Beta cell failure in T2

@Tannith the human body isn’t an isolated system. Calories do of course matter as a measure of total input energy but equally as important is what the body does with them once you’ve eaten them. Your body is not a steam engine. It has incredibly complex hormonal and chemical regulatory systems that control the use and partitioning of energy, even down to the wasting of heat if necessary.

Tannith said:

So you are claiming that calories from carbohydrates can make you fat, but calories from fat (& protein) don't??? I can't understand how anyone can still believe that in 2021!
"The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics

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carbs in type 2 diabetics trigger an insulin response, causing them to be stored instead of used. This happens to a lesser degree with proteins for some people. You keep ignoring the part that being a type 2 diabetic, or pre diabetic, or a person with a response which can be triggered, has to play in all of this. People without the trigger mechanism dont become type 2 diabetics as their response doesnt trigger the same insulin activity.

You keep doing the equivalent of saying that peanuts, of themselves, cannot trigger and allergic reaction - the reality is that for people with the allergy trigger, they can cause an allergic reaction.

You are not comparing what happens to those with the diabetic trigger in their response to eating carbs, and those without the trigger. You are saying they are all responding the same, in the face of evidence to the contrary.

We wouldnt be type 2, type 2 wouldnt exist as a condition, without the fault/difference in insulin responses compared to others of the human race.

Edited to correct a spelling mistake

Jim Lahey said:

For sure some of it does, but if that’s all there is to it then why does blood glucose rise up to three times higher than that in some people even if they haven’t eaten for two days? And why is the lens of the eye affected?

EDIT: Also, if glucose lives exclusively in the blood then why do type 2 who have been using hardcore insulin therapy for decades with good blood glucose control still suffer bad future outcomes with blindness and loss of limbs, organ failure etc?

Anyway this is probably drifting off topic now…

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I agree this is off topic. However, I am interested in the question of the lens of the eye being affected and I have started a thread about that.

Tannith said:

I think you are confusing the Hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp technique which was NOT used in the Direct trial,- and is as you say normally used to measure insulin resistance- with the Hyperglycemic clamp technique. The latter is the one which WAS used in the DIRECT trial and is used to measure insulin secretion over time. You can see if you look at the extract I quoted that the measurements are taken over time, ie per minute. “ nmol/min/m2”

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Looking at the Report for Counterpoint he used isoglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamps. I can find no mention of clamps being used in DirECT. Do you have a link to that data?

Tannith said:

of an isolated system

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Shame the human body is not an isolated system eh?

The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases - this thread is a good example.

Mr_Pot said:

The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases - this thread is a good example.

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Can you explain please

Mr_Pot said:

The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy always increases - this thread is a good example.

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And on those wise words the thread will now be closed, as it's going partly in circles and partly in all directions.