Berstien and Think Like A Pancreas

[jopar]

These two books must be the two most reccomended books concerning diabetic control

I've already had the Think Like A Pancreas and have found it to be very usefull book to add to my 'tool box' of kit and inforamtion to aid my diabetic control...

But I had no idea about what Berstien book was about with the exception that it was based on a restricted carbs to control diabetes....

so I decided that I would research his work and as much as his book as I could without having to buy it... Which has gone pretty well and yes I have found some interesting stuff indeed.... And yes in many ways it did make sense in what he was saying....

But having been a diabetic long enough, that when it comes to reading something in a book about controlling it seems is always based on the formula of 2+2+2=6 and sounds so simple, but in reality the formula end up being sometimes 2+2+2=8, and then on other days 2+2+2=4 and then you get the times when 2+2+2=97998272475 and what the hell happened there, and if you are very lucky you can get 2+2+2=6 yeppee but with verying frquentices....

I've been around diabetic forums for a while now, so have good knowledge of of the types of problems that people have with control and question they ask...

I saw that on Berstien web site that it now has a forum that you can join, so I did became a member my first thoughts were it would be a case diabetics who were having a lovely time of it all no problems with there control all having a natter, and newbies comeing and asking questions....

So was surprsied that I didn't quite get what I expected to see... Even those that followed Berstien advice and kept to his suggested carb amount and dietary advice still had the same on going day to day problems that I have experienced and needed help and suggestion into how they had found the solution?

My assumption of my research suggest to me that both books have a different way at looking at how to control carbs, one of no restrictions and the other restricted, but each book not being able to give the total answer to control, but guidence that we the diabetic, need to research all areas of control be it low carbing through to high carbs, and work out what is the best method from both camps that suite us as individuals....

We need to have the information from all, even the humble dietitian all HP etc.... What we need to learn is how to look at data from what ever source, and learn how if it is going to or not going to or even how it may be adapted to suit our needs...And not to expect that some-one is going to give us a complete answer and solution in 500 pages....

 

[catherinecherub]

Well said Jopar,
I also looked at the Bernstein forum and, like you, I thought every member would be sailing along happily as it certainly comes across from a minority on this forum that Bernstein is the only way to go for diabetics to acheive maximum control.
We are all different and our bodies respond to diet differently. Genetics, emotions, disabilities and coping mechanisms all play a part and no one size fits all.
We all need advice or we wouldn't be here but I will say again that no one size fits all and day to day challenges have a bearing on our readings.

 

[graham64]

Well said Jopar,
I also looked at the Bernstein forum and, like you, I thought every member would be sailing along happily as it certainly comes across from a minority on this forum that Bernstein is the only way to go for diabetics to acheive maximum control.
We are all different and our bodies respond to diet differently. Genetics, emotions, disabilities and coping mechanisms all play a part and no one size fits all.
We all need advice or we wouldn't be here but I will say again that no one size fits all and day to day challenges have a bearing on our readings.

Hi Catherine,
While I don’t wish to get embroiled in a debate about the merits of Dr Bernstein, you have your opinions and I have mine and we’ll leave it at that. I would just like to comment on your “one size fits all” statement, yes we all need to adapt our diets to suit our individual needs, the problem is most of the NHS dietary information is based on a “one size fits all” policy, I know from my own experience at my surgery and later on the Desmonds course that individual needs are not catered for. Though not having any problems with my weight, my treatment was the same as that dished out to patients who were seriously overweight. If it wasn’t for the alternative viewpoints that can be found by accessing the web, I would have blindly followed the NHS advice and suffered the consequences. Since joining this forum and taking the advice offered I have experienced a vast improvement in all aspects of my general health, my low energy levels, eyesight troubles, lack of sleep, and depression are all behind me now.

Finally my heart goes out to the Diabetics who don’t have internet access, the elderly the uneducated, and the people who accept their HPs advice as the only way to treat their condition, the few who do get a referral to a good Dietitian can count themselves lucky.

Regards Graham

 

[catherinecherub]

Hello Graham,
I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet. Like you I want the best for every diabetic. My observation of the Bernstein forum came as a surprise to me because I was of the opinion that it was foolproof. I gained that view by reading some of the posts on these forums.
The last thing I want is to get into an arguement ,it solves nothing.
Hope that clarifies things for you.
Regards, Catherine.

 

[hanadr]

Getting the Bernstein book a couple of years ago, opened my eyes to a different route from the one I'd been given by the doctors and which wasn't working for me. I was gaining weight steadily and the doctors just weren't bothered. Who wants to weigh 107 kg? In fact who wants to weigh the 89 I now weigh?
I had tried all the "Healthy Eating and exercise that I'd been offered. In fact I didn't begin to lose until I reduced my carbs.
I have a biology training and understand metabolism fairly well. Bernstein opened my eyes to the possibility of eating in a way that doesn't make my condition worse, or increase my need for medication. I had tried the GI diet, but I need to be much tighter on diet then that. My other inspiration was David Mendosa, who has been diabetic for quite a while and managed to get lighter and off medication. He had Byetta to help. I can't imagine that I could ever get it, even as a start. Whe I first read Bernstein, I thought him too extreme, now I'm sure he's right. After all even if his followers still sometimes need help, His own example is a shining light.

 

[jopar]

I have several different books in my diabetic collection.... Most have a common theme concening the control part of diabetes, how to work our factors of control... From Bersien to Walsh the medical part is the same... But the main difference being how they precieve 'carbs' and how one should or shouldn't use them in the control theme....

In one, they sort of leave the carb content to the diabetic, you choose your carb source and this is way to counteract it's effect of the BG level both in type and quantity... The other says well this is the type and max amount of carbs you should be having and this is how you deal with it!

Even with saying that Berstien has takening some of his theory from what Walsh depicts... that the higher the carb content of a meal = high dose of insulin to counteract the effect the higher the dose of insulin the more unperdictable the result becomes... So Walsh suggests work arounds to get a better result with how and when to inject the insulin, but Berstiens gone for a simplier work around that of reducing the carbs amount to gain a more predictacle outcome...

So for me I use the inforamtion from both... I tend at times to use Walsh theory with how I deliver my insulin to best effect, but there again there is some of the Berstien theory as well, as I tend not to have high carb meals, and have my max of carbs and types of carbs that I eat partly due to avoiding the unpertictablity of the high insulin dose, and either restict or forego carbs that cause the most problems for me...

As for what the NSH/DUK say about diets etc, I think the point they are coming from, is one of a diet that is balanced and should incorparate all the nutrients that maintains a healthy body without having to take suppliments of different sorts... As I have noticed that in the ideaology of very low carbing that one does need to keep a close eye of some of the nuritents that are contained in certain foods and may not be avaiable or become inbalanced which in many respects Berstien is good at pointing out and giving you the work around on these....

Which ever way that you prefer at the end of the day, the same problems are thrown up, and others can suggest many ways of combating the problem in hand, some will work and others won't.

 

[hanadr]

Bernstein has been recommending his diet for about 20 years and following it himself for far longer. He didn't get it from someone else.
As to what constitues a healthy diet
DUK and The NHS recommend up to 1/3 of the plate covered in starchy foods. We can only digest starch AFTER it's been cooked or processed. It plays no part in a healthy natural diet. The small amount of carb in green vegetables is all we can handle. Although Taubes has written about this,( I hesitate to mention another book) I come from the point of teaching biology and knowing that if you want to demonstrate digestion of starch by Amylase, You MUST cook the starch before adding the enzyme, or nothing happens.
All the glucose we need can be made in our own bodies by gluconeogenesis. We don't need to eat any at all. We won't develop deficiencies of any important nutrients if we cut starchy foods. Ally 555 used to warn us that we would, but could never tell us which. If you also eat no meat, you could become deficient in some B vitamins.
Almost nothing is actually Known about what constitutes a balanced healthy diet for humans, unlike lab rats. but we listen to what people tell us, when they have no evidence, because pretty much NO investigation has ever been done.
It has been shown that we can live on nothing but fatty meat, pretty much indefinitely.
A few studies have been dome with diabetics and overweight people. As far as I can find, those on lower carbs do best in the long term. Not necessarily losing most weight, but having best blood chemistry.
After all Fois Gras is made by stuffing grain down the gullets of poor geese and best beef is fattened on grain too. the grain triggers the insulin response

 

[Trinkwasser]

Almost nothing is actually Known about what constitutes a balanced healthy diet for humans, unlike lab rats. but we listen to what people tell us, when they have no evidence, because pretty much NO investigation has ever been done.

This guy probably comes closest

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/

Strangely many Type 1s find Bernstein too ascetic, he seems to have more of a following among Type 2s.

I control my carbs but to a higher level, I need a certain amount to adjust my BG manually because the automatic system no longer does it for me. He has a mass of information though even if you choose not to follow what worked for him.