BG numbers- what are the ranges that you aim for?

Blood glucose targets to be honest are a personal choice... I run of the opinion that the 'average' normal person has blood glucose in the range of 3.5 mmol/l - 5.5 mmol/l 99% of the time and thus maintaining this level would most reduce the impact of diabetes..

Clearly maintaining such tight control presents issue in T1 and T2 and thus a balance between blood glucose, lifestyle and health-risk (specifically hypo's in insulin controlled diabetics) must be considered.

My personal opinion is that as a T1 or insulin controlled T2 you should be aiming for sub 7.8 mmol/l @ 2 hours post meal... most the research papers I have read agree that sustained blood glucose levels in excess of 7.8 mmol/l damage the body and cause complications..

For non-insulin controlled (or other insulin inducing drugs) T2 i.e. those that maintain a level of pancreas function and don't run the risk of hypos I would argue there is a case for tighter 2 hour post meal numbers.. again from what I have read damage to the insulin producing beta cells starts with blood glucose levels over 5.5 mmol/l and therefore in order to keep you control and if your still reasonably young perhaps even improve your pancreatic function you are best to try not to go above this level all to often.

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice.. All I would say is that make sure when you make the choice you are well informed.

Sloan973 said:

But for those who only manage the mid 8 range, they should not be led to believe that they are at any greater risk than they would be with figures higher than the recommendations. Just a point for those to tend to be more anxious than others.
Eddie

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I am going to have to disagree somewhat... whilst we should encourage everyone to try and achieve the best blood glucose control that they can.. everyone should be aware of the risk that they run... fact of the matter is the higher your average blood glucose the higher your chance of complications..

My FBG today was 7.0, I had two gluten free crackers with egg mayo filler for breakfast, then I went swimming for an hour and tested after swimming and I was 5.6 - Only ever had a reading of 5.6 once before and this is the first time I've been swimming for 6 weeks or so ... so I was chuffed with that.

After swimming went for a Chinese buffet type meal, I ate only chicken wings, brocolli and green beans and some sliced beef in a weeny bit of curry sauce and I had a teeny meeny weeny wedge of strawberry cheesecake afterwards, barely a mouthful. Tested an hour after and I'm 9.7.

So is that a normal high for such a meal content? And should I be aiming at having that reduce to at least 7.8mmol/l 2 hours after?

After a meal how high is too high for our BS to go is what I'd like to know. Should I be concerned if it goes up to 9.7 so long as it comes down again within 2 hours? :think:

Often I go up after exercise that I am not used to. The post-exercise spike may happen during or shortly after. I suspect the cheese cake combined with this 'stress-effect' will have seen it rise. Your body will tell your liver *hey get cracking, we need more fuel* and that will last for a bit.

I would not want to see 9.7 really, but testing 1 hour after a meal where you have had sugar-stuff and then post exercise (after a longer break from that activity) could probably explain some of it. Normally the reason to test 2 hours after is it takes a little while for your system to start working on getting blood sugars down and the sugar from the cheese cake will hit your blood stream faster than say a slice of wholegrain bread would - thus the balance is off a bit more.

Concerned, no. Do it often, also not. Play around with a walk instead of swimming if you want the cake bite. Or skip the cake. Or delay the cake until your blood sugar begins to drop again post exercise. It's all really about getting to know your own body and it's quirks.

I do tend to tolerate carbs far better after longer walks than after say strength or sprint exercises. I am on insulin, but I can still see the effect in what I would need to inject and how well my body copes without spikes etc.

Happy testing and tampering

Hi everybody.
This subject has really opened the can of worms hasn't it? Let's be realistic. As type 2's there are only those of us who are lucky enough to be prescribed testing strips, or those able to afford to buy there own who can even use the BG testing methods to 'control' our levels. Even then, those levels ( I know because I have experimented) can change by the second or by each sequential reading, so nothing can be proved. All we can share for sure is our beliefs about our own readings, and the general consensus of understanding that the intake of carbs in high quantities,taken too frequently, will damage us. We all get that that I'm sure. Let us take time to consider those type 2's who can't test at all or so often or those who do test but have difficulty in the understanding or rationalisation of their figures. Sometimes I get the Impression that some people on here are trying to demonstrate how clever they are as much as how helpful they are trying to be. Perhaps myself included.
Eddie

Sloan973 said:

Hi everybody.
This subject has really opened the can of worms hasn't it? Let's be realistic. As type 2's there are only those of us who are lucky enough to be prescribed testing strips, or those able to afford to buy there own who can even use the BG testing methods to 'control' our levels. Even then, those levels ( I know because I have experimented) can change by the second or by each sequential reading, so nothing can be proved. All we can share for sure is our beliefs about our own readings, and the general consensus of understanding that the intake of carbs in high quantities,taken too frequently, will damage us. We all get that that I'm sure. Let us take time to consider those type 2's who can't test at all or so often or those who do test but have difficulty in the understanding or rationalisation of their figures. Sometimes I get the Impression that some people on here are trying to demonstrate how clever they are as much as how helpful they are trying to be. Perhaps myself included.
Eddie

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Surely that is the point? Each of us can only go by our experience? I can't comment of other people's readings, as they are not my own. Each of us will manage our condition in a way that suits us, and us alone.

My FBG are always in the 4's. I rarely test, as I have a set diet, and all random tests are always in the 4's. I actually can't remember the last time I had a 5 FBG.

My before meal figures are generally between high 4's and 5.5. Post meal figures range from 5.5 - 6.0. Very rarely, I will have a 6.2-6.3 but that really is very, very rare.

I ultra low carb, at less than 50g a day, but usually much lower than that, but I know my figures will be as above up to 50g, so I wouldn't dream of going higher. I have been under the weather the last few days and my appetite has been hit, so carbs have been in the teens, with 33g on Tuesday, but even being sick, my BG has remained stable [thankfully].

[edit to add] I get 50 test strips a month on prescription, I fund additional ones myself. (Yes Sloan, I am fortunate I am in a position to do that).

Defen
I totally understand your position on all levels. I do my best with my own figuresand targets ( which are less than 5.5 FBG and less than 7 two hours after a meal) I get 100 strips a month on prescription. I aim for no more than 75g of carbs per day-about 25 per meal average, with at least 20% coming from veg, salad or fruit. I am comfortable with that. If I have the odd post meal spike of 9 or so, I don't like it but neither do I worry it will lead to complications. I think we need to do our very best to take this disease seriously and to address it, but not to let it completely obsess our lives.

Sloan973 said:

Defen
I totally understand your position on all levels. I do my best with my own figuresand targets ( which are less than 5.5 FBG and less than 7 two hours after a meal) I get 100 strips a month on prescription. I aim for no more than 75g of carbs per day-about 25 per meal average, with at least 20% coming from veg, salad or fruit. I am comfortable with that. If I have the odd post meal spike of 9 or so, I don't like it but neither do I worry it will lead to complications. I think we need to do our very best to take this disease seriously and to address it, but not to let it completely obsess our lives.

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I can agree to a degree, I was on holiday and got a reading of 9. I ran around like a headless chicken, drinking loads of water and walking to bring it down, I was terrified. I do worry, and probably always will. It's almost a self preservation button within myself. I don't obsess as much as I used to, but it is a subject that does occupy a good amount of my time. Making sure meals are correct, medication is on time, supplements are researched and researched again. Looking at new data that will help. Oh yes, I spend a good amount of time, dealing with things that concern my condition. The day this stops, would be a day I panicked. It's all very personal, and so it should be. I want to live as long and happy a life as is possible, if that includes obsession, so be it.

I'm only 2 months or so into my diagnosis but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed - it's just that there is so much to learn about the condition that it takes a lot of time up. For the first few weeks I was hell bent on understanding what I could and couldn't eat, then I was hell bent on the change in shopping habits, clearing out my kitchen cupboards of anything unsuitable. After that phase, I got my head round the testing situation, morning/before/after meals etc. Such a lot to take in to start with. Now my shopping and diet is second nature to me, I can stop obsessing about it - and now I'm onto adding the exercise to it and monitoring how I am with that.

So yes, I think there HAS to be an element of obsession perhaps in the early days and I agree with Defren - it is all very personal and because it's a food related condition also we really do have to be organised about it.

And that's how I regard my own habits now - I'm not so much obsessed as on a huge learning curve which has to be got through fairly quickly so it probably would appear like obsession to anyone observing me. But at the same time, I'm not acting out of fear of what will happen if I don't sort my diet out. I don't feel afraid, I just feel "Thank God I've finally found out what the problem is and thank God I can actually get to grips with doing something about it." I don't want diabetes, but the fact that I have it means I have to find a way to live with it. And if that takes a few months of diabetes induced OCD - so be it.

GraceK said:

I'm only 2 months or so into my diagnosis but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed - it's just that there is so much to learn about the condition that it takes a lot of time up.

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18 months later and I'm still spending every spare moment researching diabetes, ketosis and paleo, Grace. I still think that the diabetes is one of the best things that's ever happened to me, because of all that I've learned, and because of how healthy, fit and happy I now am...

borofergie said:

GraceK said:

I'm only 2 months or so into my diagnosis but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed - it's just that there is so much to learn about the condition that it takes a lot of time up.

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18 months later and I'm still spending every spare moment researching diabetes, ketosis and paleo, Grace. I still think that the diabetes is one of the best things that's ever happened to me, because of all that I've learned, and because of how healthy, fit and happy I now am...

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I'm 60 next year Boro ... and I'm aiming to be fitter at 60+ than I've ever been in my life. So I'll be taking note of all your information and advice ... it's been great so far :thumbup:

I am about 5 months in now and I think I am obsessed and quite rightly so, I don't want to loose a limb, go blind, loose a foot, die. I am married I have a 4 year old and now a new baby, I want/need to be there for them, especially as I am a stay at home dad it's more important.

Having a new baby the last 4 days and my routine out of whack my levels have been high 6's and 7's, I don't do 7's now i have control. I manage to get down the gym today, so done a solid 2 hour workout on legs and arms, my levels are now 5.4 and I feel much better now

I am currently getting strips, but not enough and I fund my own extra so I can test more and ensure I stay as low as possible. As like Defren I ultra low carb <35g usually.anything with a hint of carbs and my levels raise, I still eat cake and all the things you should not, but. Make them myself using almond flour and sweetness, so there's not really any excuse to eat a cheesecake or biscuit as its easy to produce a sugar free, low carb version.

And I know it's hard and sometimes can overcome you, it did for me at the beginning. But it's just got to be done and like said in other posts, if it has to become a little OCD/obsessive then so be it if it keeps me healthy for as long as possible. If I had known before what I knew now about foods, maybe this would have been avoidable.....

borofergie said:

GraceK said:

I'm only 2 months or so into my diagnosis but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed - it's just that there is so much to learn about the condition that it takes a lot of time up.

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18 months later and I'm still spending every spare moment researching diabetes, ketosis and paleo, Grace. I still think that the diabetes is one of the best things that's ever happened to me, because of all that I've learned, and because of how healthy, fit and happy I now am...

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I couldn't agree with both of you more. Their is a huge amount to learn and each little path takes you to even greater understanding about just how purposefully we have been misinformed and dissolutioned about our health and how much better we can feel by taking a little control. I am relatively new to this journey and I am sure that I will have lows and highs but I am in a different world and like you Boro.... It is the most eye opening and positive things to happen to my personal well being. I liken this journey to one I took some 25 years ago when I quite a 3 pack a day smoking habit..... I have gotten past the physical addiction relatively quickly and it will take a year or so to get past the visions of comfort that a nice piece of chocolate cake will yield. What I am starting to see is that a good number of people find diabetes an inconvenience to their life rather than a big red flag that says the 'life' is ruining your life. For the first time in my life I truly understand the implications of the phrase... Are you living to eat or eating to live....

Kenny :thumbup:

Agree agree agree!

Mmmm ... just had my little bowl of fruit with lashings of cream ... that's eating to live for ya!

GraceK said:

Mmmm ... just had my little bowl of fruit with lashings of cream ... that's eating to live for ya!

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I just had a bowl of sugar free jelly with some whey hey ice cream and double cream. It's expensive for a little pot of the ice cream but i only have a spoonful at a time.

Grazer said:

However, I do think that we also need to be frank about the dangers of high BGs. Then, if people can't get as low as they would like on existing diet/metformin alone, they have the choice of further tweaking their diets or seeking further medication. The simple facts are that non-diabetics very rarely get anywhere near the mid 8s on any form of diet, and the body regulates levels much lower than that for a reason. Many of us therefore like to achieve levels as close to non-diabetic ones as possible. Average Post Prandial readings will be reflected in our HbA1c, and every sensible piece of research ever done (I exclude the excuse for a study that the NHS used to suggest HbA1cs of 7.5% were better than 7%!) shows that risk of cardio vascular episodes rises as HbA1c rises. Studies have shown that even non-diabetics with an HbA1c at the top end (5.5%) have an increased cardio risk over non-diabetics at the more normal level (about 4.6%). To get as close to these levels as we can, we need to get our post prandial readings as near to normal as well. So there almost certainly ARE extra risks of having PPs always near 8 rather than a lower figure, but we can of course only achieve what we can achieve.

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Spot on Grazer. That's the advice you gave me when I first joined and it's the advice I follow to this day. Essentially it's "get as close to the levels of a healthy non diabetic as you can." How you do that i.e. through diet, medication or insulin is to my mind immaterial (so long as you've made an informed choice) but recognise the dangers of running your levels high is what diabetes is all about!

My opinion is if you allow that fundamental message to be relaxed as happens in our target driven NHS then it's no wonder so many diabetics cannot achieve an hBA1c less than the 6.5% that international experts such as the IDF recommend and its no wonder that a good percentage of people end up with complications.

BioHaZarD said:

GraceK said:

Mmmm ... just had my little bowl of fruit with lashings of cream ... that's eating to live for ya!

Click to expand...

I just had a bowl of sugar free jelly with some whey hey ice cream and double cream. It's expensive for a little pot of the ice cream but i only have a spoonful at a time.

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I had a bowl of low carb chocolate pudding with double cream for pud... Great stuff. +2 hours 5.7 so can have it again.

xyzzy said:

Grazer said:

However, I do think that we also need to be frank about the dangers of high BGs. Then, if people can't get as low as they would like on existing diet/metformin alone, they have the choice of further tweaking their diets or seeking further medication. The simple facts are that non-diabetics very rarely get anywhere near the mid 8s on any form of diet, and the body regulates levels much lower than that for a reason. Many of us therefore like to achieve levels as close to non-diabetic ones as possible. Average Post Prandial readings will be reflected in our HbA1c, and every sensible piece of research ever done (I exclude the excuse for a study that the NHS used to suggest HbA1cs of 7.5% were better than 7%!) shows that risk of cardio vascular episodes rises as HbA1c rises. Studies have shown that even non-diabetics with an HbA1c at the top end (5.5%) have an increased cardio risk over non-diabetics at the more normal level (about 4.6%). To get as close to these levels as we can, we need to get our post prandial readings as near to normal as well. So there almost certainly ARE extra risks of having PPs always near 8 rather than a lower figure, but we can of course only achieve what we can achieve.

Click to expand...

Spot on Grazer. That's the advice you gave me when I first joined and it's the advice I follow to this day. Essentially it's "get as close to the levels of a healthy non diabetic as you can." How you do that i.e. through diet, medication or insulin is to my mind immaterial (so long as you've made an informed choice) but recognise the dangers of running your levels high is what diabetes is all about!

My opinion is if you allow that fundamental message to be relaxed as happens in our target driven NHS then it's no wonder so many diabetics cannot achieve an hBA1c less than the 6.5% that international experts such as the IDF recommend and its no wonder that a good percentage of people end up with complications.

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Thanks Grazer and xyzzy ... that makes a great deal of sense.