Blood glucose 23.8 type 2 diabetes

donnellysdogs · Dec 31, 2016

Dont understand why you are seeing a specialist unless your GP really is totally unexperienced in T2 diabetes or just diabetes as a whole.

It is very rare for T2's to be seen by a diabetes specialist.

Something sounds odd about your GP.

Cut carbs from food and if not lowering then phone 111 or go to A&E

Kyambala · Dec 31, 2016

donnellysdogs said:
Dont understand why you are seeing a specialist unless your GP really is totally unexperienced in T2 diabetes or just diabetes as a whole.

It is very rare for T2's to be seen by a diabetes specialist.

Something sounds odd about your GP.

Cut carbs from food and if not lowering then phone 111 or go to A&E

Hello Donnellysdogs. When I lived in Warrington 16 years ago I had to see a specialist at the hospital every 3 months - don't know why because I was on tablets. This went on for about 2 years and only stopped because I moved to Uganda in 2001.

Kyambala · Dec 31, 2016

Happy New Year to everyone. I trust that you will know God's peace and blessing in 2017.

Mep · Dec 31, 2016

donnellysdogs said:
Dont understand why you are seeing a specialist unless your GP really is totally unexperienced in T2 diabetes or just diabetes as a whole.

It is very rare for T2's to be seen by a diabetes specialist.

Something sounds odd about your GP.

Cut carbs from food and if not lowering then phone 111 or go to A&E

Where I live you get referred to a diabetes clinic for diagnosis straight away usually. They have endocrinologists, dieticians, and diabetes educators on hand. My endo I see I've been seeming him since 2005 and he's a consultant to the hospital and trains other docs to be endo's.

Just curious, do your GP's there in UK order the GAD and c-peptide tests? Here it seems they only do the hbA1c test and they leave it to the endocrinologist to do the remaining tests to find out what type of diabetes you have. That's been my experience since I was diagnosed in 1998 and I've been through about 3 GP's or more since then and they all do the exact same thing. They've referred me back to the endocrinologist about 3 times (my current one is the best I've had though).... every time I present to a new GP they don't take my word for it but get an answer from the endocrinologist. But also by doing this in the first place the endocrinologist also diagnosed me with PCOS the same day I got diagnosed with diabetes. My current endocrinologist has been very handy when my meds have given me hormonal problems... he has advised my GP what to do and phoned me at home to see if I'm ok. So I think all types of diabetes should have an endocrinologist on their care team as they know a lot more than GP's on the subject.

johnmrg · Jan 1, 2017

Try eating a high fat low carb medium protein diet. Bacon and eggs and avocado for breakfast fried in real butter. Skip the bread, milk, cereal, sugars, fruits etc. Dinner palm sized portion of protein and lots of "above ground veg" no potatoes carrots etc all have way too much starch and sugars. Change from beer to whisky and soda, no cokes especially not "diet" drinks as the brain can't tell the difference between real sugar and fake sugar so still produces way too much insulin and you become insulin resistant. I've been on metformin and glicazide for over 20 years. Been doing this lchf "Banting" way of eating for a year now. Stopped my meds about 8 months ago and BG is usually 4.5-5.6 unless I go off the rails when it then spikes high. The food you eat has the most impact on T2D. If you are overweight and eat fruit and grains and suchlike then you are insulin resistant. Doctors advising what to eat usually know nothing about how to treat it as they have been brainwashed with the wrong dogma. Start reading and take control of your own BG

Daibell · Jan 1, 2017

Mep said:
Where I live you get referred to a diabetes clinic for diagnosis straight away usually. They have endocrinologists, dieticians, and diabetes educators on hand. My endo I see I've been seeming him since 2005 and he's a consultant to the hospital and trains other docs to be endo's.

Just curious, do your GP's there in UK order the GAD and c-peptide tests? Here it seems they only do the hbA1c test and they leave it to the endocrinologist to do the remaining tests to find out what type of diabetes you have. That's been my experience since I was diagnosed in 1998 and I've been through about 3 GP's or more since then and they all do the exact same thing. They've referred me back to the endocrinologist about 3 times (my current one is the best I've had though).... every time I present to a new GP they don't take my word for it but get an answer from the endocrinologist. But also by doing this in the first place the endocrinologist also diagnosed me with PCOS the same day I got diagnosed with diabetes. My current endocrinologist has been very handy when my meds have given me hormonal problems... he has advised my GP what to do and phoned me at home to see if I'm ok. So I think all types of diabetes should have an endocrinologist on their care team as they know a lot more than GP's on the subject.

In the UK it's very much up to the GPs and they are discouraged from referring you to endos as their surgery practice has to pay for that out of their local budget. Unless you are an obvious T1 i.e. very young and probably going into DKA then you are guessed as T2 unless you are lucky and have a real expert diabetes GP. As a T2 you are unlikely to be referred beyond the surgery and you have to rely on the GP/nurse skills in the surgery. the c-peptide and GAD tests are quite costly so GPs avoid doing them even if they know what they are. The UK NHS is currently in melt-down with a lack of GPs let alone those trained in diabetes and the way budgets work referrals to consultants are discouraged unless the need is obvious. I'm lucky as my surgery is quite good with diabetes but doesn't have a real expert. I'm sorry for those who have a small surgery with only one or two GPs and no DN and we sometimes see posts from these people being treated by GPs who know little on the subject. The upside is that it's free!

donnellysdogs · Jan 1, 2017

Even T1's struggle in our Practice to get under hospital care!

Mep · Jan 1, 2017

Daibell said:
In the UK it's very much up to the GPs and they are discouraged from referring you to endos as their surgery practice has to pay for that out of their local budget. Unless you are an obvious T1 i.e. very young and probably going into DKA then you are guessed as T2 unless you are lucky and have a real expert diabetes GP. As a T2 you are unlikely to be referred beyond the surgery and you have to rely on the GP/nurse skills in the surgery. the c-peptide and GAD tests are quite costly so GPs avoid doing them even if they know what they are. The UK NHS is currently in melt-down with a lack of GPs let alone those trained in diabetes and the way budgets work referrals to consultants are discouraged unless the need is obvious. I'm lucky as my surgery is quite good with diabetes but doesn't have a real expert. I'm sorry for those who have a small surgery with only one or two GPs and no DN and we sometimes see posts from these people being treated by GPs who know little on the subject. The upside is that it's free!

Interesting. Thanks for explaining.

I hope they at least do the GAD and c-peptide tests in future for you all. I say that because I've had them done 3 times since diagnosis and the last one I had at beginning of 2010 showed I no longer produce sufficient insulin. That's why I was placed on insulin therapy. So if they don't check this, they are using oral meds on you when they are in effect useless. I believe I had a couple of years of oral meds being useless on me. I asked for the check to be done and they agreed. The result lead to better treatment for me. Just imagine if it wasn't done.... I'd probably have some horrible complication from diabetes by now. With type 2 my experience has been you don't necessarily stay the same over the years, things change. I guess where you live they can still check that, but they'd need to be doing the GAD and c-peptide tests. I'm also thinking of the type 1.5's where the GAD test doesn't show antibodies initially and they often get treated like type 2's when they're not. I'm not type 1.5 as my GAD result didn't show that.

In regard to how we are referred here.... we are referred to a diabetes clinic which is run in a public hospital. So my endo is a consultant to the clinic and the hospital. He trains other docs. I actually first met him when I was an inpatient there and he came into my room with a bunch of docs asking them lots of questions about diabetes and what to check. So when I see him it doesn't cost me anything. Although the downside is you can't get in to see your endo in the public system whenever you like... you're allocated an appointment and you either attend or cancel and wait months for the next one. You can also see endo's privately here too but you would pay and use your private health insurance to partly cover the costs.

Daibell · Jan 1, 2017

Mep said:
Interesting. Thanks for explaining.

I hope they at least do the GAD and c-peptide tests in future for you all. I say that because I've had them done 3 times since diagnosis and the last one I had at beginning of 2010 showed I no longer produce sufficient insulin. That's why I was placed on insulin therapy. So if they don't check this, they are using oral meds on you when they are in effect useless. I believe I had a couple of years of oral meds being useless on me. I asked for the check to be done and they agreed. The result lead to better treatment for me. Just imagine if it wasn't done.... I'd probably have some horrible complication from diabetes by now. With type 2 my experience has been you don't necessarily stay the same over the years, things change. I guess where you live they can still check that, but they'd need to be doing the GAD and c-peptide tests. I'm also thinking of the type 1.5's where the GAD test doesn't show antibodies initially and they often get treated like type 2's when they're not. I'm not type 1.5 as my GAD result didn't show that.

In regard to how we are referred here.... we are referred to a diabetes clinic which is run in a public hospital. So my endo is a consultant to the clinic and the hospital. He trains other docs. I actually first met him when I was an inpatient there and he came into my room with a bunch of docs asking them lots of questions about diabetes and what to check. So when I see him it doesn't cost me anything. Although the downside is you can't get in to see your endo in the public system whenever you like... you're allocated an appointment and you either attend or cancel and wait months for the next one. You can also see endo's privately here too but you would pay and use your private health insurance to partly cover the costs.

Thanks. Whilst you may not strictly be a T1.5 if you define that as the result of anti-bodies surely you are still Late onset T1 as you have low insulin unless thru long-term insulin resistance? My GAD was negative but I still define myself as Late onset T1 (T1.5 or LADA for convenience although not strictly correct). The pancreas can fail due to viruses, pancreatitis or rare antibodies etc and the outcome is the same as T1. The only time I would say someone is an 'insulin dependant' T2 (as opposed to T1) is where they have had excess weight/insulin resistance for a long time, hence a classic T2, and this has damaged the pancreas? I have never been overweight in my life; have you gone down a similar route?

Mep · Jan 2, 2017

Daibell said:
Thanks. Whilst you may not strictly be a T1.5 if you define that as the result of anti-bodies surely you are still Late onset T1 as you have low insulin unless thru long-term insulin resistance? My GAD was negative but I still define myself as Late onset T1 (T1.5 or LADA for convenience although not strictly correct). The pancreas can fail due to viruses, pancreatitis or rare antibodies etc and the outcome is the same as T1. The only time I would say someone is an 'insulin dependant' T2 (as opposed to T1) is where they have had excess weight/insulin resistance for a long time, hence a classic T2, and this has damaged the pancreas? I have never been overweight in my life; have you gone down a similar route?

My endocrinologist advised I'm type 2 with insulin deficiency. I'm not type 1.5.... and definitely not type 1. My endocrinologist explained that this is what happens as type 2 progresses over time. I was diagnosed in 1998 and have only been on insulin for the past 7 years. I did 7 years of diet control only, and then 5 years of oral meds after that. From what I've read most type 1.5's develop antibodies on average within 4 years of diagnosis. My pancreas doesn't produce sufficient insulin due to beta cell damage from years of insulin resistance. This is why I always advise any type 2 to get the tests done over the years if things change as your pancreas can and/or does stop doing its job over time. But yes, my treatment is the same as type 1 obviously as I don't produce the insulin I need.... it doesn't make me type 1 though. Type 1 isn't the only type of diabetes that loses insulin production.... the big difference is whether or not antibodies are present which makes it auto-immune or not. I'm not auto-immune. If anyone asks me I say I'm an insulin dependant type 2 which is what my endocrinologist advised me I am. I've mentioned previously that my weight has fluctuated over the years. I also have a great aunt who is very healthy and thin and she is also type 2 with insulin deficiency simply because she has had it for years. She's never been overweight in her life. She said she is definitely not type 1 or type 1.5 either. She's on MDI like me... but she started out with diet control, etc.. like I did.

Bluetit1802 · Jan 2, 2017

When I was diagnosed I asked my nurse which type I was. I knew nothing about diabetes. She said T2. I asked how she knew, and she said if it were any other type I would be presenting with symptoms, which I wasn't, and also because my levels were OK. (random BG was 7.4, FBG was 7 and HbA1c was 53) As for a specialist diabetes clinic, I have never even seen a doctor for diabetes, not once. My nurse has been my only contact in the 3 years since diagnosis. I am happy with that.

mickellwife · Jan 13, 2017

kokhongw said:
You can see that within days of carbs reduction, my glucose level drops from 20+ mmols to < 10 mmols. And it has remain so ever since...

What did you eat to reduce your sugars that quick? My sugars are in the 20's before even eating
I need serious help

Freema · Jan 13, 2017

mickellwife said:
What did you eat to reduce your sugars that quick? My sugars are in the 20's before even eating
I need serious help

very high numbers indeed , could be from what you ate the previous days, but could also be because you don´t produce enough insuline, if you go really low carb (like under 20 grams of carbs a day )for about a week without cheating your numbers should come very much down
if the numbers don´t go down then there is something else wrong in your body, either too little self produced insuline or som infection or other illness...

kokhongw · Jan 13, 2017

mickellwife said:
What did you eat to reduce your sugars that quick? My sugars are in the 20's before even eating
I need serious help

Actually during the first week when I started taking readings, it was consistently in the 20s. Yes even if I did not eat, it was in the teens, 15-16 mmol. The big break came after I started drinking raw puer tea. That somehow normalize my glucose down to the 5s within 2-3 hours.

I wrote about puer tea here https://myhba1c.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/raw-puer-tea-for-glucose-control/

But generally I avoided carbs. So eat eggs, butter, cheese, roast pork belly, pork rib soup, ribeye steak, lamb shank, all kind of nuts, some leafy veg and sprouts etc. That is pretty much it. Over the year I find that skipping dinner or having light dinner helps with improving fasting glucose level.

Taking a couple tablespoons of virgin coconut oil is even more helpful when glucose is low. Better mental alertness, less hunger.

Freema · Jan 13, 2017

kokhongw said:
Actually during the first week when I started taking readings, it was consistently in the 20s. Yes even if I did not eat, it was in the teens, 15-16 mmol. The big break came after I started drinking raw puer tea. That somehow normalize my glucose down to the 5s within 2-3 hours.

I wrote about puer tea here https://myhba1c.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/raw-puer-tea-for-glucose-control/

But generally I avoided carbs. So eat eggs, butter, cheese, roast pork belly, pork rib soup, ribeye steak, lamb shank, all kind of nuts, some leafy veg and sprouts etc. That is pretty much it. Over the year I find that skipping dinner or having light dinner helps with improving fasting glucose level.

Taking a couple tablespoons of virgin coconut oil is even more helpful when glucose is low. Better mental alertness, less hunger.

thank you for you link of Raw Puer Tea .. I never heard of it before

kokhongw · Jan 13, 2017

Freema said:
thank you for you link of Raw Puer Tea .. I never heard of it before

You are most welcome.

But I have since reduced the use of tea. The reason being that strong brew of raw puer tea often cause hypo for me, I think it works by stimulating insulin release and for T2D with beta cells impairment, I prefer options that preserves and rest the beta cells rather than overload it.

Freema · Jan 13, 2017

kokhongw said:
You are most welcome.

But I have since reduced the use of tea. The reasone being that strong brew of raw puer tea often cause hypo for me, I think it works by stimulating insulin release and for T2D with beta cells impairment, I prefer options that preserves and rest the beta cells rather than overload it.

Okay thats worth knowing too..

Bluetit1802 · Jan 13, 2017

mickellwife said:
What did you eat to reduce your sugars that quick? My sugars are in the 20's before even eating
I need serious help

From your profile I see you are on insulin.

Perhaps you should post about this on your own thread as it sounds like your insulin dose needs serious adjusting. People on insulin injections have different problems to solve than those of us not on insulin.

Kyambala · Jan 13, 2017

johnmrg said:
Try eating a high fat low carb medium protein diet. Bacon and eggs and avocado for breakfast fried in real butter. Skip the bread, milk, cereal, sugars, fruits etc. Dinner palm sized portion of protein and lots of "above ground veg" no potatoes carrots etc all have way too much starch and sugars. Change from beer to whisky and soda, no cokes especially not "diet" drinks as the brain can't tell the difference between real sugar and fake sugar so still produces way too much insulin and you become insulin resistant. I've been on metformin and glicazide for over 20 years. Been doing this lchf "Banting" way of eating for a year now. Stopped my meds about 8 months ago and BG is usually 4.5-5.6 unless I go off the rails when it then spikes high. The food you eat has the most impact on T2D. If you are overweight and eat fruit and grains and suchlike then you are insulin resistant. Doctors advising what to eat usually know nothing about how to treat it as they have been brainwashed with the wrong dogma. Start reading and take control of your own BG

Wonderful information John. Welcome to the Forum - I see you are going to be a valuable member.

Kyambala · Jan 13, 2017

Welcome to the Forum Mickelwife. You have not given us enough information to be able to analyse your problem.
Which Insulin are you taking? What is your prescribed dose am & pm.? What do you normally eat in the evening for your meal and before going to bed? What other meds are you taking? It could be that you are not taking enough Insulin in the evening compared to the amount of carbs you are eating in the evening. Also inquire about the Low Carb High Fat diet from this site and also look up "diet doctor.com".

You will get good advice on this Forum from people who "been there". But don't forget to discuss this problem with your Doctor and DBN.

Blood glucose 23.8 type 2 diabetes

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