Can anyone explain Cholesterol result

[Dr_Ian_Dickson]

I love your algorithm. I will remember that instead of looking at my data sheets every time someone asks!

The current feelings seem to be it is the trigs/HDL ratio that is important and this should be under 0.87 (in UK measurements), and the lower the trigs are, the less nasty low density particles there are and the more big fluffy particles there are in the LDL, which cause no damage at all. In my opinion, the total cholesterol appears to be meaningless. Mine goes up every time my HDL goes up ........

Where is the medical evidence that statins are of benefit to anyone except those that have had a heart attack or heart disease? All the modern research I have seen seems to indicate they are of little benefit to those that have healthy hearts. This is particularly so in the case of women, and women of a certain age. In fact, as they raise blood sugar levels in many people, it seems they are more of a hindrance than benefit to diabetics .... quite apart from the side effects. Obviously, if someone has really abnormally high trigs and LDL, then there could be some benefit, but such people are normally referred to a specialist lipid clinic.

One of the main studies is the Heart Protection Study. There are many links to this in google etc. here is one link http://www.hpsinfo.org/pubs/Lancet 361;2005-16.pdf There are a couple of points. Study benefits of taking a statin are over the few years of the study. Unfortunately we don’t have really long term studies. But if you assume a 3yr study might have its results increased 10 fold if applied to a 50yrs old over their next 30years of life. There are cardiovascular risk charts - if you go to something like JBS3 online http://www.jbs3risk.com/ and their risk calculator try putting in a hypothetical total chol of 6 and one of 3 and see how the lifetime Cv risk varies between them. I think you’ll be impressed. The same study tended to suggest side effects from statins were quite small - bearing in mind 10-20% of people get side effects if given a placebo tablet.

I love your algorithm. I will remember that instead of looking at my data sheets every time someone asks!

The current feelings seem to be it is the trigs/HDL ratio that is important and this should be under 0.87 (in UK measurements), and the lower the trigs are, the less nasty low density particles there are and the more big fluffy particles there are in the LDL, which cause no damage at all. In my opinion, the total cholesterol appears to be meaningless. Mine goes up every time my HDL goes up ........

Where is the medical evidence that statins are of benefit to anyone except those that have had a heart attack or heart disease? All the modern research I have seen seems to indicate they are of little benefit to those that have healthy hearts. This is particularly so in the case of women, and women of a certain age. In fact, as they raise blood sugar levels in many people, it seems they are more of a hindrance than benefit to diabetics .... quite apart from the side effects. Obviously, if someone has really abnormally high trigs and LDL, then there could be some benefit, but such people are normally referred to a specialist lipid clinic.

 

[Guzzler]

One of the main studies is the Heart Protection Study. There are many links to this in google etc. here is one link http://www.hpsinfo.org/pubs/Lancet 361;2005-16.pdf There are a couple of points. Study benefits of taking a statin are over the few years of the study. Unfortunately we don’t have really long term studies. But if you assume a 3yr study might have its results increased 10 fold if applied to a 50yrs old over their next 30years of life. There are cardiovascular risk charts - if you go to something like JBS3 online http://www.jbs3risk.com/ and their risk calculator try putting in a hypothetical total chol of 6 and one of 3 and see how the lifetime Cv risk varies between them. I think you’ll be impressed. The same study tended to suggest side effects from statins were quite small - bearing in mind 10-20% of people get side effects if given a placebo tablet.

You may be interested in reading Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book 'The Great Cholesterol Con'. Kendrick is a British GP and his thoughts on cholesterol and data manipulation are an eye opener. Or perhaps view some of the interviews and presentations on youtube with Dr. Aseem Malhotra (British Cardiologist).
Prof. Ken Sikaris (Australian Assoc. Prof. Pathology) has some splendid lectures on youtube. There are a a growing number of HCPs addressing the whole topic of diet/heart myth, sat fat and cholesterol.

N.B Kendrick also has a book out called 'Doctoring Data', I have not read it yet but plan to do so.

 

[Dr_Ian_Dickson]

You may be interested in reading Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book 'The Great Cholesterol Con'. Kendrick is a British GP and his thoughts on cholesterol and data manipulation are an eye opener. Or perhaps view some of the interviews and presentations on youtube with Dr. Aseem Malhotra (British Cardiologist).
Prof. Ken Sikaris (Australian Assoc. Prof. Pathology) has some splendid lectures on youtube. There are a a growing number of HCPs addressing the whole topic of diet/heart myth, sat fat and cholesterol.

N.B Kendrick also has a book out called 'Doctoring Data', I have not read it yet but plan to do so.

Like many things in medicine different “specialists” will have differing opinions. I have read Dr Malcom Kendrick’s viewpoint.I was asked what is the evidence for statins in T2D and I believe HPS is a good study. Not everyone agrees. I’m happy you decide to take or not take statins - it’s a personal choice. I worked and cared for T2D in the pre statin, pre BP multi treatment days and many particularly of my male T2D patients died in their 50’s and 60’s of cardiovascular diseases. Fortunately now this is a lot less common I believe in part due to statin therapy. The choice is up to the individual. I’ll keep taking mine.

 

[Guzzler]

Like many things in medicine different “specialists” will have differing opinions. I have read Dr Malcom Kendrick’s viewpoint.I was asked what is the evidence for statins in T2D and I believe HPS is a good study. Not everyone agrees. I’m happy you decide to take or not take statins - it’s a personal choice. I worked and cared for T2D in the pre statin, pre BP multi treatment days and many particularly of my male T2D patients died in their 50’s and 60’s of cardiovascular diseases. Fortunately now this is a lot less common I believe in part due to statin therapy. The choice is up to the individual. I’ll keep taking mine.

It is a fair point that you raise re personal choice. I made my choice based on the knowledge and unbiased opinions of HCPs some of whom are at the top of their field. Of course, there are differences of opinion even within the same speciality but with a lack of unbiased, non industry led studies it is left for us, the little people, to make decisions based on what we research for ourselves. My research leads me to beleive that the science surrounding statins/cholesterol is incomplete at best.
I am happy that we are both comfortable with our decisions.

 

[PenguinMum]

It is a fair point that you raise re personal choice. I made my choice based on the knowledge and unbiased opinions of HCPs some of whom are at the top of their field. Of course, there are differences of opinion even within the same speciality but with a lack of unbiased, non industry led studies it is left for us, the little people, to make decisions based on what we research for ourselves. My research leads me to beleive that the science surrounding statins/cholesterol is incomplete at best.
I am happy that we are both comfortable with our decisions.

Back to me again. This is all a really good look at both sides of the argument. I guess things like family history also comes into the equation. My lovely mum died unexpectedly aged 77 from massive stroke. She was T2 only diagnosed 4 months though she did have lack of mobility and COPD. There was no inkling of CVD previously and up to a couple years before her death she had led a very healthy and active life. It has had quite an impact on me.

 

[Guzzler]

Back to me again. This is all a really good look at both sides of the argument. I guess things like family history also comes into the equation. My lovely mum died unexpectedly aged 77 from massive stroke. She was T2 only diagnosed 4 months though she did have lack of mobility and COPD. There was no inkling of CVD previously and up to a couple years before her death she had led a very healthy and active life. It has had quite an impact on me.

My condolences on your loss. My own mother died after having a heart attack aged 55. There is a strong familial history of CVD and CHD in my mothers family. I still decided to research statins before making any firm decisions and I suggest you do the same for your own peace of mind.

 

[PenguinMum]

My condolences on your loss. My own mother died after having a heart attack aged 55. There is a strong familial history of CVD and CHD in my mothers family. I still decided to research statins before making any firm decisions and I suggest you do the same for your own peace of mind.

Thank you and same to you. Your mum was way too young to go. I must admit that the Desmond course presenter laid it on heavily about not being able to avoid thickening of arteries in old age, she even drew a blocked artery on the whiteboard and said this WILL happen to you. She had all our cholesterel levels and there was big raised eyebrows that I wasnt on statins. I said I wanted to find out a bit more before comitting to any meds for life.