Type 2 Best time to test for ketones

[Swiggy]

I have been firmly sticking to lchf since the end of January but my fbg hasn't dropped. I started testing before and after meals and I am usually back to within .3 mmol of my pre meal level after two hours.
I have completely cut out all the obvious carbs - bread, rice, pasta, fruit etc. I don't have a sweet tooth so I don't eat cake, biscuits, sweets or drink fizzy drinks.
I have been checking labels and weighing out portions and I am confident that I have only gone above 40g of carbohydrate on fewer than six days since starting lchf and I haven't been eating huge quantities of protein.
I feel great. I haven't been hungry and I feel satisfied after eating small meals. After gaining five pounds since starting I decided that I was embracing cream too enthusiastically and cut back to 100ml a day and I am happy to report a two pound loss this week.
Apologies for the amount of background but I have two questions.
Can you be burning fat and still have blood glucose levels in the sevens and eights?
What's the best time to check urine for ketones? I have bought some Bayer Ketostix which are due to be delivered today.

 

[GrantGam]

LCHF won't immediately eradicate higher than ideal fasting BG levels. Although you are LCHF, your body will still be converting protein into glucose; a process known as gluconeogenesis. The situation manifests itself in a similar fashion for a lot of T1's, where we still need insulin for meals that don't contain carbs but do contain protein.

Insulin resistance and dawn phenomenon are a further two factors which will increase your fasting BG. Insulin resistance tends to improve with weight loss and increased activity levels. Dawn phenomenon however is more or less a permanent battle that many diabetics have to deal with...

In terms of when to test your ketones, I wouldn't have thought it would matter much. If you are aiming for a state of permanent ketosis then any time of day should be fine in my opinion.

 

[BrianTheElder]

I have been firmly sticking to lchf since the end of January but my fbg hasn't dropped. I started testing before and after meals and I am usually back to within .3 mmol of my pre meal level after two hours.
I have completely cut out all the obvious carbs - bread, rice, pasta, fruit etc. I don't have a sweet tooth so I don't eat cake, biscuits, sweets or drink fizzy drinks.
I have been checking labels and weighing out portions and I am confident that I have only gone above 40g of carbohydrate on fewer than six days since starting lchf and I haven't been eating huge quantities of protein.
I feel great. I haven't been hungry and I feel satisfied after eating small meals. After gaining five pounds since starting I decided that I was embracing cream too enthusiastically and cut back to 100ml a day and I am happy to report a two pound loss this week.
Apologies for the amount of background but I have two questions.
Can you be burning fat and still have blood glucose levels in the sevens and eights?
What's the best time to check urine for ketones? I have bought some Bayer Ketostix which are due to be delivered today.

Hi @Swiggy My answers are:

1. I think proteins are the key, if you eat a lot, then gluconeogenesis will operate and that will increase your blood glucose. So I limit my proteins to 0.8g/kg of target body weight. However, as @GrantGam says, there are many other factors involved. For me, though I seem to be particularly susceptible to increased bs and weight if I eat more protein.
2. I don't think it matters much, but I test at 21:30 every night, because that's definitely 2 hours after my last food of the day and it allows me to set an alarm on my computer so I don't forget. I also think it's a good idea with any series of readings to keep variables under control as much as possible. I always weigh and test my fasting bs at the same time each day.

Hope that helps.

 

[Swiggy]

LCHF won't immediately eradicate higher than ideal fasting BG levels. Although you are LCHF, your body will still be converting protein into glucose; a process known as gluconeogenesis. The situation manifests itself in a similar fashion for a lot of T1's, where we still need insulin for meals that don't contain carbs but do contain protein.

Insulin resistance and dawn phenomenon are a further two factors which will increase your fasting BG. Insulin resistance tends to improve with weight loss and increased activity levels. Dawn phenomenon however is more or less a permanent battle that many diabetics have to deal with...

In terms of when to test your ketones, I wouldn't have thought it would matter much. If you are aiming for a state of permanent ketosis then any time of day should be fine in my opinion.

Thanks @GrantGam. I thought I must be doing something wrong when my fbg didn't go down after more than a month. I am sure that I will be able to stick with low carb long term and hope that my levels will improve over time. The postie has been and nothing for me so I will just have to be patient.

 

[Swiggy]

Hi @Swiggy My answers are:

1. I think proteins are the key, if you eat a lot, then gluconeogenesis will operate and that will increase your blood glucose. So I limit my proteins to 0.8g/kg of target body weight. However, as @GrantGam says, there are many other factors involved. For me, though I seem to be particularly susceptible to increased bs and weight if I eat more protein.
2. I don't think it matters much, but I test at 21:30 every night, because that's definitely 2 hours after my last food of the day and it allows me to set an alarm on my computer so I don't forget. I also think it's a good idea with any series of readings to keep variables under control as much as possible. I always weigh and test my fasting bs at the same time each day.

Hope that helps.

Ooh @BrianTheElder you have just identified a huge error in my approach. I have been weighing my protein but I was using my actual weight and not my target weight which means that I am eating at least 30g too much. That will make a big difference won't it?

 

[GrantGam]

I think the ketone urine testing strips have a fairly hefty time delay too. Meaning that you may be measuring ketones from hours earlier.

Basically, I'd test at a time that suits you - and for no other reason

 

[BrianTheElder]

Ooh @BrianTheElder you have just identified a huge error in my approach. I have been weighing my protein but I was using my actual weight and not my target weight which means that I am eating at least 30g too much. That will make a big difference won't it?

Hi. All I can say is, if I ate 30g extra protein it would make a big difference. But everyone is different. One thing is that some people think exceeding the protein you eat may be harmful, again a personal choice. You certainly need a minimum because protein is used by the body for repair and growth.
I use a ketone meter, but the strips are expensive. The cheapest I have found are "On-Call" ketone and glucose meter and strips, but even then the ketone strips are about 80p each. The urine strips are a good idea to start with, but aren't particularly accurate and the further you progress with ketosis, the less indicative they become.

 

[Swiggy]

Hi. All I can say is, if I ate 30g extra protein it would make a big difference. But everyone is different. One thing is that some people think exceeding the protein you eat may be harmful, again a personal choice. You certainly need a minimum because protein is used by the body for repair and growth.
I use a ketone meter, but the strips are expensive. The cheapest I have found are "On-Call" ketone and glucose meter and strips, but even then the ketone strips are about 80p each. The urine strips are a good idea to start with, but aren't particularly accurate and the further you progress with ketosis, the less indicative they become.

Thanks @BrianTheElder I have a feeling my enthusiasm for urine testing may prove to be short lived. As long as my sugar levels come down and I lose some weight I will be happy.

 

[BrianTheElder]

Thanks @BrianTheElder I have a feeling my enthusiasm for urine testing may prove to be short lived. As long as my sugar levels come down and I lose some weight I will be happy.

Hi @Swiggy Those are my goals as well and I'm sure it will go well for you. Some of my advice was influenced by my own diet which is ketogenic, but a LCHF diet with 40g +/- of carbs a day is fine for most people.

 

[dipsydo]

I know when started low carb I was somewhat over enthusiastic with the protein and had too low fat so did not work too well .
If cutting down a bit on protein does not work then looking at the hours you eat may be a thought .What helped me was not eating after 5 pm and having a 16:8 pattern of eating ( no food for 16 hours a couple of meals and no snacking in the 8 ).. you can move the 8 hours you want to eat to suit so for example if you want to eat at 8 pm then you skip breakfast . This for me brought down BS to 5s and 6s with the only odd 7's and 8 . Obviously if you are taking meds which need to be taken with food then this may not suit and it is highly personal whether fasting suits your life style.

 

[Swiggy]

Thanks @dipsydo, I think that I might give this a try. I don't take any meds and I think this might fit in with my work routine.

 

[Resurgam]

I am only a few months from diagnosis, and have proven that the Human body is not a machine.
First I saw that eating the same foods does not always produce the same BG levels, but that usually the numbers fall little by little as the weeks pass - except for the days when they don't.
They I found that some days I longed for different foods - sometimes fish, sometimes beef, sometimes anything sweet. Eating anything else did not help at all, so I ate what I wanted, and it seems to sort out the problem.
Some days I did not want to eat - so I didn't. I don't have any sort of routine or rule to stick to.
Lastly, I eat the fat which comes with the meat I cook - except for bacon, if it cooks out it is thrown away. I have fat from goose, beef, lamb - so I cook with it. I do throw away the used fat, don't endlessly reuse, I wipe out the cast iron frying pans and then put them over the gas flame to burn off any residue. They are like glass, and look like non stick coated - which I suppose they are, in a way.