Boyfriend newly diagnosed, need help

[Boyfriend]

Morning everyone, well last night boyfriend tested at 9.5, still not ideal but a huge improvement on the beginning of the week, this morning he tested 12.5. How come it is higher after a period of fasting?

Another thing i tested myself last night after fasting and it came up as 6.3 so something isnt right is it?

My friend whose family are nearly all diabetic has told me to hang fire and keep an eye on it, she said it might just be stress cos im worrying about boyfriend? Anyway i shall watch how things go for a while esp with my diet. Watch this space. :cry:

 

[DiabeticGeek]

Morning everyone, well last night boyfriend tested at 9.5, still not ideal but a huge improvement on the beginning of the week

It looks like you are getting things under control - so that is good news. So long as the numbers keep on falling, then whatever you are doing keep on doing it. If the figures stop falling while they are still too high, then you need to think again about your management strategy.

this morning he tested 12.5. How come it is higher after a period of fasting?

The short answer is that the human body is amazingly complicated, and diabetes is a particularly complicated disease. It could have been a one-off glitch - or even an inaccurate meter reading. However, many diabetics (more often Type 1s, but sometimes also Type 2s) find that their morning BG is higher than it was the night before - this has been dubbed the "Dawn Effect". The exact reasons for this aren't very well understood, however it is probably due to the the liver thinking that you are starving. Normally during the day there is a surplus of blood glucose, and so the liver converts it into glycogen and stores it in case of future need. If you don't eat for long enough, the liver switches into a "starvation mode" and converts its stored glycogen back into glucose. The usual explanation for the dawn effect is that for some people, the liver goes into this starvation mode while they are sleeping. Then the stored glycogen is converted into glucose and the blood glucose level rises.

Some people find that eating a small high-protein snack just before going to bed reduces this effect.

Another thing i tested myself last night after fasting and it came up as 6.3 so something isnt right is it?

For an evening figure that sounds quite normal to me. To get a fasting figure you will need to not eat for 8-10 hours, and do the test first thing in the morning. You also need to do this over several days. If you consistently get a figure of over 6 then, you should probably ask your doctor to test you properly. If this is "pre-diabetes" then doing something about it now might prevent it from developing into full-blown diabetes.

My friend whose family are nearly all diabetic has told me to hang fire and keep an eye on it, she said it might just be stress cos im worrying about boyfriend?

It is sometimes claimed that stress can have an effect on blood sugar, however I don't think that there is any evidence to support this. It is true that the sort of severe stress that causes an adrenaline surge (e.g. traffic accidents, roller coaster rides etc.) can send BG all over the place, but emotional stress doesn't seem to.

 

[WatsonsGates.co.uk]

Another thing i tested myself last night after fasting and it came up as 6.3 so something isnt right is it?

quote]

Hi, I assume your brain is now on information overload, as mine was last month when I was diagnosed with type 1 and my son with type 2.

I found that the lengthy explanations from people (allthough they are trying to give you as much detail as possible) were too long and too much to take in, so I am only gona say 2 things that I have learned.

1. About yourself, none diabetes BG readings are perfectly normal between 4 - 8.

2. As BG levels go up and down during the day, this can cause blurred vision or dizzyness, it does not mean his eye's are gona be damaged. and walking into specsavers for an eye test is gona tell you nothing, as it is a different kind of test (photographic) to the back of the eyes, that tells you if there is any diabetic cause of deteriation. (his doctor will refer him for this test)

So at the moment you both are still in the panic stations period of diabetes, but try not to spend all your waking hours worrying about it.

 

[Boyfriend]

Thank you both for your replies and yes you're are right in that i am on information overload. In fact ive said to my boyfriend that we should both just try and forget monitoring and worrying all weekend , still trying to be sensible....it is all too much to take in isnt it? Speak to you again after the weekend.

 

[DiabeticGeek]

In fact ive said to my boyfriend that we should both just try and forget monitoring and worrying all weekend , still trying to be sensible....it is all too much to take in isnt it?

Try not to worry at all :!: Diabetes is a manageable condition, and once you learn how to manage it (and since you are already asking the right questions, you will) then it becomes an inconvenience rather than a major problem. It is important not to get complacent, the consequences of not managing it successfully do tend to be very horrible. However, the up side of diabetes is that it is pretty much unique amongst serious medical conditions in that your fate is very much in your own hands.

OK, how about this for simplified advice:

1. Don't panic!
2. For the time being minimize testing. Just do a fasting test in the morning two or three times a week, to make sure that your boyfriends BG is heading down towards something safe.
3. Still don't panic!
4. For the time being, take a simple approach to diet. Cut out major sources of complex carbohydrates and sugar (i.e. no bread, cereal, pasta, rice, beer and obviously sweet things). Live on meat, fish, eggs, salads, fruit and vegetables. Don't worry if this seems a bit dull at the moment - it doesn't have to be for ever, it is just a stopgap diet until things are well under control.
5. Aim to exercise for an hour a day.
6. In a few weeks time, when you have got over the shock and have stopped panicking - you can start testing rather more to work out what he can and can't eat, and this will become a healthy and sustainable (not to mention pleasant) long term diet.
7. Keep posting here. As I hope you have discovered there are lots of people who will advise and support you (and hopefully not confuse you too often :wink:

As far as you are concerned, there is probably nothing wrong with you, but if you share your boyfriends new healthy lifestyle then even if you do have pre-diabetes that will probably stop it from developing. If you want to, then occasionally do a morning test and if it is often over 7 then ask your doctor to do a real test.

 

[Boyfriend]

Hi everyone, well my boyfriends BG was up again last night to 17 but down again this morning to 12. I know that he was a bit naughty over the weekend eating some chocolate and carbs. But in a way it was good because it proved that our 48 hr experiment had made all the difference. His eyesight is really bad though and hopefully he has gone to the doctors this morning to see if a change in medication is needed. He was really down last night when he saw it back up to 17 but like i said it just reinforces the fact that we now know that we can get it back down again. The 12 this morning was a fasting reading.........i still dont understand if a fasting reading should be low or not....and ideas?

 

[hanadr]

You seem to have cacked it!
Low first thing in the morning 4 - 6
After meals up to about 7 - 8. some would say 10.
Less carbohydrate eaten is less to process.
If a true hypo ( below 2.2 )happens have a glucose tablet. they're sold in all chemists and most supermarkets.
A swig of Lucozade is ok, but it's difficult to avoid going too far the other way. My DSN ( diabetes specialist nurse)says a drink of Orange juice, but I find it' too slow.

 

[Boyfriend]

I wouldnt say cracked it but it was definately getting better.

So are you saying that when we got him down to 9.5 that was quite acceptable?

If that is so then if we can sustain the level to 9.5 or thereabout we are getting it under control?

This is mind blowing, i feel like my head is going to explode with all this info but i want to get it right, he is really suffering with his eyesight at the moment and it is quite worrying. He is loathe to go back to the docs, dont think he will go today ....its because they have been so unhelpful with him the other times he went. At least if i get as much info as possible i can help him in my small way. x

 

[DiabeticGeek]

So are you saying that when we got him down to 9.5 that was quite acceptable?

For a fasting level 9.5 is still a bit high, but it is a huge improvement on what it was. In the medium-long term you should aim to get it into the 5-7 range. When the diabetes is under tight control you should aim for BG to be pretty close to that of a non-diabetic. Since the side-effects of diabetes are caused by high BG then if the BG isn't high there won't be side effects.

If that is so then if we can sustain the level to 9.5 or thereabout we are getting it under control?

For now this is good. You want to aim for a lot lower, but that won't happen overnight. Hopefully, you will see it gradually coming down from this over the next few weeks. Don't worry about occasional glitches - just so long as the overall trend is downwards then you are doing OK. If it seems to stick at 9.5 for a long time then you will need to do something about it (e.g. lower carbs, more exercise or a change in medication).

This is mind blowing, i feel like my head is going to explode with all this info but i want to get it right,

Its a lot to cope with when it is all new, but once you do get your head around it then you will find that it is quite straightforward. The way I see diabetes is that it is simply one part of the bodies automation that has broken down. Fortunately, since this is to do with the regulation of digestion then it is possible to learn to "drive on manual". If you have never done that before it can be hard, but once you are used to it then it will become second nature.

he is really suffering with his eyesight at the moment and it is quite worrying.

The problems with eyesight often actually get worse as you start to get diabetes under control and BG comes down, because it is caused by the changes more than anything. If he gets the diabetes under control then this will stabilise in a few weeks. It may be that his eyesight gets better on its own, in which case you don't have a problem, or it may be that it will simply stop changing, in which case he will need glasses. Either way, I am afraid that is going to be difficult for a while - just keep reminding him that it is temporary and he will get through this.

He is loathe to go back to the docs, dont think he will go today ....its because they have been so unhelpful with him the other times he went. At least if i get as much info as possible i can help him in my small way. x

:cry: :evil:

This really infuriates me. The standard of care of newly diagnosed T2 diabetics is wildly variable - but often shockingly poor. The NHS "postcode lottery" strikes again. When I was diagnosed I spent a total of 10 minutes with a GP and had two 20 minute sessions with a nurse. The main advice given me was: "1. Don't test" - which I now consider to be bad advice; "2. Eat a low fat, high carb diet" - which I now consider to be downright dangerous advice; "3. Loose weight" - good general advice, but of limited value since I'm not massively overweight. Fortunately, I am lucky in that I have a background in biomedical sciences and used to do research on nutritional pathology. I work in a University and have access to a medical library - and can understand the scientific literature quite easily. Most people don't have my background, and when they have an unhelpful doctor the system is failing them woefully.

One thing which you might ask about, is whether there is a DESMOND course in your area. These are education courses run by the NHS in some parts of the country for newly diagnosed T2 diabetics and their partners. I have been told that they are very good, if you can find one. Ask your GP, or phone NHS direct to see if you can get on one.

Incidentally - the sort of help and support that you are giving your boyfriend is no "small way". Having a partner who is caring and motivated enough to do what you are doing can easily make the difference between getting on top of the diabetes or not. And that is the difference between leading a normal, healthy life and having a horrible slowly degenerating disease. When you do crack this (and you will) then the symptoms will go away. For people who don't crack it, then it is all downhill from here.

All the best,

Tim.

 

[Boyfriend]

Tim, thanks for taking so much time to explain things......like ive said we have sort of been thrown into this with next to no help at all, boyfriend has other health problems to contend with so i am just trying to take a bit of the strain off him by getting some info and helping him via his diet, any loving partner would do the same i think. We have had a lot to contend with.....we have only been together 4 months today so quite a start to a relationsip dealing with all this eh?

What a brilliant help it is too when someone like yourself replies so knowledgeably. Would you agree with what someone else has said that for a non-diabetic it is normal to test between 4-8 given that i have done a couple of tests myself that have resulted in over 7?

 

[DiabeticGeek]

Would you agree with what someone else has said that for a non-diabetic it is normal to test between 4-8 given that i have done a couple of tests myself that have resulted in over 7?

It depends when the blood was taken. During the day a non-diabetics blood glucose will fluctuate quite a lot (sometimes it can go well over 8 ) - it just doesn't stay there for long. If you are regularly getting a value greater than 7 for a fasting test (i.e. first thing in the morning after not having eaten for at least 8-10 hours) then it might indicate a problem.

My trusty endocrinology textbook (one of the main ones that is used in medical schools) says that the normal fasting level is less than 6.1, anything in the 6.1-6.9 range is suspiciously high (possibly pre-diabetes) and greater than 7 is diabetic. However, there are a couple of big "buts" attached to this. First of all these figures are assume that a venous blood sample is used (i.e. blood drawn from a vein by a nurse or doctor, and analysed in a lab). A DIY test using a fingerprick sample and analysed with a home monitor will give you a reasonable idea, but it is very much less accurate. Secondly, even with venous blood you might still get the occasional glitch - so it is only considered a reliable indication of a problem if it is this high on at least two separate days.

In short, don't worry about what it does during the day. If you often see it close to or over 7 first thing in the morning then it might (just might) mean that there is a problem. If get figures that high several times then it might be a good idea getting your doctor (hopefully not the same one as your boyfriend :x !) to do a "proper" lab test.

 

[Boyfriend]

Hi everyone, thanks Tim for your reply again it really does help.

Im unhappy this morning, boyfriend is on a real downer, his BG was 12.5 last night and 15.5 this morning, he is not taking this well, even talking about stuffing himself with chocolates saying he cant live like this. I wanted to read out your reply from yesterday but he wouldnt let me, said he wasnt interested. This is hurting me big time, i left him this morning and he wasnt talking to me. Last night, he was going to let me make an appt at the docs this morning but he has now said hes not going cos hes not interested. I wish it was me who had the diabetes not him. I will stick by him no matter what he says. Its his eyes more than anything else that are getting him down. I wanted to read what you said about them getting better in time but he wasnt having it. Feel so down, dont know what to do.

 

[Boyfriend]

Ok i am analysing what he ate last night to see if i have given him something that would make his BS go so high. I made him a home made lasagne with wholemeal lasagne, fresh mince, carrots, tomatoes, onions and with two layers of courgettes to make it a bit more healthy. He had this with a salad of lettuce, tomatoes and red onion with a lemon, olive oil dressing. He had two fruit corners during the night and another yoghurt with cereals, he had a drink of sunny delight too. Any thoughts??

I am clutching at straws here.

 

[Dennis]

The pasta in the lasagne is high carb, but shouldn't have a drastic effect on his BG. I suspect the likely culprit is the Sunny D. I extracted this from MSN's Healthy Lifestyle website
"Even now, after a mass outcry forced manufacturers, the Sunny Delight Beverage Company (who bought it from Proctor & Gamble in 2005), to relaunch the product, it still contains the equivalent of 28 teaspoons of sugar per 500ml. "

 

[Boyfriend]

Thanks Dennis, like you say i dont think the culprit was the lasagne esp as i bought wholemeal lasagne purposefully so that it would be better for him.

Another question, sorry folks, how about sugarfree sweets containing stuff like xylitol, do they affect BG? Also sugar free drinks etc come to think of it do the sugar replacements affect your BG?

 

[Nellie]

I think the major culprits were the fruit corners, yoghurt with cereal and sunny delight.
Fruit corner Carb 26.3g
a strawberry yoghurt with cereal carb 18g
240ml sunny delight carb 32g
around 102 carbs,
probably far more than in his main meal
The lasagna is more difficult to calculate it depends on how big his portion was : 50gms of dried pasta is about 35 carbs and say 10 more carbs for the tomatoes and carrots you can get an approximation.

It sounds like one of his biggest problems will be in reducing snacking but it isn't something that he can necessarily change all at once. He sounds as if hes suffering from a mixture of fear, denial and shock and wants it all to go away. I think most felt like that just after diagnosis.

 

[Dennis]

The recommendation from Diabetes UK is to steer well clear of all the "sugar-free" and "special Diabetic" sweets. They are sweetened with polyols, also known as sugar alcohols (anything ending in "ol" is a polyol). They do raise blood sugar, although not as much as sugar, but they are extremely powerful laxatives, which is what some of them were originally developed for. You are actually better having a smaller quantity of the normal sweets than the "sugar free" versions.

Drinks are a different matter. The diet versions of carbonated drinks use normal sweeteners, either aspartame or sucralose (Splenda), so have little or no effect on BG.

 

[DiabeticGeek]

his BG was 12.5 last night and 15.5 this morning

Try not to get too hung up on individual readings. Everyone has an unexpected high now and again, and it is inevitable while you are still working out the effect of different foods. The important thing is that the overall trend is down. If it looks like it has stalled then he is almost certainly going to need a change of medication, and that means another trip to the doctors. Given what you have said about his doctor, it might be worth trying to find a different one.

"Even now, after a mass outcry forced manufacturers, the Sunny Delight Beverage Company (who bought it from Proctor & Gamble in 2005), to relaunch the product, it still contains the equivalent of 28 teaspoons of sugar per 500ml. "

:shock: Wow! I have never drunk this stuff (I prefer my fruit juice to come out of a fruit), but that is quite scary. You do have to be very careful of packaged and processed food, they quite often contain a surprising amount of sugar (although not often quite as extreme as that) - this is true even for things that don't taste sweet. Before I was diagnosed I used to quite often eat supermarket "Ready Meals" (a bad and lazy habit). When I first started blood testing I saw that even the supposedly "healthy" ones sent my BG spiraling up scarily. I haven't touched the wretched things since.

he is not taking this well, even talking about stuffing himself with chocolates saying he cant live like this.
...
I wanted to read what you said about them getting better in time but he wasnt having it. Feel so down, dont know what to do.

This is difficult, and I am afraid that no one is going to have an easy solution. It is extremely difficult to help someone who is resistant to being helped. The main thing that you need to do is to stop your boyfriend doing anything self destructive, and be as upbeat and positive as you can about the whole thing. If you can get on top of it then things really will get dramatically better, and once you get the diet and medication sorted out there is every possibility that he will feel better than he has done in years. I was in a quite similar situation to your boyfriend (recently diagnosed T2), and only now that I have got it under reasonable control have I realised quite how awful I have been feeling for, I reckon, about the last two years. I actually have energy again, and want to go out and do things instead of just collapse in an exhausted heap.

The only other suggestion that I can make is if the testing is doing your (or his) head in then maybe you should cut it right back for the time being (or even stop altogether). Two or three morning tests per week should give you a rough indication of whether the BG is, on average, still coming down or not (just remember there will be occasional glitches, so don't panic when you see them). When he is in a better frame of mind, then you can start experimenting with food and try to fine tune the diet. However, if all the testing is doing is worry you both, then it really isn't achieving a lot.

Lastly, whether he knows it or not, your boyfriend is incredibly lucky to have you looking out for him. I'm sorry that these are tough times for you, I just hope that you can get through them. For what it is worth, there really is light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers,

Tim.

 

[Boyfriend]

Thanks so much guys.

Yesterday we didnt do any more testing, in fact i steered clear of the subject. This morning however he wanted to test so we did and it came out at an amazing 7.6 which is the lowest it has been , we couldnt believe our eyes, it has made me feel tons better and im sure it must have done loads to boost his morale. Hope we can keep it down like that now and hopefully his eyes will start to get better as they are really bad and he hates even leaving his house.

Now i know we shall avoid(if i have anything to do with it anyhow) the muller corners(i bought some of the light ones yesterday supposedly fat free - dont know how much difference but if he really likes them it has got to be an improvement) and bought some unsweetened apple & orange juices rather than the sunny d. He polished off the rest of the lasagne last night and judging by his test this morning that had no adverse effect on him.......like you have been saying all along its just getting to know what will and wont affect him. I feel so much happier today i cant tell you!x I just wish i could have the diabetes instead of him....he has told me off for mithering him too much so i have tried to back off.....though its in my nature, cant help myself ........

Thanks again guys.

 

[Dennis]

I'm glad you are both having a better day. Tim's advice is probably best for you at this stage. It is still pretty early days and there will inevitably be peaks and troughs in his BG levels, so perhaps dropping the tests to once every 2 or 3 days is a better plan for you.

You appear to like Muller yoghurts and their website is very informative on the nutrient contents of all their products (much more information than most food companies provide), so have a look at http://www.muller.co.uk/ if you want to know the sugar/carb/fat content of all their products. Just remember though that it is not the fat content that you need to be concerned with but the sugar and carbohydrate content. Fat doesn't raise blood sugar at all, and very often low-fat foods contain high proportions of sugar.

One warning about the fruit juices though. I know you are thinking "healthy eating" and they are a very healthy option if you are not diabetic. But a slug of pure orange juice is very quick-acting sugar and one of the favourite ways to to overcome a hypo, so not recommended for general consumption except in very small doses. Pure fruit juices may not have added sugar but are high in natural sugar (fructose rather than sucrose) so will send his BG soaring just like the Sunny D did. Either dilute it 50/50 with water, or try one of the flavoured mineral waters.

I wouldn't be too worried about mothering him too much - I bet he'd complain if you stopped!!