Are we talking diets or religion? ( or maybe its all about fear?)

[ickihun]

Nothing ventured - nothing gained.

I dont mind try what has been prescribed for type2s. Weight loss if overweight.

I was told the same for pcos then metformin transformed my infertile body into a fertile one.
Weight loss helped but not as much as metformin.
Sometimes the biology just isnt quite right. No matter what you do.

 

[zand]

My word! Some of you on this thread are very condescending! Someone is trying to teach @Avocado Sevenfold how they speak in Scotland. Someone else is belittling a 'lass' because she is trying to help the rest of us who have problems with IR. Some of us like to learn new things whilst they are still new. Real scientific evidence can take 50 years to catch up. I won't be here that long and many of you won't either. I am willing to try something new because the old (LCHF) no longer works for me. I don't care if science now says it should work for me. It did for 5 or so years, but not now. So I need to learn something new. Thank you @AliB for sharing. I'm not there yet but am aiming for 250g carbs 14g fat and 31g protein for starters. Plant based, no animal fats at all.

I'll let you all know how my non-scientific experiment works out. Then those of you with an open mind can read it. Ardent LCHFers needn't bother.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

My word! Some of you on this thread are very condescending! Someone is trying to teach @Avocado Sevenfold how they speak in Scotland. Someone else is belittling a 'lass' because she is trying to help the rest of us who have problems with IR. Some of us like to learn new things whilst they are still new. Real scientific evidence can take 50 years to catch up. I won't be here that long and many of you won't either. I am willing to try something new because the old (LCHF) no longer works for me. I don't care if science now says it should work for me. It did for 5 or so years, but not now. So I need to learn something new. Thank you @AliB for sharing. I'm not there yet but am aiming for 250g carbs 11g fat and 31g protein for starters. Plant based, no animal fats at all.

I'll let you all know how my non-scientific experiment works out. Then those of you with an open mind can read it. Ardent LCHFers needn't bother.

I remember you and @AliB were quite ardent LCHFers yourselves back in the day! But is it not working for you now so you are trying something new. It seems perfectly reasonably to me so I don't understand all the kerfuffle. Eating unprocessed plants shouldn't raise so much suspicion. It's a crime most people have committed. All the best

 

[zand]

I remember you and @AliB were quite ardent LCHFers yourselves back in the day! But is it not working for you now so you are trying something new. It seems perfectly reasonably to me so I don't understand all the kerfuffle. Eating unprocessed plants shouldn't raise so much suspicion. It's a crime most people have committed. All the best

Yes we were and I may be again in the future, but time to change things around a bit now, I can't stay stuck at this weight any longer, it isn't healthy.

 

[Bluetit1802]

My word! Some of you on this thread are very condescending! Someone is trying to teach @Avocado Sevenfold how they speak in Scotland. Someone else is belittling a 'lass' because she is trying to help the rest of us who have problems with IR. Some of us like to learn new things whilst they are still new. Real scientific evidence can take 50 years to catch up. I won't be here that long and many of you won't either. I am willing to try something new because the old (LCHF) no longer works for me. I don't care if science now says it should work for me. It did for 5 or so years, but not now. So I need to learn something new. Thank you @AliB for sharing. I'm not there yet but am aiming for 250g carbs 11g fat and 31g protein for starters. Plant based, no animal fats at all.

I'll let you all know how my non-scientific experiment works out. Then those of you with an open mind can read it. Ardent LCHFers needn't bother.

I wish you luck and really hope it works for you. Anything is worth a try, and I sincerely believe that.

I think though that you are being a bit hard on most of the posters on this thread. They are mostly open minded, and I don't see much evidence of condescension. I'm sure we all hope it works for you.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I wish you luck and really hope it works for you. Anything is worth a try, and I sincerely believe that.

I think though that you are being a bit hard on most of the posters on this thread. They are mostly open minded, and I don't see much evidence of condescension. I'm sure we all hope it works for you.

The very fact that this thread exists at all is perplexing. @AliB posted that she was trying a new approach as she was struggling after many years of LCHF. Instead of being wished luck, she was asked to provide indisputable evidence that eating plants was healthy. The LCHFers here don't get the Spanish Inquisition whenever they post. It's a strange place. But we can agree that we hope it works for Zand at increasing her insulin sensitivity

 

[badcat]

The very fact that this thread exists at all is perplexing. @AliB posted that she was trying a new approach as she was struggling after many years of LCHF. Instead of being wished luck, she was asked to provide indisputable evidence that eating plants was healthy. The LCHFers here don't get the Spanish Inquisition whenever they post. It's a strange place. But we can agree that we hope it works for Zand at increasing her insulin sensitivity

I started the thread and havnt got a clue what you are referring to in terms of the existence of the thread
The thread was started in response to the number of threads I see get hijacked by individuals espousing their own preferred diet rather than responding to the thread posters questions. Reading what I wrote starting the thread and since, I think its very obvious that I do not advocate adherence to any particular dietary approach, other than the one that works for the individual at the moment, and suggest people remain open minded instead of falling in love with their own ideas

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I started the thread and havnt got a clue what you are referring to in terms of the existence of the thread
The thread was started in response to the number of threads I see get hijacked by individuals espousing their own preferred diet rather than responding to the thread posters questions. Reading what I wrote starting the thread and since, I think its very obvious that I do not advocate adherence to any particular dietary approach, other than the one that works for the individual at the moment, and suggest people remain open minded instead of falling in love with their own ideas

I thought your opening post was a bit ambiguous tbh, but that may be my fault at being unable to interpret it. REligion was mentioned but I couldn't see any evidence, though I don't read all the threads. The WFPB thread was mentioned on page one so I thought maybe that was what you were talking about. Sorry if it wasn't. I agree thought that people do hijack threads on this on the forum and push their own way of eating. What works for one may not work for another, doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

[donnellysdogs]

LC diets are also being used for treating some cancers. and this works where the tumour needs to be starved of glucocose

There is a lot of info out for cancer... on lchf. My Prof Onc says no breakfast should be made of cereals or porridge or wheat based etc with bread.. only breakfast he said to have was greek yogurt, nuts and berries...

He is adamant that good gut flora is essential and that eating the cereals after fasting pushes up insulin resistance which in turn is being linked to cancer...he was however not a liver of any processed meats or meats in general preferring to recommend plant based and specifically turmeric, broccoli and pomegranate.

 

[lindisfel]

I started the thread and havnt got a clue what you are referring to in terms of the existence of the thread
The thread was started in response to the number of threads I see get hijacked by individuals espousing their own preferred diet rather than responding to the thread posters questions. Reading what I wrote starting the thread and since, I think its very obvious that I do not advocate adherence to any particular dietary approach, other than the one that works for the individual at the moment, and suggest people remain open minded instead of falling in love with their own ideas

I am not arguing you down badcat but it cannot be a position one can hold if one is in a minority. For example, you could not really have a science prog that gave flat earthers equal status with astronauts! So on here to a much lesser extent one expects the prime movers to hold the ground with an interpretation that apparently works for the majority. We see this played out in the vegan/carnivore debate.
In my case I have not the slightest doubt all refined carbs are my enemy so I never feel threaten by a contrary view. But your observation at the outset is valid. It happens in all areas of life..it is just human nature at a society level. D.

 

[badcat]

I am not arguing you down badcat but it cannot be a position one can hold if one is in a minority. For example, you could not really have a science prog that gave flat earthers equal status with astronauts! So on here to a much lesser extent one expects the prime movers to hold the ground with an interpretation that apparently works for the majority. We see this played out in the vegan/carnivore debate.
In my case I have not the slightest doubt all refined carbs are my enemy so I never feel threaten by a contrary view. But your observation at the outset is valid. It happens in all areas of life..it is just human nature at a society level. D.

So you are saying that the majority would say that the diet that works for the individual is not the one to follow? - I find that a rather strange position to hold. Then again maybe having relatively succesfully managed diabetes for over 20 years by modifying my diet as necessary and remaining on a stable, low dose of medication gives me a rather different perspective to you
My reference to treating diet as a religion and / or responding to fear related to the fact that I think all of us have a tendency to look for certainty when faced with frightening realities, such as diabetes

 

[Oldvatr]

So you are saying that the majority would not say that the diet that works for the individual is the one to follow? - I find that a rather strange position to hold

One of the tenets of this Forum is that we should state what works for me or does not work for me, But occasionally we get posters who start saying things like if you don't do it this way then you will kill yourself, My guru here <<>> says xyz and this is indisputable even though I have no evidence to back this statement up.

I feel under these last points that it is then incumbent on us to use discussion, debate, and presented studies to either prove them right or wrong. Otherwise the forum just becomes a source of recipes and general chitchat about meds. We need to lead by example not by dictat (or as has happened a few times, pure zeal). It is through the sharing of our experiences personally, and by sharing of public published information that the forum will move forward and readers will have the data they need to make informed choices for their own situation.

 

[badcat]

One of the tenets of this Forum is that we should state what works for me or does not work for me, But occasionally we get posters who start saying things like if you don't do it this way then you will kill yourself, My guru here <<>> says xyz and this is indisputable even though I have no evidence to back this statement up.

I feel under these last points that it is then incumbent on us to use discussion, debate, and presented studies to either prove them right or wrong. Otherwise the forum just becomes a source of recipes and general chitchat about meds. We need to lead by example not by dictat (or as has happened a few times, pure zeal). It is through the sharing of our experiences personally, and by sharing of public published information that the forum will move forward and readers will have the data they need to make informed choices for their own situation.

Couldnt agree more. What individuals on the forum can do is provide information to help other individual members looking for dietary strategies decide where to start their journey and the type of self testing info they might need to evaluate different approaches. What forum members should never do is try to tell other individuals what the end point of their journey will / should be

 

[Guzzler]

I have been a memeber of this forum for just a few weeks and I hadn't seen much of the (seemingly) underlying enmity between proponents of different approaches to diet. I must confess that as this thread has progressed it has seemed to become ugly. The OPs question was not ambiguous but the comments have become a little adversarial in the 'Us v Them' type.
So I will discontue watching this thread with an apology to anyone if they feel I may have been 'condescending' or that if people are insulted by the term 'Lass', no offence was intended.

 

[JohnEGreen]

 

[Glenmac]

Thankyou John,from a Lancashire lass living in Scotland where we have lots of lassies and lads.A lovely old English folk song beautifully sung.Perhaps the debate should end on that harmonious note.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi badcat,
No I was not saying what you suggest badcat. Whatever works for you is fine. I just think we do not have to be too much wound up by some who push their views with missionary zeal. But of course if you went to a doctor or dietician the majority of times you will get received wisdom! Thats life! However we all should be willing to modify our views as new information comes along or new facts emerge in our case. Thats how science progresses! I watched the Fat Emporer on a YouTube video this am on metabolic syndrome (April 2017) it already has made me think I need to reduce red meat in my diet! D.

 

[CherryAA]

My word! Some of you on this thread are very condescending! Someone is trying to teach @Avocado Sevenfold how they speak in Scotland. Someone else is belittling a 'lass' because she is trying to help the rest of us who have problems with IR. Some of us like to learn new things whilst they are still new. Real scientific evidence can take 50 years to catch up. I won't be here that long and many of you won't either. I am willing to try something new because the old (LCHF) no longer works for me. I don't care if science now says it should work for me. It did for 5 or so years, but not now. So I need to learn something new. Thank you @AliB for sharing. I'm not there yet but am aiming for 250g carbs 14g fat and 31g protein for starters. Plant based, no animal fats at all.

I'll let you all know how my non-scientific experiment works out. Then those of you with an open mind can read it. Ardent LCHFers needn't bother.

I'm interested to know how you concluded LCHF no longer works for you ? I'm trying LCHF so far coupled with IF , doing fine on the blood sugar front but finding it very hard to lose more weight. I l know the high carb low fat route doesn't work for me so far as I was doing that whenI got diagnosed, but maybe I was simply not being extreme enough with the carbs. I would find the proportions you mention intensely difficult to deal with in terms of what could actually eat, but if would be nice to know there are other options to try.

Have you had blood tests done before making the switch so you can see what impact the switch is having on your other health marker as well?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Have you had blood tests done before making the switch so you can see what impact the switch is having on your other health marker as well?

@zand Cherry makes a very good point. It would be interesting to see how this change you propose affects your cholesterol, blood pressure, liver & kidney stuff and full blood counts etc not to mention any vitamin tests you can have thrown in.

 

[zand]

I'm interested to know how you concluded LCHF no longer works for you ? I'm trying LCHF so far coupled with IF , doing fine on the blood sugar front but finding it very hard to lose more weight. I l know the high carb low fat route doesn't work for me so far as I was doing that whenI got diagnosed, but maybe I was simply not being extreme enough with the carbs. I would find the proportions you mention intensely difficult to deal with in terms of what could actually eat, but if would be nice to know there are other options to try.

Have you had blood tests done before making the switch so you can see what impact the switch is having on your other health marker as well?

I am not losing weight on it anymore and still have 5 plus stones to lose. I don't think it is doing anything to help IR and therefore my weight. I also do IF and usually have 2 meals a day. I'm not sure how I will find the proportions, but I will take it as it comes and adapt as necessary. My BGs are OK but not as good as I would like them to be.

No I haven't had blood tests done. They are due in 3 months time.