Atkins and an already rasied cholestorol rating

Hi,

The Atkins diet was the focus of a recent discussion on this forum, here is the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13834&hilit=atkins

On the first post is a recent article printed in the Daily Mail warning of the dangers associated with the Atkins diet. Do read it through and then make your own mind up.

Regards

Nigel

I would steer clear of Atkins as a diabetic - all other people are fine. I think that it can force your body into Ketosis due to the lack of carbs - your body needs some kind of carb to function fully. I would try a reduced carb diet - as its coming up to summer now its easier as we dont look for comfort foods in the form of mashed potates pasta & rice when the weather is warmer.
I am type 1 and have recently undergone the DAFNE course and in 7 weeks, by reducing my carb intake and only eating when hungry, i have lost 17.5lb and its still slowly coming off.

franclegg said:

I would steer clear of Atkins as a diabetic - all other people are fine. I think that it can force your body into Ketosis due to the lack of carbs - your body needs some kind of carb to function fully. I would try a reduced carb diet - as its coming up to summer now its easier as we dont look for comfort foods in the form of mashed potates pasta & rice when the weather is warmer.
I am type 1 and have recently undergone the DAFNE course and in 7 weeks, by reducing my carb intake and only eating when hungry, i have lost 17.5lb and its still slowly coming off.

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Well done on the weight loss franclegg, I too found the DAFNE course beneficial!

Nigel

coreservers said:

I have this week cut out bread, and pasta. an will review in a week as to what difference it has made. and will cut out more carbs as i go, but wieghtloss is my priority at the moment

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Good plan, you can get much more complicated than you really need to. 8)

I have found that by cutting out all the starchy carbs my BG levels are good. My cholesterol is fine and seems totally unaffected by the butter, cream, olive oil, coconut oil etc. I think there is more of a problem cause by the combination of fat and carbs but that is just my personal observations.

There is a huge difference between ketosis, which is a benign and probably normal condition and Diabetic Keto-Acidosis[DKA] which is a medical emergency. One of the key differences is that ketosis with low blood glucose won't hurt you, but ketoacidosis with high blood glucose will kill.
I've done a LOAD of searching and haven't found any studies which show scientifically that Atkins is harmful to anyone, even if diabetic. Most of what is written is prejudice and based on"everybody knows"; like they all knew that the sun wentt round the Earth!!!! :?
One thing which has been demonstrated about the Atkins Diet, is that it reduces Cholesterol. Having just read"The Great Cholesterol Con" I wonder if that is actually a good thing.
Hana

When diagnosed T2 I had a cholesterol of 7 and trigs of 6. After following a relatively low carb/low Gi diet, my cholesterol dropped to 4.1 and my trigs dropped to 1.2, both normal range figures. I don't go out of my way to eat saturated fats nor do I go out of my way to avoid them. I'm convinced that if you get your BG under control, cholesterol and trigs will follow suit automatically. However, like Hana, I've just finished Kendrick's book and he makes a compelling case for the irrelevance of cholesterol in CVD.

About two in three adults have a cholesterol level that is higher than recommended. Having high cholesterol affects your heart and blood vessels and increases your risk of developing cardiovascular disease (CVD). High cholesterol causes fatty deposits (known as plaques) to build up inside your blood vessels. In time, the blood vessels supplying your heart may become so narrow that they can't deliver enough oxygen to the heart muscle, particularly when you're exerting yourself. This can cause you to feel chest pain (angina). If a fatty plaque breaks off, it may cause a blood clot which can block blood flow to your heart (heart attack) or brain (stroke).

So although you might think the wonderful Mr Kendrick's argument is 'compelling', most cardiologists and those who deal with this stuff on a daily basis think he is a 'quack' ! The other side of the argument is posted here, as one who has seen a relative suffer because of this stuff, I think I know who I prefer to believe. It certainly 'aint Mr Kendrick.

Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. All I can say is that I was told by my health care team that I must take a statin and would never get my lipids into normal range by diet alone - I didn't take the statin and I did achieve normal range.

PS It's Dr Kendrick, not Mr.

Cliff.
I congratulate you on getting your lipids down to normal levels without using a Statin, mind you if you believe Mr Kendrick then what levels would they be then ? Higher than recommended.......??

There are many of us who HAVE to use a Statin, I tried diet and exercise for years and it didn't work, so I had to take a Statin. As someone who has had major Heart Surgery there is no way I want to risk the good work done by my Surgeon......just on the say so of Mr Kendrick and a few others.

So yes, we will have to agree to disagree.......I want to live a long and fruitful life without any CVD risks hanging on to my coat tails !

Ken

A good article here from the British Heart Foundation on the subject of cholesterol:

http://www.bhf.org.uk/Keeping-your-hear ... terol.aspx

Nigel

That article is another of the "everybody knows" type. It doesn't cite any evidence, which the book DOES.
I don't believe anything scientific until I can see and evaluate the evidence for myself.
I think the field of nutrition has so Much BAD SCIENCE. It starts with Ancel Keys' 7 countries study, which is pretty much "banking fraud" level and goes on and on as if it were properly tested and peer reviewed. It states "Black is White" and gullible people believe and repeat it.
If you look at "The Great Cholesterol Con" and "The Diet Delusion"
Both books have pages of references to studies, which you can look up and evaluate.
Atkins does give evidence for his work. He was after all a cardiologist. In the USA, where if he injured his patients, he'd have been sued out of his license to practise.
I had a scientific education[I do have letters after my name] and one thing I learned early in that training, was to question evidence. The "saturated fat causes high cholesterol, causes Cardiovascular disease" doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The medical establishment is in a cleft stick. Those doctors have no mechanism for admitting they were wrong., so they go on preachin what many of them realise doesn't work, because they follow qrthodoxy.
Hana

So the BRITISH HEART FOUNDATION , Eminant Cardiologists and other specialists in that area, including cholesterol, know nothing about CVD then ?!!!!!!!!!!!!

They also have plenty of reference material that is available for THEM to study.

BAD SCIENCE can also come from those that only wish to make money from selling their books to gullible people looking for the perpetual 'magic bullet' to cure all ills.

This video has been flashed around on the forum before. Skip to 0:36:30 for a fairly simple explanation of the great cholesterol cuss-up.
[youtube]dBnniua6-oM[/youtube]

It's a Sad Thing that "Experts" don't always know best. Most of us here don't think very highly of Diabetes Uk's attitude to diet. In a similar way, the British Heart foundation have got washed up on the "diet/Heart" theory and don't question it often enough.
Saturated fats haven't been Proven to cause CVD. It doesn't matter who or how often they say it's so. I WANT THE EVIDENCE. I can read a research paper and I can get hold of most of them, so why would any doctor hide evidence from me if it proved the point? More likely to hide the fact that there's no evidence.
As to writing books to sell. That is VERY HARD to do. A book has to convince a LOT of PEOPLE before it even gets published and once in the bookshops, it has to convince buyers.
However, A doctor has a "captive audience". ONLY doctors [and NURSE practitioners] can give you access to treatment. They don't need to show you evidence. they know the white coat and stethoscope around the neck will convince most people they knoew what they are talking about.
Every now and again,someone poses as a doctor and gets away with it or a doctor kills patients because he/she did something wrong.
Hana

hanadr said:

If you look at "The Great Cholesterol Con" and "The Diet Delusion"

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Err........................no thanks I think I'll give it a miss! :roll:

Nigel

hanadr said:

It's a Sad Thing that "Experts" don't always know best.

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Really!!!!! :shock:......oh well we shall bow to your expert knowledge on matters! :roll:

Nigel

Silly us. We should be listening to the staunch low carb high fat brigade. They know best.
I'll tell my cardiologist at my next appointment that he really is out of date and should look here for all the advice he needs. Perhaps he could p.m. some of you for help. After all, if some people here are to believed, then he has fallen by the wayside and not kept abreast of any changes in opinions or new ways of combating the problem. I don't know what his response will be but can hazard a guess :roll: :roll:
There will always be a division here about this topic but I will put my trust in him.

Just to remind us all, here is a article about how Dr Atkins high-fat diet attributed to his poor health and demise......................

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1454414 ... tkins.html

Nigel