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BG higher than expected - after "dry" period

LittleGreyCat

Well-Known Member
Retired Moderator
Messages
4,433
Location
Suffolk, UK
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Diet drinks - the artificial sweeteners taste vile.
Having to forswear foods I have loved all my life.
Trying to find low carb meals when eating out.
After my overly documented experiment with no alcohol for a bit I've resumed booze (but not to excess).

My BG is running about one whole number higher than expected for no very obvious reason.

Latest example:

2/8 - fasting reading 7.0
3/8 - fasting reading 7.6
3/8 - pre bed reading 6.3 (ate a steak with leaves and cherry tomatoes at 16:00 then 90 minutes Yoga starting 19:45)
4/8 - fasting reading 6.9 (had a shot of single malt before bed but no other food since 16:00)
4/8 - 11:00 7.5 (had coffee with butter and splash of skim because run out of cream)

So my BG is rising over night and also rising after nothing more than butter in my coffee. However I am losing weight. I put weight on when off the booze.

The classic explanation for those numbers when not loading in the carbs is a liver dump. However I thought that after all that LCHF my liver wouldn't really have much left to dump.

Scrabbling for explanations, but one might be that when I stopped the alcohol my liver had more time for gluconeogenesis and took the opportunity to top up my glucose stores. Now I am back on the sauce and losing weight, perhaps the extra glucose is slowly coming back out. Much like people who start on LCHF or a fast and see their numbers go up in the short term.

We have all seen people, especially newly diagnosed, posting here in a panic because they aren't eating anything but their BG isn't coming down and is often going up.

Two things I think I can do:

(1) Give it another couple of days and see if my numbers stabilise.

(2) Up my exercise levels in the short time to burn out any stored glucose floating around in my tissues.

If that doesn't work, I'm baffled.

Hopefully the moral won't be not to give up booze because doing so messes up your BG control!
 
I've been low carbing for two years and I still get liver dumps every morning and occasionally in the late afternoon if I've been fasting. I did read somewhere (no idea where) that if the liver does a dump then it is topped up by the next meal. I suppose it's only doing it's job but it's a complete PITA as it sucks up my BG for the entire day. :(

Just recently the only day I haven't had a liver dump was the second or third day of my zero carb experiment (which I won't be repeating)!
 
The classic explanation for those numbers when not loading in the carbs is a liver dump. However I thought that after all that LCHF my liver wouldn't really have much left to dump.

I think that if you have insulin resistance your liver will fill up again and keep topping up, whether on low carb or not. A continuous vicious circle.
 
I think that if you have insulin resistance your liver will fill up again and keep topping up, whether on low carb or not. A continuous vicious circle.

Odd you should mention that... I've been thinking about insulin resistance this morning. I know that IR is definitely my problem (always has been) but I have no idea how to get rid of it I try all sorts of different dietary alterations and my body just adjusts within a day or two. I just can't get rid of it. Any suggestions?
 
Odd you should mention that... I've been thinking about insulin resistance this morning. I know that IR is definitely my problem (always has been) but I have no idea how to get rid of it I try all sorts of different dietary alterations and my body just adjusts within a day or two. I just can't get rid of it. Any suggestions?

I'm chewing this one over as well.

There is a body of evidence that seems to support IR being intimately tied into a fatty liver.

To prove/disprove would need checks on the state of the liver, possibly a scan, and then some action such as a Newcastle Diet to try and blitz that damned liver into submission.

Edit: I am reasonably scrawny with most of my muscles and tendons in my arms and legs pretty visible, so no major subcutaneous fat there.

However my waist seems to be stubbornly staying at 36" so perhaps I am one of those who preserves fat around and in the major organs at the expense of the rest of the body. One thing on my list for investigation. My medical team is just going to LOVE my next check up.
 
Odd you should mention that... I've been thinking about insulin resistance this morning. I know that IR is definitely my problem (always has been) but I have no idea how to get rid of it I try all sorts of different dietary alterations and my body just adjusts within a day or two. I just can't get rid of it. Any suggestions?

I'm chewing this one over as well.

I think most of us are chewing on that one. Most of the things I've read apply mainly to the obese/overweight, which I'm not. The ND and similar very low calorie diets are not an option, and probably neither is regular fasting for longer periods than 18 hours. It is known that insulin resistance is exacerbated by excess insulin production, so for those with IR there is a need to keep insulin production down. The problem is for most of us, we have no idea how much insulin we produce!
 
Is this a one-off experience?
I find the problem with understanding diabetes and what impacts our BG is that there are so many things.
Sure, the rise may well be due to the alcohol (somehow) but it may also be due to illness, stress, weather, what you ate last night, how much exercise you have done recently, even different soap, ...
I look for trends rather than one off anomalies to make adjustments to my diabetes management for this reason.
 
If I don't maintain an 80% fat diet I become more IR, or a thin least require more insulin with meals and often corrections in between. I have to keep protein portions small and keep at least hours between them. The .8-1g per kg lean mass works well for me. I have no protein at bf but I have some at noon, 3 and 6:30. I make a regular lunch with protein and divide it into two small meals eaten at noon and 3. If I have more than 2-3 oz protein at dinner I definitely have a higher fasting.

I still get a dump around 6 am. Testing a lot during the night this week.
5:15 80
6:15 100 took half unit
8 am 95.
So this small jab works after 6 am but not sure I'm up for setting an alarm.
Hubby gets up then so that might work

But I'm type 1
If I were type two I'd try the smaller protein dinner. It's weird as that's normally the largest meal but it's worth a shot?
 
@LittleGreyCat My suggestion would be to do a few days of testing earlier than 11:00, probably about 07:00. This will show when your gluconeogenesis is initiating, and whether an 'in bed' at bedtime very small snack would help.
 
Mine LOVES to do that
Mine too - think it just gets bored around 4.30 am so decides to mess with me! Im sure it would have been really really useful in ensuring my survival several hundred thousand years ago but Not nowadays - message to liver - get with the times!
 
@LittleGreyCat My suggestion would be to do a few days of testing earlier than 11:00, probably about 07:00. This will show when your gluconeogenesis is initiating, and whether an 'in bed' at bedtime very small snack would help.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I should perhaps mention that the "fasting" tests in the list are first thing in the morning.
The 11:00 was an extra one after a walk and changing the battery in my meter.:)
 
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