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Berberis Aristica (berberine)

Ricky

Well-Known Member
Messages
297
Location
Merseyside
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I am interested in those of you who are taking berberine. In what form are you taking it? I have just been doing research on Berberis Aristata and in fact have ordered some 500mg capsules. The research paper I looked at reckoned you need to take 1 x 500mg capsule at every meal and that it works as well as metformin and takes 3 months to kick in. My problem is high fasting numbers but I sleep in 2 hours stints only . By lunch time my bg is in the mid 5's so I'm fine with that.
 
Ricky said:
The research paper I looked at reckoned you need to take 1 x 500mg capsule at every meal and that it works as well as metformin and takes 3 months to kick in.
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I wonder why it takes as much as 3 months? I noticed in the paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5839379/ the following: "In a three months trial, 36 patients with T2DM were randomly assigned with berberine or metformin."

The trial only lasted three months but they were still noting: "It was found that hypoglycemic effect of berberine is comparable to that of metformin."
 

Am not sure if that is the same trial I found as I seem to remember there were more people in it. I have looked at your link and also at another that used 1mg fruit twice a day https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4036375/ Here is one I found in rats https://innovareacademics.in/journal/ijpps/Vol3Issue1/1075.pdf. The one where I found the dosage is at
http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2439-berberine-is-superior-to-metformin

I am still called prediabetic although it may be insulin resistance (who knows!!) but am getting to the stage where they will want to prescribe metformin which is why I am constantly on the look out for alternatives. My main problem now is fasting levels between 6.3 and 7.2 This started after I was in enormous pain last February with a shoulder impingement. Am not in pain now although have not got full movement back in my shoulder but these levels have not returned to the less than 6 levels I had before. I have ordered 120 capsules from ebay but then realised that wouldn't be enough for 3 months. Have decided to try 2 a day so these will last 2 months and since I am prediabetic maybe these will kick in.
 
Ricky said:
I am still called prediabetic although it may be insulin resistance (who knows!!) but am getting to the stage where they will want to prescribe metformin which is why I am constantly on the look out for alternatives.
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Two tests that will help you know what your present state is, are the c-peptide test which you show how much insulin your pancreas is producing. Bare in mind that it doesn't show Beta cell health because you can have normal levels of insulin production with reduced beta cell mass. Hopefully my understanding is correct, I've been looking at how to measure beta cell mass without much joy. There is also a test for insulin resistance which is basically a number. One is perfect, ie no resistance where as above one represents degrees of resistance. I self funded for both tests which I've now had three times. My insulin production stays in the normal range but my resistance has gone from 1.7 to 2.4 and back to 1.7. No idea why?

I have been interested in Berberine for some years now and found it not to be as effective as I had hoped. That could easily be because I wasn't taking enough, even low doses of Metformin are less effective. I did buy another bottle of 120 tablets but it sort of fell by the wayside mainly because the bottle was put away somewhere and I completely forgot about it. It has resurfaced and I will try 3 X 500 mgs a day. I'm curious about the effectiveness of Metformin, it's supposed to stop the liver from putting glucise into the blood. I hadn't noticed much of a change in my Dawn Phenomena, so who knows.
 

Very useful info re the IR tests. I see the diabetic nurse in a couple of weeks and she is insisting this time on a fasting test so will ask her about it. I am not and never have been terribly overweight in real terms. I am in relationship to my height but because I work out so much I am very muscular. If the medical profession dare make a comment I just say that I don't call a UK size 12 overweight!! All our family are Type 2, my skinny father's generation, my generation (skinny sister) and even one of my sister's children in his 20's. I'm the only one who has been able to hold off the meds on diet and exercise and would like to continue this.
 
Ricky said:
I see the diabetic nurse in a couple of weeks and she is insisting this time on a fasting test so will ask her about it.
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I'll be interested in what she says. I only paid for my tests because after 4 years happily eating less than 50gms carbohydrate and having HbA1cs in the mid 40s, it suddenly went all over the place and my GP was all for prescribing Gliclazide again (was able to stop after low carb). I also invested in a Freestyle Libre so that now when I go to my GP, we have what I'd call a full picture. Previously they were making certain assumptions, but now we know and I'm presently just taking Metformin.
 
 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/

I think this thread is refering to this study. It seems to me the subjects in the study started with really high fgl like 14mmol and ended with 9pluss mmol on average. It is hard to predict the effect of berberine on a prediabetic and early T2. Also, the effect if any should kick in almost instantly, there is no building up period like the need for 13 weeks of continuous supplementation.
 
Ricky said:
I see the diabetic nurse in a couple of weeks and she is insisting this time on a fasting test so will ask her about it
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I'd be amazed if you can get an IR test with the NHS. If however you do manage please let us know.
 
Berberine isn't regulated in the same way as Metformin, although it acts in a very similar manner.

I looked into it and used it briefly a few years ago, when I wanted to see if it reduced my insulin resistance and my lovely doctor wouldn't prescribe me Metformin. I didn't take it for long because I found no discernable impact.

It is also very difficult to find a reliable source. Berberine can be found in a number of different herbs, and sold as Berberine. However, when you look at the ingredients in the capsule, you will often find the powdered herb is listed and not the Berberine - making it impossible to know how much active ingredient is contained in the capsule.

Very unreliable and misleading.

It can also cause exactly the same digestive discomfort as Metformin may - but without the close regulation that approved drugs have, so you will never know if your digestive discomfort from one brand/dose is going to happen consistently, or whether endlessly trying different brands will lead you to one that doesn't upset the tum. And if you are happy with that, you will never know if that is because the capsule contains less of the active ingredient and is therefore an utter waste of money...
 
What you say makes sense. All I know is that I have ordered 500mg capsules of the Berberis A. herb. I will have to see how it goes.
 
About time I did an update. Not long after I researched the Berberis A I found another research paper this time for an Indian herb called Amla. Now I have been taking Amla 1/4 teaspoon once a day as I reckon I am prediabetic (just!!) and my fasting numbers have come down from average 6.8 (sometimes in the 7's) to 5.8 (sometimes 5,4!!) . Now I reckon that is significant but I am not due for another HbA1c for another 4 weeks as they wanted me to test after 3 months from my last test. See this video https://nutritionfacts.org/video/amla-versus-diabetes/ This will save you reading the full research report as I did initially.
 
Thank you for this update. Your numbers look very good.
Since coming off insulin my HB1aC is between 42 and 44 - even though I am on a strict 20g carbs a day. My DN says this is fine and too low for metformin so I am interested in trying something natural that is safe. My goal is to have an HB1aC of 37.

I trialled the berberine - which didn't work so I discontinued it. Tried Ceylon cinnamon which doesn't work either but I absolutely love the taste and have continued using it and add it to my ground flaxseeds and kefir and yoghurt breakfast.

Which brand of Amla are you using? I have looked it up on Amazon and couldn't decide which one to order. Also I wondered what it tasted like. I only ask because I tried Spirulina for its health benefits and it was beyond awful. I had to throw the whole pack away.
 
I am currently using https://www.amazon.co.uk/Organic-Go...F8&qid=1541168492&sr=8-6&keywords=amla+powder and nearing the end of my first pack so have ordered another . However I am about to buy https://www.amazon.co.uk/Organic-Am...F8&qid=1541168492&sr=8-3&keywords=amla+powder to take to my sister who lives abroad.

Thank you for saying that the Berberine didn't work for you so I won't bother buying anymore Berberis Aristica from ebay . As I said I am taking both at the moment and my research did seem to say that it takes 3 months of the Berberis A. to kick in and I have probably been taking it that long.

The test really is when I get my next HbA1c results which I can't get done for another month. The last 2 fasting readings were 6.4 (boo) but still better than the high 6's and 7's I was getting. It doesn't help that I snack before bed - I must stop this!!!!
 
Thank you for this information. Have ordered the Amla from Amazon and am looking forward to trialling it. Although Berberine didn't work for me - it could be working for you - especially as your blood sugars have improved.
 
Krystyna23040 said:
Thank you for this information. Have ordered the Amla from Amazon and am looking forward to trialling it. Although Berberine didn't work for me - it could be working for you - especially as your blood sugars have improved.
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Sorry I forgot to tell you about the taste. It is not green and disgusting like spirulina and Moringa - which I mix in with my daily Matcha green tea!! It is sour and the more water you add with it the better. I put my large 1/4 teaspoon in a tumbler add a little water and mix to a paste then I add more water up to the top and drinking the refreshing liquid down. Keep stirring because if you are left with a bit at the bottom it can be quite acrid and after that you do need a bite from a diabetic friendly quest protein bar or a sugar free Ricola or Wethers Original sweet!! You can also add sweetener to it as that wouldn't do any harm but I don't like sweet things anyway. Since Diabetes is inherited from my Dad's skinny family I wasn't brought up to have sugar . My sister is like a rake as well. She is on metformin but has always cheated re diet. Her son got it in his early 20's and chose to go on Insulin rather than lose his beer and chips - I make no comment!! My kids are in their 40's and so far so good but get tested regularly. (Fasting number today was 6.0 but I probably took half a teaspoon yesterday)
 
I think I should be OK with it because - since going low carb - I quite like sour and tart and absolutely hate sweet tasting food now. So as long as it doesn't taste like Spirulina I should be OK. I liked your description of Spirulina's taste as 'green and disgusting' which describes it very well. I agree that Moringa is the same and that ended in the bin also. Have just started taking Moringa in tablet form and have noticed a small drop in sugars.

Very interesting that your diabetes is inherited from your Dads skinny family. I wonder if those of us who end up with T2 are genetically predisposed to developing diabetes. I have a very good friend who weighs 15 stone and she has done so for all her adult life. Yet her blood sugars are completely non-diabetic.
 
Genetically predisposed yes!! I was told that it was only because of my good eating habits and exercise I didn't get diabetes until I was in my 50's. It happened after I returned from 2 weeks working in India, living in 4 * hotel with buffet help yourself meals and I went mad- especially with all the wonderful fruit!! In the following weeks I had a dry mouth at night with my tongue sticking to the roof of my mouth. I had to go to the bathroom numerous times in the night and was thirsty and I realised I needed a blood test . My HbA1c was 6.8 so I went on a low carb/low GI diet and for the next few years it was in the 5's. It is only recently it has started the climb and there isn't much more I can do diet wise other than fasts and with the nightly classes at the gym I do no way could I do that.
My husband is well overweight - probably 18 stones and his diet is disgusting. Some days he eats total carbs - toast and more toast and meat pies and sweet ones. He eats 6 sweet biscuits at a time and does no aerobic exercise but does walk more he did
In 2016 his HbA1C was 4.9!!! Just checked his last one this year and it was 39 = 5.7 so it is going up!!! No diabetes in his family!!
 
Just to say I have started a new pack of powdered Amla from the same supplier and firstly it is a darker powder than my last lot and nowhere near as sour and acrid so I can put less water with it!!
 
Ricky said:
Just to say I have started a new pack of powdered Amla from the same supplier and firstly it is a darker powder than my last lot and nowhere near as sour and acrid so I can put less water with it!!
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Just to say thank you for mentioning Amla on this forum. I keep to maximum 20g carbs, intermittent fasting and exercise which controls the blood sugar levels - but not quite as perfectly as I would like. Since literally the first day I tried it my fasting BS dropped from mainly 6s to mainly 5s and my 2 hours after meals dropped from mainly in the 7s and an occasional 8 to mainly in the 6s and a very rare 7.

So although not a huge drop - hopefully it will be enough to drop my HB1aC from between 42 and 44 to maybe 39. My goal is between 37 and 39.

There are some interesting side effects from using Amla. After a few days I noticed that I had more energy and felt less tired and less stressed. This is my busy time of year at work and had been feeling overwhelmed by it all but now I am coping easily. Also - I have problems with glare both from the sun and from headlights but have found, day by day, I am less troubled by it.

What is this stuff - is it magic dust? More likely it is supplying something l am missing in my diet - what it is is anyone's guess.

The other plus is that I love the taste when I mix it with my kefir and inulin twice a day.

I think because my body was so damaged by diabetes (I had an HB1aC of 125 at diagnosis) my pancreas does need a little bit of extra help.

Things I have tried but don't work for me are:

Bitter melon
Gymnema sylvestre
Cinnamon - although I use it every day as I love the taste
Apple cider vinegar - although I now use it to extract more minerals from bones when I make bone broth.
Berberis

I do take moringa capsules for my eyes as they contain zeaxanthin and lutien.
 
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