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Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemic

cailesmark

Member
Messages
6
Has anybody experienced a similar event?
I had a lunch meeting some two weeks ago.
I consumed more alcohol than expected.
I also am not a big drinker, since being diagnosed type 1 in 19888.
This meeting was in central London, Covent garden to be precise.
I had also forgotten my test kit which I had left in my car at a tube car park in west London.
I had with me my fast acting insulin, but did not have my long acting insulin or blood pressure/cholesterol tablets which were at the hotel room I had booked into about twenty minutes, drive from the tube station car park.

On realising that I had drunk far to much to even consider driving, also feeling ill and wanting to get back to my hotel, my friend and me headed back on the tube to our separate destinations.

My intention was to go back to my car, collect my blood test kit and my hotel room keys and get a taxi back to the hotel.
During the tube journey back I became more and more unwell, showing classic symptoms of Hyperglycaemia. At South Kensington station I had to leave the tube and had to vomit on the station. At this point my friend had to leave me to carry on my journey alone. I was experiencing more and more Hyperglycaemic symptoms however not having my test kit with me I did not want to administer any fast acting insulin, for obvious reasons. I eventually arrived at my tube station and headed for the car.
On getting into the car i placed the keys into the ignition as in order to phone a taxi i needed to charge my mobile, I did not as far as I am aware turn on the engine, although the radio was on. I must also add at this point that I also intended to purchase
a ticket for the car park as the one I had ran out at midnight.
The next thing I recollect is a police officer screaming through my partially open window that i should get out the car NOW!!
I got out of the car and he proceeded to give me a roadside breath test informing me that he suspected me of being in charge of a vehicle whilst being above the prescribed legal limit of alcohol. Whilst this was going on I tried, to no avail, to explain the circumstances and that their had been no intention by me to drive.
This fell on deaf ears, and subsequent to a positive breath test I was handcuffed and arrested for the above offence.
At this point I asked if the officer could bring with him my test kit out of the glove compartment as I was a diabetic and concerned that I was suffering from Hyperglycaemia. His response was that they would deal with that at the station, at this point I was bundled into a police car and taken to the station.
At the station I was searched, as I constantly mentioned my diabetes and my Hyperglycaemia, there response was that we will deal with that through the FME (DOCTOR) but first we need to test you on the machine for alcohol levels book you in and also test you for drugs. I continued to mention my diabetes to no avail. I was arrested at about 22:00 hours and this process lasted until about 23:00 hours. all the way through I was told that the doctor was on his way. The custody Sgt then informed me that as I was over the prescribed limit I would be placed in a cell for the night until they deemed me fit to interview, I again requested my test kit and fast acting insulin, the reply was that the officer had not brought my test kit and I could not have my insulin until a doctor arrived as they did not know what I could be injecting?
They then man handled me into a cell. I continued to protest by pressing the door bell, eventually after about 6 operations of the bell they told me the doctor would be delayed and if they thought it was a medical emergency they would call an ambulance. I said it was and I was now feeling very unwell and Hyperglycaemic, They disagreed and implied that it was because of the alcohol, wait for the doctor. They then switched off the alarm bell. I continued to protest and tried to get their attention by kicking the door, only to be ignored. With no other option to me as far as I could see and knowing there was CCTV covering the cell, I took of my shirt, wrapped it around my neck and screamed out of frustration that this was the only way to get a response to my concerns.
At this point 3 officers burst through the door, at this point I through the shirt into the corner of the cell, at this point the officers grappled me to the floor face down, handcuffed me behind my back and strapping my legs together from the thighs down to the ankles. During this restraint I suffered a blow to my right ear and side of my head also what I can only describe as a severe dead leg. After about half an our trussed up like a chicken I was released having had to promise that I would behave?
I was then moved to another cell as they were expecting allot more people in on a fri night. The new cell also had a toilet in it because they were sick of me asking to g to the toilet. The cell door was kept open with an officer posted at the door because I was now classed as a suicide risk?
The doctor eventually arrived at 0300 Hrs. He could not have been less interested. He tested my blood sugar level after asking some basic questions. IT WAS 28 MMOLs. He suggested that because he did not have access to any of my long acting insulin, that he would let me give myself 8 units of my fast acting and that would be sufficient until the next doctor would be in at around 09:00 later that morning. I administered, under his observation 8 units of fast acting insulin, he then let the police return me to the cell and left.
The doctor that turned up at 09:00 tested my blood and it was then at 12 MMOLs and he suggested that I have something to eat, and administer my insulin as I normally would. I said that considering what I had been through I was not interested in eating. His response was to say so you are refusing food, advised the police officers to return me to my cell and left. I eventually was interviewed re the offence at about 11:30. Charged and released at about 13:30 Hrs.
IS THERE ANY WONDER THAT DIABETICS DIE IN CUSTODY!!!!! Any comments or experiences of a similar vein.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

My advice would be to remember that you are a Type 1 Diabetic and to stay clear away from alcohol in future. Forgetting your test kit and your meds is also a no-no. And I'd also choose better friends who won't leave you in the lurch if something like this happens again. As you'd put the keys in the ignition for whatever reason, the police were within their rights to ask you to get out of the car. In fact they may have saved your life in the long run and perhaps a pedestrian or two also.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it sounds like in your case, drinking alcohol in any quantity won't do you any favours at all.

:wave:
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I do hope that you are getting good legal help and advice for the circumstances as the treatment you received was totally unacceptable. Have you for instance asked for access to the CCTV tapes ? Do get good, sound legal advice.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I agree with Grace 100%. cailesmark told us that he knew he was under the influence of alcohol!! Yet, he opened his car door and placed the keys in the ignition which is all that is needed to place him in charge of a motor vehicle whilst under the influence of alcohol. He has committed an offence and cannot wriggle his way out of it by blaming police!! His admitted behaviour in custody also showed extreme behaviour. We have his version - what about the custody officer and police surgeons' statements?? He could have asked any responsible passer by to help him retrieve his test kit, etc. Any jury would have great difficulty in believing that he did not intend to drive. It is no wonder police always the losers in cases like this. As for dying in custody - he was hyperactive not hyperglycaemic - also remember how far he said he was able to travel in his serious condition (sick on the way as well). I thought like Nikkig when giving this post a cursory first reading but a re-read tells me to ignore the legal representation except perhaps for mitigation and that's stretching it.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Er, excuse me? Maybe I'm being gullible by taking the original post at face value, but that's what I'm doing.

No cailesmark shouldn't have put the keys in the ignition and the police were completely within their rights to arrest him on suspicion of being in charge of a vehicle whilst being above the prescribed legal limit of alcohol... but that does NOT mean he should have been treated as he was. And it does not mean that 'since he had been drinking he deserved what he got'. I cannot believe in the year 2012 that the police are STILL so ignorant of type1 diabetes and how dangerous it is to not receive the necessary treatment when needed. And the 'care' of the doctors is beyond belief too!

Since when does having type1 diabetes mean you can't drink alcohol? And everyone slips up and forgets things now and then. I know I do. What happened to being human?!? No his behaviour wasn't the best and he may have done some silly things, but have you ever experienced a blood sugar of 28? I have. You certainly aren't thinking coherantly, alcohol or no alcohol.


I am disgusted on your behalf cailesmark! It is totally wrong that you were treated in this way and as you say, no wonder so many diabetics die in custody... it's appalling!!

I hope you have a good lawyer!
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Well that was an interesting start to my forum experience! Thanks GRACEK for your somewhat self righteous post, I assume you are teetotal? And you have never forgotten to take your test kit with you? NIKKIG, Thank you for the advice, yes I have a very good lawyer who is currently obtaining the custody record, CCTV recordings in relation to the separate issue of my treatment in custody, and my separate complaint to the IPCC.
Well, BALIROB what can I say, you are obviously fully conversant with the law, however, I would just like to point out that there should be an al edged in the following I hope your not the magistrate? "He has -------- committed an offence and cannot wriggle his way out of it by blaming police!!" And as clarification, the police have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that I intended to drive. Any way not to carry on justifying my actions any further all I was hoping to achieve was some debate over the issue of the lack of duty of care during custody and the still ignorance of diabetic symptoms by the police. Mod Edit (unneeded insults)
Thanks picklebean you seem to have grasped the point I was trying to make.
I will keep you all updated as to the conclusion of this issue, although in getting some of these responses from supposed diabetics will have to think seriously as to whether I continue.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I don't know if this says anything different to the link that Catherine gave you but it's quite detailed and from the doctors perspective rather than the police's.
Faculty of Forensic and Legal Medicine
Recommendations
Management of Diabetes Mellitus in Custody
http://fflm.ac.uk/upload/documents/1334659904.pdf
Interestingly a level of 28 is a bit in limbo
Hyperglycaemia
If blood glucose >25mmol/l and there is
evidence of impairment of level of
consciousness/confusion or concurrent
infection, then refer immediately to hospital.
Safe practice would mean that the HCP should
consider immediate hospital transfer for those
DPs with a BG >30mmol/l.
DPs with levels between 12-25mmol/l would
normally be Fit to be Detained (FTBD), but an
individual global assessment (this may include
urinalysis) needs to be undertaken.
It may be safer practice to maintain BG levels
higher than optimal community levels to
reduce vulnerability to hypoglycaemia during
detention.
In impaired consciousness, regardless of the
BG reading, the HCP should carefully consider
the need for hospital referral.
Did they check for ketones?
None of us know, what happened, sickness is a symptom of hyperglycemia as well as too much alcohol.
I remember that a week before I was diagnosed I was horribly sick and ill on a relatively small amount of alcohol..I was very drunk. (it reminded me of when I was 14 and I hadn't been that way for almost 40 years). A lack of insulin and alcohol don't go together.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Hi Cailesmark

i read yr message earlier this afternoon and got fairly upset to read the way you were treated by the police. Its not acceptable and although you were the worse for drink when you got into your car to get your bg meter and insulin pen, the police should have been aware that with some modern cars, its necessary to put the key in the ignition in order to open the glove compartment... such is the way modern technology is these days. The arresting officer could have easily taken your bg meter and insulin pen out of the glove compartment anyway and tested your bg levels at the station to find out whether you were going hypo or hyper and called for a doctor to come and see you asap not hours later... They could have also contacted the DVLA to confirm that you were an insulin dependant diabetic. I hope that your solicitor will be able to do something for you as it could have cost you your life and then there would have been 'big trouble' for the officers in question and the duty sargent.

My advice to you though is that alcohol and insulin really dont mix very well. I too have been just like you when I was younger when some people got me fairly drunk and I was so so sick...... they swore they would never do it to me again. I think you will probably think twice about drinking in future and just stay within safe limits and alternate with diet fizz.....and have your bg meter on you with yr pen just in case.

All the best..
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

picklebean said:
Er, excuse me? Maybe I'm being gullible by taking the original post at face value, but that's what I'm doing.

No cailesmark shouldn't have put the keys in the ignition and the police were completely within their rights to arrest him on suspicion of being in charge of a vehicle whilst being above the prescribed legal limit of alcohol... but that does NOT mean he should have been treated as he was. And it does not mean that 'since he had been drinking he deserved what he got'. I cannot believe in the year 2012 that the police are STILL so ignorant of type1 diabetes and how dangerous it is to not receive the necessary treatment when needed. And the 'care' of the doctors is beyond belief too!

Since when does having type1 diabetes mean you can't drink alcohol? And everyone slips up and forgets things now and then. I know I do. What happened to being human?!? No his behaviour wasn't the best and he may have done some silly things, but have you ever experienced a blood sugar of 28? I have. You certainly aren't thinking coherantly, alcohol or no alcohol.


I am disgusted on your behalf cailesmark! It is totally wrong that you were treated in this way and as you say, no wonder so many diabetics die in custody... it's appalling!!

I hope you have a good lawyer!

I have to agree with you there picklebean.We all make mistakes. It appears as though he had been dragged through the streets, with people shouting unclean, unclean throwing him in the stocks, throwing rotten veg and then a bit of tar and feathering, jeeessss!!!!!!so one has ever made a mistake or made the wrong judgement. He made a couple of silly mistakes, more alcohol then he is used to and not having his testing kit. What happened sounds so frightening.

caliesmark, I do hope you return with an update and you continue to contribute to the forum.

Once is a mistake, twice is a habit :wink: I'm sure a huge lesson has been learned.

As for the Police isn't it supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty'. I wish you well with best wishes RRB
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Robinredbreast said:
picklebean said:
Er, excuse me? Maybe I'm being gullible by taking the original post at face value, but that's what I'm doing.

No cailesmark shouldn't have put the keys in the ignition and the police were completely within their rights to arrest him on suspicion of being in charge of a vehicle whilst being above the prescribed legal limit of alcohol... but that does NOT mean he should have been treated as he was. And it does not mean that 'since he had been drinking he deserved what he got'. I cannot believe in the year 2012 that the police are STILL so ignorant of type1 diabetes and how dangerous it is to not receive the necessary treatment when needed. And the 'care' of the doctors is beyond belief too!

Since when does having type1 diabetes mean you can't drink alcohol? And everyone slips up and forgets things now and then. I know I do. What happened to being human?!? No his behaviour wasn't the best and he may have done some silly things, but have you ever experienced a blood sugar of 28? I have. You certainly aren't thinking coherantly, alcohol or no alcohol.


I am disgusted on your behalf cailesmark! It is totally wrong that you were treated in this way and as you say, no wonder so many diabetics die in custody... it's appalling!!

I hope you have a good lawyer!

I have to agree with you there picklebean.We all make mistakes. It appears as though he had been dragged through the streets, with people shouting unclean, unclean throwing him in the stocks, throwing rotten veg and then a bit of tar and feathering, jeeessss!!!!!!so one has ever made a mistake or made the wrong judgement. He made a couple of silly mistakes, more alcohol then he is used to and not having his testing kit. What happened sounds so frightening.

caliesmark, I do hope you return with an update and you continue to contribute to the forum.

Once is a mistake, twice is a habit :wink: I'm sure a huge lesson has been learned.

As for the Police isn't it supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty'. I wish you well with best wishes RRB


Have to agree with you RRB, Its a shame his friends didnt look out for him xxx
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Dear Cailesmark, I completely agree with Picklebean, iHs and Robinredbreast about the obscene way you were treated and yes you may have type 1 diabetes but that doesn't mean that you cannot have a drink occasionally. Please let us all know how all of this is taken care of, regards to you on your endeavors, Debra
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Not surprised at all at the police treatment. Thugs with uniforms, little hitlers. I've thought that since I was 17 and saw them beat up my friends who had done nothing. I'm 57 now and still of the same opinion, take one look at Hillsborough, they are even worse now. And even watching some of the docu stuff on TV, they are heavy handed. Not forgetting that they 'kettled' the games makers at the olympic parade.
So good luck with your claim.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

cailesmark said:
Well that was an interesting start to my forum experience! Thanks GRACEK for your somewhat self righteous post, I assume you are teetotal? And you have never forgotten to take your test kit with you?

cailesmark ... my response was honest ... and it was from my own experience, not meant to be self righteous at all. Yes, I'm tee-total but I haven't always been. I learned a few years ago that even a little alcohol was having a very strong effect on me and therefore, I had to avoid it, like I have to avoid other things because it placed me in danger.

My comments to you were well meant and I also felt that your treatment from the Police was completely atrocious but having worked alongside the Police in another capacity I understand that their priorities may not be the same as say, the priorities of the medical profession. Therefore, my advice was given on the basis that you should avoid getting into a similar position again. The Police are trained in quite a different way to the medical profession, so it's as well to be aware of that before putting ourselves in danger.

And to be honest, even though I don't know you, I feel I have more concern for your welfare than the so called 'friend' you say parted company with you when you needed them most. I hope things turn out well for you.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Hi cailesmark,
Yes your treatment was disgusting and yes do complain as DKA could have cost you your life.

Sorry to have to tell you this though, you will get a ban for being under the influence. (You had the key in the ignition so you were in charge of the vichle.)
At least you have now learnt even if it's the hard and expensive way, drinking to much and diabetes do not make a good mix.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I used to be one of those "thugs in uniform" and I think the description of the police in this way is unkind and unnecessary, but that is a totally different debate. However, the reason I suggested that a good lawyer should be used is the fact that one of the first things we we taught when at training school was to consider Diabetic problems when dealing with people who appeared to be drunk! I know this was back in the seventies but I cannot see why the same shouldn't apply now.
The description of the treatment during custody is appalling and that was what my original advice purported to. There was a recent case in Wiltshire where a drunken women was treated in a poor fashion (thrown around etc) and the sergeant was eventually charged and taken to court. I have never found it necessary to treat people without respect when in custody, although force was necessary at times - some of those I dealt with during my career, especially on CID, were violent and unpredictable. But we all have the right to decent treatment whatever we have done to fall foul of the law.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Yes your treatment was disgusting and yes do complain as DKA could have cost you your life.
Progression is: severe symptoms (tachycardia, hyperventilation, a noticeable smell of ketones on your breath) > coma > death

Whilst the actions of the police do demonstrate a shocking lack of understanding of diabetes, or preparedness for detaining diabetics*; I'd have hoped that they'd call an ambulance before comatose detainees die...

* In particular, since they accepted that OP needs insulin but they couldn't let him have it since no doctor was present, they should have either sent for one urgently or called an ambulance - if they are not competent to deal with it, then they have to take his complaints seriously. If they don't have a BG meter and/or anyone trained to use it, they'll have to call an ambulance every time someone mentions the word "diabetes".
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Hi,

Your story is quite remarkable, legal issues which you appear to have full control started in a car park with a barrier of a kind I presume.

The treatment you received is a total disgrace.

I thank you for highlighting your experience which is causing you a lot frustration. However it should be known how bad Diabetic's can be treated.

As for myself, I was asleep in my car, The police were quite understanding, and advised me to remove keys and start walking home.
( it may well have been the hell your going through)

We all make honest mistakes.

Roy.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Well Nikkig, you have 1st hand knowledge then of the pack mentality of the police. Its just state legitamized violence.
 
Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

dawnmc said:
Well Nikkig, you have 1st hand knowledge then of the pack mentality of the police. Its just state legitamized violence.
Dawn, it would seem that you have had some bad experience with the police and it is sad that you feel the need to tar us all with the same brush. However, the advise I gave, I felt, was in the best interest of the original post.
I would also end this conversation with you by saying that I was very proud of my public service and when people like you criticise the people who I have worked with and question my integrity, I would ask you to think for a minute and ask yourself, how many times you have been to the scene of an accident and dealt with the horror that you see, scraped a person's bits of brain from a tree, tell parents that their child has died, comforted a woman who has been raped, dealt fairly and within the law with people who have committed some of the most horrible crimes and despicable acts that you can imagine, put yourself in danger to make other people's lives safer? I have done all those things and more and I am proud of my service to the community - are you?
I shall make no more posts to this particular question
 
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