encountered help and support on this forum no one has tried to bully me into any particular diet just advised and made recommendations..

I do see the threads go off onto diet debates and it does descend on rare occasions to sacred cows almost.

But if you have made good progress then you want to share and that passion perhaps leads to emotion which leads to virtual arguments. All I would say - is you can scroll through the posts which are off topic and for many new they may stumble across something in a thread which if it helps them would be a good thing.

I read a really interesting, quite long thread yesterday posted by a lass advocating a WFPB lifestyle. Although I am new to diabetes the one reason I couldn't agree with the lass was that the evidence based sources were unforthcoming. There were a number of members in the conversation and some of the more experienced and well informed people were politely asking for more information. Only one or two members resorted to ad hominem comments, which was sad but I know they were frustrated with the information, or the lack of it that the poster was giving. But I enjoyed reading the debate and will look for more of the same because some people come at a problem from a different angle and open up possibilities that may have been lurking in the shadows, possibilities that may just help someone on their journey.
Was it Einstein who said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result? I say, if it ain't broken don't fix it.

I just love engaging with fellow diabetic soldiers. Even I have a bad day where I'm tempremental about my very long journey so far and how still far I need to go!

When I was first diagnosed several years ago, I followed the recommended guidelines at the time. I lost weight and my numbers hovered around normal to pre-diabetes and they stayed that way for a few years. Adding in walking and then a few years later, weightlifting, my levels still remained in "the range." When I turned 49, things changed. My numbers started moving upwards. My Dr started mentioning meds if I wanted to go that route but I always told him I'll improve by diet, which I did.
Within the last year though, things have changed. Now at almost 53 I am more stressed than ever, (2 teenage daughters), I haven't really focused on my diet as much as I had in the past and my numbers reflected it. I have now gone to lchf but I will still have a baked potato, rice or bread (rye) every so often and I can still keep my numbers in check. At my last Dr visit after blood work I told my Dr to change my visits to before holidays. The week between Christmas and New Years always involves food. My visits now fall just before Halloween and again in early spring. I still will indulge but not as much as before. My Dr has no issue with my numbers but I want to keep them a little lower.
Fasting and lchf has helped me achieve that but at the same time, I'm not quite fanatical about my diet. If my numbers start to trend upward too much, a 7 day fast and less starchy food helps me reset. According to the BMI chart, I'm obese. According to the guys in the gym, I'm adding muscle.

ickihun said:

lchf diet is a fad diet.

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Although nearly 200 years old. At the end of the day it's all done to what works for "YOU".

Most people who are diagnosed are left confused and afraid of long term complications. The advice given by GPs can be a bit sketchy. My GP said cut out sugar and do more exercise and take Metformin. Unfortunately, this advice alone would still leave most type 2 patients with high blood sugars. I followed the advice for 5 weeks before I saw the diabetes nurse and my fasting blood glucose dropped from 13 down to 9.8. She gave me a glucose meter and shortly afterwards I saw a video by Sarah Hallberg on reversing type 2 diabetes. This was a bit of a revelation as it clearly explained how different food types (carbs, protein, fat) work in the body and how they raise blood glucose. At that point I started to reduce my carbohydrates in addition to sugar and after a few weeks my blood glucose had dropped to around 6.2.

The fact that you can dramatically reduce your blood glucose by diet needs to be known by all people recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Just taking the pills is nowhere near as effective and can lead to long term complications such as blindness, neuropathy and alzheimers. The second revelation I had with regard treating type 2 diabetes was when I saw a video by Jason Fung on fasting. Fasting does appear to be remarkably beneficial in treating diabetes and in some cases can trigger remission.

Many years of bad diet and lack of exercise means that 80% of people with type 2 diabetes are overweight or obese. People are hooked on eating high carb junk food and the idea that just taking a pill will solve all our problems is very appealing. Unfortunately, it is just an illusion. You need a complete lifestyle and diet change to get your health back on track. If people are being evangelical about the message of low carb then it is because this message needs to be heard. People can ignore it if they choose.

When I try to articulate myself on this or any other forum I sometimes find it hard.
I worry that I'm being too harsh/smug/insensitive or silly etc......
People post things that's not meant to be any of these but it does happen.

Love you

Tony
LOL

DavidGrahamJones said:

Although nearly 200 years old. At the end of the day it's all done to what works for "YOU".

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Yesterday there was a BBC report that a hospital in Bristol is using LCHF diet to successfully treat epilepsy in children. So the NHS can change, even if it is 200 years later (Yes they Bant now)

Oldvatr said:

Yesterday there was a BBC report that a hospital in Bristol is using LCHF diet to successfully treat epilepsy in children. So the NHS can change, even if it is 200 years later (Yes they Bant now)

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@Oldvatr
That is great news, hopefully they will convince other hospitals/consultants to follow suit and direct their efforts toward diabetics, too. Small steps.