Thanks for the link. Seems there's always the same professional argument -
No long term data on the safety of a LCHF diet.
There are many thousands of contributors to this forum who have many years experience of LCHF - in my case 8 years & I am fit & well at 77. Previous I had followed the Duk/NHS high carb diet & it destroyed my health by debilitating complications.
The BBC1 Panorama showed the surgical approach - amputation & bariatric surgery. I phoned the helpline & they recommended contact with Duk. They only give advice to have a lot fat diet. They are not against reducing carb, but low carb, low fat is not a practical diet.
I think there is often a misunderstanding about what constitutes 'evidence' for medical / nutrition science - one big problem with the testimony of lots of individuals is that it's not objective but subjective. Dietary studies are notoriously difficult, because on the whole, people are pretty poor at reporting what they've eaten, forgetting the odd biscuit, under-estimating the portion size they had etc. Some studies address this issue by essentially tightly controlling what people eat, by locking them up in a hospital for instance, but obviously you can't do that for a long term study.
Another issue is the problem of self-selection element - if you were take the evidence of the people on here, there would be an issue that meant you couldn't extrapolate to the whole of society - the people on here who'd be happy to contribute are the ones who'd generally had success, or at least were motivated enough to have tried, there are not a random un-biased sample by any means - you might as well do a survey on wealth distribution in Harrods.
What I've found about the LCHF diet is that it's easy if you're doing it for the whole family, but harder when your family still want to have carbs - they're in the house, you have to cook 2 meals sometimes etc; it takes a bit of creativity and cooking skill and a lot of people don't have that; it's very hard to stick you if you travel a lot. I really don't think it would work for everybody - and there's another area of knowledge which we don't have - for whom is LCHF suitable - not just lifestyle issues like the above, but also there are many types of diabetes, in combination with other conditions - and LCHF won't necessarily be the best choice in the case of certain combinations. It's this kind of evidence that doctors are missing - they want clear guidelines - GPs in particular can't be experts in everything, and generally they want to have a distilled simple plan to follow, compiled by the best experts in the field, and based on the best evidence.
It takes a lot for a GP to go against the guidelines they're told to work under. It's the NHS that needs convincing as a whole.
Everything you say applies to the recommended low fat diet as well as the low carb diet, but our health professionals don't have any problems explaining or promoting low fat diets. The diets should, at the least, be given to patients as an equal choice-- let the patients decide which diet makes more sense for carb-challenged people with diabetes.
I've watched, having found it on youtube, the programme. It was really interesting.Another issue is the problem of self-selection element - if you were take the evidence of the people on here, there would be an issue that meant you couldn't extrapolate to the whole of society - the people on here who'd be happy to contribute are the ones who'd generally had success, or at least were motivated enough to have tried, there are not a random un-biased sample by any means - you might as well do a survey on wealth distribution in Harrods.
I've watched, having found it on youtube, the programme. It was really interesting.
About what you're saying, I think you nailed the point. The self-selection on success stories and the increased awareness on what one eats could make the difference.
I am using an app on the smartphone to more or less track the calories and carb intake and what I've found is that is easy to unwittingly eat a lot of carbs (more than 65% of calories intake) even following an 'healthy' diet. Simply trying to stay under 50% of carbs intake requires some thought about what one eats, for instance stop eating bread: if you start to have to be attentive on what you eat, I think you start to eat healthier, and this could make the difference.
I find much of the info floating around on this site is not based on solid evidence - advice that either works for that person but can't be extrapolated out to other diabetics or the general population, or doesn't work but the person believes it does. Some is based on 'common-sense' principles such as the Paleo diet, but goes against scientific evidence.
In my opinion, like the NHS's advice, it's outdated and based on low-quality evidence. There is reasonable evidence that for some people LCHF works - But then similar evidence exists for the traditional low-cal diet,Maybe - BUT the "scientific evidence" presented by DUK as if it were reliable & trustworthy is anything but.
I say it depends on the individual person as to what suits them ..there is no one size fits all especially when it come to diets... I am sure there are many on this forum who do things differently to LCHF yet are still doing wellIn my opinion, like the NHS's advice, it's outdated and based on low-quality evidence. There is reasonable evidence that for some people LCHF works - But then similar evidence exists for the traditional low-cal diet,
I don't think there's a definitive study across the whole population that says low carb is better than the general low cal, low fat diet. It's not 100% that LCHF works for everyone. Like many complicated things, there isn't a simple answer. Diabetes UK and the NHS who seem to follow their advice need a radical re-think on type 2, because as a whole it's getting worse not better.
Part of a new approach might include suggesting sufferers try the LCHF, or targetting those that would benefit.
I think though that we should stop calling it a name with 'high fat' in it - it's not helping, we really mean, 'not low fat' or 'reasonable fat'.
I think though that we should stop calling it a name with 'high fat' in it - it's not helping, we really mean, 'not low fat' or 'reasonable fat'.
In my opinion, like the NHS's advice, it's outdated and based on low-quality evidence. There is reasonable evidence that for some people LCHF works - But then similar evidence exists for the traditional low-cal diet,
I don't think there's a definitive study across the whole population that says low carb is better than the general low cal, low fat diet. It's not 100% that LCHF works for everyone. Like many complicated things, there isn't a simple answer. Diabetes UK and the NHS who seem to follow their advice need a radical re-think on type 2, because as a whole it's getting worse not better.
Part of a new approach might include suggesting sufferers try the LCHF, or targetting those that would benefit.
I think though that we should stop calling it a name with 'high fat' in it - it's not helping, we really mean, 'not low fat' or 'reasonable fat'.
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