Are we talking diets or religion? ( or maybe its all about fear?)

serenity648 said:

Would it be possible for the post by @daisy1 and the meter post by @AM1874 to be automatically whooshed to newbies?

I have no problem with people posting about their personal experiences.

I have a problem with people posting ultra low carb advice in answer to someone who is here for the first time or first week or so, before they have found their feet and taken on board the excellent advice from @daisy1 and from @AM1874 about self testing. This info should be given time to sink in before anything else, in my view.


I feel confident that, if avoiding all carbs was needed, @daisy1 would say so in her initial post.

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BUT when I was first here it helped me and I'm new so you would have stopped me from being helped. I looked at posts like the ND and Keto ones, I might have read some them, if I found myself getting over whelmed by the information I simply though, not for now, I'm busy just starting out and trying something else for the first few months. I simply put them to one side and if I wish to look them up in a months time or a years then I will do a search for them. I am glad that someone has taken the time to record their experiences on here but just because they have doesn't mean that I have to do the same or eat what they do.

As for exercise again I do what I can in the way that I can. I am not about to start jogging, or riding a bike or swimming or weight lifting. Great if people can do this but I'm not going to.

When I was first diagnosed what I needed was to get control back in my life and those very people who you would have silenced when I needed to read what they had written helped me to do that. They gave me choices and as an adult I chose the path that I took.

I have read several posts like yours asking for newcomers to be limited by moderators as to what they can read and I am appalled. It was bad enough being treated like child by the DN without it happening on here.

@BrianTheElder . Understand and support. Totally agree.
The loss of a highly respected diabetes expert, the temporary banning of a experienced helpful poster and the request by two posters to leave the forum ( one a long standing member ), begs the question.
Are we supportive and understanding? More importantly are we actually listening to what is being said?

serenity648 said:

I am talking about people who are posting in threads started by newbies, containing the newbies first few posts. I am asking people to hanging back a little in those threads and giving the newbies time to take up the advice of @daisy1 . Not preventing the newbies from reading the rest of the forums. Nothing appalling is being suggested.

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They posted in my thread AND in fact they tagged in daisy1 so that I could read her post. They were very welcoming towards me and helped me feel that I could ask questions. Nothing intimidating, no bullying, just kindness.

serenity648 said:

I also think we should hold back with our differing experiences until we have stablished what sort of diabetes someone has, whether they have any other medical conditions they have to take into account etc etc. That takes time.

For me, for example, being told exercise is essential before i even had chance to talk about my ME was discouraging. Or being told to give up all wheat, rice, potatoes etc if I am serious about reducing my blood sugars, without the advice being tailored to my digestive issues, was also disheartening. To learn, almost from ones first post, that one cant do what is 'required' made a scary situation worse. Especially as it wasnt accurate.

If I had had chance to get into the swing of lowering carbs, identifying what carbs actually are, and self testing first i would have been able to avoid the extra anxiety and tension that was, in my case, unnecessary. Self testing would have shown me the questions to ask.

So I suppose what I am trying to say is that we should back off initially, see the lie of the land, encourage a newbie to start with the small steps, before anything else.

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I agree. You make a good point. I guess I found my way to normalize bs as a type 2 by myself so was never bombarded. I also was vlc long before diabetes. Then, throw digestion in and a second storm. I have so many people asking how many calories I eat thinking I don't eat. I just eat small and often as that's all my stomach tolerates. I get my nutrition, keep my stomach and bs happy this way. I understand fasting DID work when I was type 2 but not anymore being LADA.

So we do maybe need to ease up as many of us have other issues than just blood sugar

woodywhippet61 said:

They posted in my thread AND in fact they tagged in daisy1 so that I could read her post. They were very welcoming towards me and helped me feel that I could ask questions. Nothing intimidating, no bullying, just kindness.

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Excellent. Daisy should always be one of the first. Kind and gentle. Gives us food for thought and we can do with that what we want.

therower said:

@CherryAA . Post #103 appears to have a direct reply to myself and seriously.
The Eatwell Plate is a good one. I personally do not feel it's as bad as is often portrayed. I think people often fail to actually eat it. They get the proportions wrong but assume that because the ingredients are on the plate that is all that matters. It's very easy to consume 2 or 3 times the amount of food we actually need. That can be anything, be it carbs ,fats, protein.
My own diet which suits me consists around 180/200 g daily. I appreciate this is not overly excessive compared to many non diabetics and I have based my intake on giving me results that suit me.
I eat processed food, I eat fruit , vegetables ( below and above ground ) , fresh meat, complex carbs. I try not to eat more than I need just a sensible diet.
Ultimately our conditions are very different. I have tried the diets often suggested on the forum in my years. My biggest concern for newcomers, especially is that these diets especially so soon after diagnosis can be harder to achieve than actually coming to terms with the condition first. Diagnosis is difficult, then throw in a new dietary regime and for some this could doom them to failure. There are many options open but sadly I all to often see the same one.

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I have to say, in my personal opinion and situation - I found this forum within a couple of weeks of diagnosis (on the back of surgery for ovarian and uterine cancer no less !) and found the dietary advice invaluable. For some people, the shock of diagnosis is lessened by being able to throw yourself into something that feels like your taking back control. But I appreciate that for others it might be too much - that's why the advice newbies are given by @daisy1 is invaluable - it is clear, concise and factual, and neither threatening, scary or overwhelming. It's that post that then spurred me on to look around the forum. I'm also a grown up which means I can make up my own mind about things, no matter what strange opinions this forum occasionally throws up. I believe there is no such thing as too much information, it's our job as human adults to be able to process it and put it into practice or not, depending on our own personal experiences of the disease.

Tipetoo said:

@daisy1's "info Pack" should be a sticky thread, so that new members can find it easier.

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And the one about meters 'cause I never got it despite doing searches about meters. Would have been helpful for me. I'd never heard of a Libre before coming on here

charliebarker said:

I have to say, in my personal opinion and situation - I found this forum within a couple of weeks of diagnosis (on the back of surgery for ovarian and uterine cancer no less !) and found the dietary advice invaluable. For some people, the shock of diagnosis is lessened by being able to throw yourself into something that feels like your taking back control. But I appreciate that for others it might be too much - that's why the advice newbies are given by @daisy1 is invaluable - it is clear, concise and factual, and neither threatening, scary or overwhelming. It's that post that then spurred me on to look around the forum. I'm also a grown up which means I can make up my own mind about things, no matter what strange opinions this forum occasionally throws up. I believe there is no such thing as too much information, it's our job as human adults to be able to process it and put it into practice or not, depending on our own personal experiences of the disease.

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Thank you.

therower said:

@CherryAA . Post #103 appears to have a direct reply to myself and seriously.
The Eatwell Plate is a good one. I personally do not feel it's as bad as is often portrayed. I think people often fail to actually eat it. They get the proportions wrong but assume that because the ingredients are on the plate that is all that matters. It's very easy to consume 2 or 3 times the amount of food we actually need. That can be anything, be it carbs ,fats, protein.
My own diet which suits me consists around 180/200 g daily. I appreciate this is not overly excessive compared to many non diabetics and I have based my intake on giving me results that suit me.
I eat processed food, I eat fruit , vegetables ( below and above ground ) , fresh meat, complex carbs. I try not to eat more than I need just a sensible diet.
Ultimately our conditions are very different. I have tried the diets often suggested on the forum in my years. My biggest concern for newcomers, especially is that these diets especially so soon after diagnosis can be harder to achieve than actually coming to terms with the condition first. Diagnosis is difficult, then throw in a new dietary regime and for some this could doom them to failure. There are many options open but sadly I all to often see the same one.

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Ok sorry I certainly didn't mean to suggest a long standing member was in need of an @daisy1 reply ! so it never occurred to me it might be taken as being in reply to you .I should have been more specific . I apologise. None of my comments were directed to T1 at all. For T2 - I am not sure I see that there are may options - only change the diet and reduce/ get rid of the drugs, or don't do that and see more drugs and more ill health down the line.

The answer for T2 is diet, not matter how you shape it and no matter how far you take it. Anyone thinking that somehow they can carry on before and somehow that will be fine as long as they take the medication is dooming themselves to a life of illness and deterioration. As one who was recently diagnosed I for one am pleased that I found a place that very firmly said - " here is what you need to do, if you can do that , you should recover your health quickly" I am daily thankful that I found this one instead of one which opined on what is the better type of biscuit to be eating within a healthy balanced diet.

@charliebarker . It's good you got what you needed from joining the forum.
Let's be under no illusion here. Many newcomers are given information long before daisy1 gets tagged in. I've seen it and it's the same people giving the advice.
Greetings and introductions should be just that and nothing more. For sure direct people to sub forums on the site but we don't we go full on with " you've got to get a meter ( all information supplied), I suggest a specific diet because " I " have achieved x amount of weight loss and reduced my HbA1C by y amount.
Newcomers need a welcome not a lecture.
You are right information is essential. Unfortunately people give it easily but fail to gather it quite so easily.
I have yet to see a newcomer be asked what there lifestyle is , age is, sex is , health status is and what there average daily life involves. Yet we manage to give information on how to manage there lives.
Perfect example. I assumed you was male and in your 20's based solely on your name and avatar. I've never asked and up until recently wasn't aware of any other conditions you have had to overcome. I made an assumption!!!!!!!!

therower said:

@charliebarker . It's good you got what you needed from joining the forum.
Let's be under no illusion here. Many newcomers are given information long before daisy1 gets tagged in. I've seen it and it's the same people giving the advice.
Greetings and introductions should be just that and nothing more. For sure direct people to sub forums on the site but we don't we go full on with " you've got to get a meter ( all information supplied), I suggest a specific diet because " I " have achieved x amount of weight loss and reduced my HbA1C by y amount.
Newcomers need a welcome not a lecture.
You are right information is essential. Unfortunately people give it easily but fail to gather it quite so easily.
I have yet to see a newcomer be asked what there lifestyle is , age is, sex is , health status is and what there average daily life involves. Yet we manage to give information on how to manage there lives.
Perfect example. I assumed you was male and in your 20's based solely on your name and avatar. I've never asked and up until recently wasn't aware of any other conditions you have had to overcome. I made an assumption!!!!!!!!

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Hmm
well when I joined I loved the fact that someone took the time to say to me , you are just like I was and I'm doing ok now. The @ daisy message is good but its clearly a generic response, not a person to person contact. I wasn't looking for an boiler plate response I was looking for a real person to engage with me . Those personal messages gave me a lot of hope in what was a very upsetting moment. I have also frequently asked people if they can provide precisely the kind of info you are suggesting when they arrive and ask for help but provide no background at all.

When has a meter EVER been an bad idea? At any stage of the game. Certainly can't hurt no matter what your diet

Most new people with type 2 are somewhat bewildered and confused when they join. They may have heard that diabetes can lead to blindness, amputations and ten years less life expectancy. Many suffer from blurred vision from high blood sugar. Many have adverse reaction to metformin. The advice given by their GP may be a bit sketchy, such as avoid sugar and do more exercise.

It does appear that most people with type 2 can get their blood sugars down to normal levels by monitoring which foods spike their blood sugars and changing their diet accordingly. The success stories threads show what can be achieved and how it can be achieved. New people need to get the advice of what works best to manage diabetes. Whether they follow that advice is up to them.

Tipetoo said:

@daisy1's "info Pack" should be a sticky thread, so that new members can find it easier.

It should be a sticky thread here Greetings and Introductions.

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like this one you mean http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.17088/ which is a sticky in greetings and introduction. People do not look so we tag daisy to help

I just wish that @Seriously (now a guest) had stayed until this morning. I was going to suggest they start their own thread, with a request that zealots don't bother writing on it. I agree that for T2 the best way to approach it is through diet and reducing carbs. I started off gently by cutting out bread and pasta, then potatoes. I began to lose a little weight and was encouraged by this to take it further. That was 6 years ago.

This used to be a very friendly site, but it appears to have changed recently. @therower I am concerned about recent bans too. I would like a system whereby the person who is banned is told clearly why they have been banned, and then given time to reply. This would stop any misunderstandings or abuse of the system. From posts I have read on here I am not convinced this is being done. Going back a few years people were banned and not told why and I fear it is happening again. It certainly looks that way to me. Are all mods told why someone has been banned? Do they all discuss it? Or is it left to any of them to just ban someone at will? Maybe simply because that particular mod doesn't agree with the person? I ask because 3 years ago we asked for more transparency, fairness and consistency and the forum seems to have taken a backward step in these areas.

I love this place and don't want to see it going downhill. All views should be welcome, not just LCHF. And yes I follow LCHF myself, but I like hearing about other methods too.

What appears to be missing from this forum is a Success with the Eatwell plate section...