Breads!

Tescos normal brown thin sliced seems fine for me

I'll be interested in what other people find because I don't find many of those sold in UK supermarkets very good .I am shocked when I have to eat them now at how high they can raise bgl.
Personal taste, but I find the fluffy, lower carb breads horrible... a bit like cotton wool.
I sometimes make my own but am very lucky and can buy much better breads locally without spending a fortune.
What I like (and seem to be BGL friendly) are:
Nut breads
Mixed grains with with bran added
Bread made with spelt, rye.
Breads raised with sourdough ... what the French call pain de campagne.
(I like to see a very short ingredient list: flour or flours, seeds etc, yeast/sourdough and salt)

They are all dense though, so slices are small and none of them will make a good sandwich

I experimented with one slice of Warburton seeded batch last night with my evening meal.
Result? - I got the second highest meal +2 hours reading I have ever recorded!.

Regards Steve

I read some stuff about research into the benefits of oat-based bread (see below), but I don't know if it's commercially available, but I use Tesco's Finest Oatmeal Farmhouse Bread. I assume that it doesn't have the high oat content of the stuff being researched, but presumably it's better than no oat content at all.

Because it's Tesco Finest it's quite dear at over £1, but they also do a cheaper oat-based bread but it doesn't seem to be stocked as widely as the Finest version.

Having said that, because my BG is never tested I've no idea whether it actually works, so perhaps someone on here could give it a go!!

Although since I've brought my HbA1c down from 10+ to around 5.0 then it presumably isn't a total disaster area for me - I usually have four or five slices per day.


SCIENTISTS hope they have cooked up a way to tackle diabetes by helping create a new type of bread.

A study at Aberdeen University will look at whether an oat-packed loaf can help control blood sugar levels after a meal.

The product had to be created from scratch as no bread was commercially available with a high enough oat content.

The gap was filled after the scientists approached Macphie of Glenbervie, the Aberdeenshire-based food ingredients maker, and JG Ross Bakers in Inverurie.

The result will be eaten by volunteers taking part in the study and will be available in JG Ross shops this week.

Dr Alex Johnstone, at the university, said: "Our initial testing of the bread indicates that it is very palatable."

He said the study would examine whether the bread "could delay the need for people with type 2 diabetes to start taking tablets or insulin to control their blood sugar".

FordPrefect,

I use burgen soya and linseed, great toasted with a nice crunch. Also keeps my bs within acceptable range. I can't use other loafs, they send my bs sky high!

Regards

Nigel

Sonds familiar to the results I had with hovis seeded loaf according to GI it should be great

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Very few in the UK have actually been tested so it is trial and error.
Some sound as if they ought to be low GI but aren't. I have a suspicion it's to do with the manufacturing process, the Chorleywood method method which was introduced in the 1960s is used for 80% of bread in the UK. This method relies on high-speed mixers, oxidants and vegetable fat, with the addition of lots of commercial yeast. and water. To produce the flour necessary for this process the wheat is milled under tremendous pressure to force open starch cells so that the flour will absorb the maximum amount of water during processing. (this is what I think may make the gi higher)
It produces vast quantities of bread, cheaply in a short time. (flour to packet in 31/2hours). It's a world away from traditional breadmaking despite the hovis adverts.

The listed GI (on GI database and there aren't many) for UK breads range from Hovis white at 87, followed by Sainsbury multigrain at 80, the lowest is Crusty malted wheat bread (Finest, UK) at 52
But toasted hovis white bread is 50!,

This website explains the difference between traditional and modern breadmaking,

http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=471

Makes you wonder if the chemicals are what is causing the trouble some of us have when eating breads.

Sirius.

If you don't test after this bread that you are talking about how can you possibly know if it is any good for your Bg levels during the day ? What is the nutritional information on the packaging ?

Please tell me you don't just rely on your HbA1c readings...... :?

As for the Garioch Oat based bread etc, that is an old study. Possibly about 2 yrs old. It was high in carbs as well, 40.1g of Carbs per 100g. :shock: I know someone who tried the stuff and it provided the highest BG reading for many a while.......even though some of the bread was recommended by DUK I wouldn't take that as good advice, not without testing first.

How about you test before eating this bread, perhaps with just some butter. Say, a couple of slices. Then test after 1, 2 and 3 hrs and tell us what your readings are. Maybe you are one that can tolerate breads.....that would be helpful to those of us who are mostly unable to eat breads without huge increases in Bg levels ?

The only breads I can usually handle and keep to my tight targets are: Felix bread, which I bake from the recipe he gava a LONG time ago. Need more yeast to make some for the weekend. Must write it on the list. AND German Volkorn Pumpernickl type breads.
any breads made from processed,white wheat flour( wholemeal contains this too) is high in available carbs. Nimble and Weight watchers breads work by being low in weight they are puffed up by air.
Weight for weight rather than slice by slice, they are similsr to any other bread
Of course another solution is to weigh out the portion and cut it off the slice. that way I can handle any bread, but the portion is TINY>
Hana
PS, My gym class has the common English tradition of bringing cakes to class on a birthday. I take nut based cakes, but I join in with others by havin the tiniest sliver.

John,

This just proves that we are all unique!

As the saying goes: 'One mans meat is another mans poison'.

Regards

Nigel

I can only balance my blood glucose levels by adjusting the amount and type of carbohydrate that I eat.

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ALL well controlled diabetics,whether type 1 or 2 have to balance their carb intake no matter what their manner of medication or diet !

[For a start, you are an Type 1 and I'm an non-insulin dependent Type 2 - that's a massive difference in itself when it comes around to controlling blood glucose levels. You have insulin to balance out your carbohydrate intake - I can only balance my blood glucose levels by adjusting the amount and type of carbohydrate that I eat.

John

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That's a very simplistic view in my opinion. As Sue stated ALL Diabetics, whether NIDD Type 2's or
ID Type 1' s all strive to achieve good Bg levels by whatever means at their disposal. Yes, a type 1 can cover it with Insulin if they wish to. That was the old argument bandied around here by some. What many T1's are now doing is carb counting and reducing Insulin doseage as a result. They are not just eating what they want and covering it with the Insulin. They are pro-active in what they are doing and getting great results, sometimes better that many T2's who may also be on Insulin, or not, as the case may be.

You are adjusting your carb intake, which is reducing your glucose levels in your blood, that means your Pancreas doesn't have to produce much natural Insulin to cover what you ate. A result, lower Bg levels.
A type 1 can also do the same by just counting the carbs, as most do, then injecting Insulin as they HAVE to. By adjusting their carb intake, they are using less Insulin (injected) to achieve the same as you. Lower Bg levels.
I can't see much difference in the process myself...... :?

As ken says, if only it was so simple!
And there is another element that almost all of us can use; type 1 or 2, exercise. It works, even as little as 14 min as the Big Blue test on World diabetes day demonstrated. Personally if my level is too high postprandially I don't use a corrective insulin dose, if at all possible I'll do some form of exercise to bring my level down. I know of several type 2s who use a similar technique. I'm always surprised how rarely people are advised to exercise alongside the dietary advice.

phoenix said:

......As ken says, if only it was so simple!........

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Hi Phoenix,

Personally, I'm a very simple man who understands almost nothing whatsoever about insulin-dependent diabetes. However, I am aware that such people have a very different situation to deal with than mine in dealing with my non-insulin dependent Type 2 condition. I am aware that insulin users can use insulin to balance their carbohydrate intake if they so choose. I have no such tool to balance my blood glucose levels that I am aware of. All I can do is to adjust the amount and type of carbohydrate that i eat. I consider that that makes my decisions quite simple - it boils down to avoiding foods that send my blood glucose levels high.

I must say that I get tremendously confused by all the debates - maybe arguments describes it better - that go on on this forum regarding the various theories on the subject of diabetes. I'm more interested to learn from the first-hand experiences of others and then test them out on my own body. I have learnt a great deal by taking that approach since I arrived at these diabetes forums just over six months ago. I wish that I'd arrived here eight and a half years earlier.

Best wishes - John

Wallycorker wrote, I am aware that insulin users can use insulin to balance their carbohydrate intake if they so choose. I have no such tool to balance my blood glucose levels that I am aware of. All I can do is to adjust the amount and type of carbohydrate that i eat.

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Of course you have the tools to control your BG levels. Reducing carbohydrates is not the only method you can use. You are on Metformin according to your signature - a medication. You could increase your medication. You can use exercise to help control levels. You can as you say restrict your carbohydrate intake. The best tool of all is your brain, you are able to put all these things together as and when you need to and get an outcome....well controlled Bg levels.

A Type 1 IDD has the same tools, medication...Insulin, exercise to help, and can also restrict carbohydrate intake. They also have brains, hence the many on here who are controlling using all those tools and getting the same if not better results than you or I. Many have drastically reduced their Insulin intake as a result.

The only real difference between a Type 1 and a Type 2 is the Chemistry.
A Type 1 has to take Insulin, no other option because their Pancreas doesn't produce any.

For a Type 2 there is usually a combination of a partial failure of Insulin production and/or a reduced body response to the hormone (Insulin).

Both Type 1 and Type 2 can use the same method's - hence the number of T2's we have on Insulin. Everything else is the same, diet,exercise etc. No difference at all, same tools, same results.
I think most Type 1's nowadays are much more intelligent than to think....I'll just up the Insulin....eat what I want. Most want to look after their bodies, look after their health.

Debate, argument, discussion....all means the same thing really.

Hi Ken,

Certainly metformin seemed to be taking me nowhere. My GP just prescribed and doubled the dosage with no noticeable significant improvement. No degree of control there that I ever noticed really. As regards exercise, I've never really picked up that had any/much effect either. I'm quite willing to accept that exercise will help in some way but at 66 years-of-age then there is no way I want to plan my future control of my Type 2 condition around loads of exercise.

So that leaves me with managing carbohydrate intake - exactly my original point in this debate. If I'd not reduced starchy carbohydrate intake just over one year ago, then I suspect that I could very well have been on insulin now. Today, I seem a million miles away from needing insulin. However, I do realise that nothing is necessarily forever and that is why I'm always wanting to learn more as to how I might be able to improve my situation.

Best wishes as always - John

FordPrefect said:

Well we all know there are literally 100s of different types of bread out there some good some bad! Now I very quickly learnt that white bread makes my BS levels go very very high, brown and wholemeal despite being pushed as healthier had a similar effect. Now I know grannery is good, also the burgen soya and linseed loaf is great as it has a minimal effect on my BS levels. As I went to a small local shop the other day I didnt have much choice so opted for the malted wholemeal which I had heard was good too but on testing found it was as bad as white bread again. Just thought it might be good to have a thread for people to post there good and bad breads and bread products.

Are there any others that people have tried that are tasty but also not too hard on the ole blood sugar levels?

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This is the OP of this thread, let's get back on track to the subject of breads.

cugila said:

If you don't test after this bread that you are talking about how can you possibly know if it is any good for your Bg levels during the day ? What is the nutritional information on the packaging ?

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Cugila, I didn't say that I knew it was good for me, I said "I have no idea whether it actually works".

It was merely a suggestion for discussion - you'll note that I couched what I said in cautious terms and didn't categorically say it was beneficial. And the brief newspaper article merely said it was part of a research project as well, it didn't suggest any definitive conclusion.

I had assumed that anyone reading it would to that extent have exercised appropriate caution.

Please tell me you don't just rely on your HbA1c readings...... :?

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I thought most T2s rely on HbA1c readings, so it's surely not that great a surprise?

However, since you raise the point the reasons I don't test for BG are:

- when I was diagnosed I didn't have a clue about the issues, thus I just did what the professionals told me. My HbA1c came down steadily to around 5.2 and my latest test was 4.8, thus perhaps fine-tuning wasn't as important as it is for some people, but I do appreciate that in an ideal world my diet and thus BG profile could be further optimised.

- Given that I'm quite well controlled I don't think that my GP would be too keen to give me strips etc, and to be honest given the NHS's limited resources I would feel slightly guilty asking for them - I'm sure there are plenty more deserving cases than me!

- A related factor is that I do long hours for **** wages (hence posting at 4am!) and thus buying them myself hasn't really been an option of late. My finances are getting back on track so I might have some spare cash in the new year.

Clearly in an ideal world I would be testing myself, but from my perspective it's a question of striking a balance between the cost and the fact that my overall control is quite good.

As for the Garioch Oat based bread etc, that is an old study. Possibly about 2 yrs old.

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Well the newspaper article dates from just over a year ago. And since the study was just commencing then then presumably the results weren't available until some time after that, if the study has actually finished?

I had a quick search but couldn't find anything apart from an appeal from the Rowett Institute - the one doing the study - for volunteers for more general research into oat-based foods.

Do you have a link for the study results?

It was high in carbs as well, 40.1g of Carbs per 100g. :shock: I know someone who tried the stuff and it provided the highest BG reading for many a while.......even though some of the bread was recommended by DUK I wouldn't take that as good advice, not without testing first.

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Indeed, and that's why I suggested testing it!

But thanks for the info, I'll maybe splash out on a meter and some strips in the new year and give it a go.

But I had assumed that because this was the non-low carb forum and that bread was being discussed then most of those reading would be fairly tolerant of bread - are you saying it provided the highest BG reading for a while of bread or are you talking about food in general?

How about you test before eating this bread, perhaps with just some butter.

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I thought the last thing someone trying to eat healthily would use would be butter. But is there some diabetic benefit that I don't know about - please excuse my naivety, but I'm not quite a nutritional expert, yet

Say, a couple of slices. Then test after 1, 2 and 3 hrs and tell us what your readings are. Maybe you are one that can tolerate breads.....that would be helpful to those of us who are mostly unable to eat breads without huge increases in Bg levels

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Hopefully I'll give it a go in the future.

That's if I find time with all this forum activity!!

Reminds me how time consuming such forums can be, and why I've given up on a few in the past :cry: