It's a great forum to be a member of, I have used it to dig up some info in the military section.
I received a lot of excellent data and links to solve my query at the time, but I still like to read various sections that I have a interest in.
Can I become a commercial Airline pilot with Type 1 Diabetes
- Thread starter AmarChana
- Start Date
I received a lot of excellent data and links to solve my query at the time, but I still like to read various sections that I have a interest in.
ScottyD
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 77
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
Sorry guys, just seen this!
I did already hold a commercial pilots licence and class 1 medical before being diagnosed with T1. My understanding is that both current pilots and aspiring pilot can continue/start after being diagnosed. Please don't quote me on this though.
Control does have to be very good and you need to understand your own body and T1. The testing protocol is strict but it has to be and keeps us all safe. We all rely on each other to keep safe whilst flying as all medicals can/will be pulled if deemed unsafe. A study back in September last year showed that there was 27 insulin treated airline pilots in the UK, logging 4,900hrs with over 8000 glucose readings only 12 readings were in the red range (<4mmol/l or >20mmol/l). They study has been going well with the Dutch allowing cruise pilots and a few other countries showing great interest.
I'm on an insulin pump which gives great control but again, it's very much up to you. Passing through security can be a pain at times but I love it. It's all about carrying spares - insulin pen, 2 vials of insulin, plenty of pump supplies, 4 packets of dextro tabs, batteries etc etc. Just peace of mind if anything. I also use a Freestyle Libre which the specialist at the CAA liked. Blood glucose testing is still mandatory until technology advanced further.
This is your bible - https://www.caa.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=4294973794
I have a copy of it in my flight bag incase I forget anything.
Thats a little background info. Any thing else, just ask!
I did already hold a commercial pilots licence and class 1 medical before being diagnosed with T1. My understanding is that both current pilots and aspiring pilot can continue/start after being diagnosed. Please don't quote me on this though.
Control does have to be very good and you need to understand your own body and T1. The testing protocol is strict but it has to be and keeps us all safe. We all rely on each other to keep safe whilst flying as all medicals can/will be pulled if deemed unsafe. A study back in September last year showed that there was 27 insulin treated airline pilots in the UK, logging 4,900hrs with over 8000 glucose readings only 12 readings were in the red range (<4mmol/l or >20mmol/l). They study has been going well with the Dutch allowing cruise pilots and a few other countries showing great interest.
I'm on an insulin pump which gives great control but again, it's very much up to you. Passing through security can be a pain at times but I love it. It's all about carrying spares - insulin pen, 2 vials of insulin, plenty of pump supplies, 4 packets of dextro tabs, batteries etc etc. Just peace of mind if anything. I also use a Freestyle Libre which the specialist at the CAA liked. Blood glucose testing is still mandatory until technology advanced further.
This is your bible - https://www.caa.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=4294973794
I have a copy of it in my flight bag incase I forget anything.
Thats a little background info. Any thing else, just ask!
steve_p6
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 418
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
- Treatment type
- Insulin
This is what you want, there might be something more up to date but pump and CGM seems to be key.
http://www.pilotswithdiabetes.com/pdf/caa_jan_2015_diabetic_certification_guidance.pdf
http://www.pilotswithdiabetes.com/pdf/caa_jan_2015_diabetic_certification_guidance.pdf
ScottyD
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 77
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
I think it refers to no major hypo events. I was off work for 3 months gathering 90 days worth of blood sugar readings (4 times a day minimum). I'm not that perfect and had values less than 4 here and there. Lowest was 3.4mmol/l and my body tells me when I'm hypo. The CAA have to be satisfied that you're hypo aware. The CAA specialist just asked me what I did to correct etc and when I felt it come on. He checked every single reading over my 90 days. My A1c was 41mmol/l but was told to not go any lower ideally as you're running tight towards hypo. It's just a balancing act of not running into hypo but still aiming for that good A1c for long term health. Yes, they would rather you run high but you still want to keep complications at bay!
I attached a record of my diabetes flying logbook - this gets submitted to the CAA every 6 months. One reading was 4.3mmol/l and was in the 'corrective' zone as per the document I posted above. I just attach a note saying what corrections, if any, I took.
Attachments
Ahh! Thank you for clearing things up @ScottyD it really has helped! It's really impressive to see that you're not held back by T1D when flying - very proud to see a fellow T1D fly in and out of such busy airports.
Hi Scotty, You could ask at a CTC aviation event - they are held on the last Saturday of every month and it would be worth your while to go along. You can find out more here http://www.ctcaviation.com/events/airline-pilot-careers-event-25th-march-2017/ Good Luck and best wishes, Caroline
Hi Scotty I recommend attending a CTC aviation event - you could also ask there. These events are on on the last Saturday of every month. Sorry I can't post the link because I'm new here, but if you look on their website you will find it on the aspiring pilots page - there is a link on the right to careers events. The next event is 25th March. Good Luck and best wishes, Caroline
Hello @AmarChana, can you please let us know what happened with the CAA ? I also i'm a T1D diagnosed when I was 9 y/o and i'm now a 25 year old software engineer but my passion for aviation is still endless. If their response was positive i'd pack up and start my new journey.
Thanks a lot!
Thanks a lot!
New2T1D
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 66
- Type of diabetes
- Don't have diabetes
- Treatment type
- I do not have diabetes
- Dislikes
- Things that are unfair.
Hi, My son was diagnosed with T1D in Nov 2016, one week before his 16th birthday. He had been learning to fly, taking his ppl and we had just met with the owner of one of the large European commercial pilot flying schools the summer before (last summer in fact), to ask about how he might get a place there in the future: qualifications, A'Levels, first degree, etc. In short - even with a licence, it's highly competitive to get a commercial flying job. So armed with that info, he continued lessons, determined to be a commercial pilot, and then T1 hit.
We did research. This changed nothing re the ppl or indeed the commercial flying school entry/ licencing. Like driving, there are certain rules regarding bs levels prior to flying. Just adhere to them and there's no issue. However, he could not join the military, if he wanted to.
What the flying school owner told us - off the record - was that, despite disability legislative protection, he would probably find it more difficult to get a job with T1D, in reality. He said this was an unspoken thing and would not be admitted to. (Whether readers like this or not, please don't react, as I'm repeating what I was told. I work in HR myself, so I know how inappropriate this is.) We actually found this helpful, as my son has now decided that he is going for a different career option. His decision: why go for something that is going to be very tough anyway, that has just become tougher, when I can do other things. I guess he realised how much he did and didn't want to go for something.
He's continuing the ppl for the love of flying though.
I hope this helps and good luck with your career!
ScottyD
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 77
- Type of diabetes
- Type 1
T1 shouldn't allow you to think like that however...I'm glad he's got a career sorted at such a young age, good on him.
It's not the case at all with T1 being limiting. I posted earlier in this thread that people with T1 can still be issued with a Class 1 pilots medical to fly but not to quote me. I've met up with a few T1 commercial pilots in the last month or so and you can only be a T1 commercial pilot if you already held a Class 1. Rules and Regs for lower class medicals and PPL flying may very well be different.
I was a pilot for Flybe and 2.5 years into my career I was hit with T1. Company and Civil Aviation Authority all very supportive. I was in a holding pool with British Airways at the time awaiting a contract and start date. I emailed them and got a phone call from their recruitment pilot who said 'it wasn't an issue.... get the medical back and we still have a job for you!' He had just taken on 2 other pilots (from other airlines) who had T1. Four months later I got my medical back and the following day BA called offering me a job. I then got a call from the health department (I guess the answer of 147 days off sick in the last 12 months triggered that call!) asking about it all and how I was getting on flying with Diabetes. I was slowly building up confidence and you get into a routine.
Just like you start to have muscle memory flying an aircraft, you soon know to test your blood at all the required times automatically. It's just a little bit of forward planning with getting 3 monthly A1Cs done and booking 6 monthly checks with the CAA consultant to review your results and readings....a little forward planning just like if you went on holiday. Totally worth it for your dream career!
It's not the case at all with T1 being limiting. I posted earlier in this thread that people with T1 can still be issued with a Class 1 pilots medical to fly but not to quote me. I've met up with a few T1 commercial pilots in the last month or so and you can only be a T1 commercial pilot if you already held a Class 1. Rules and Regs for lower class medicals and PPL flying may very well be different.
I was a pilot for Flybe and 2.5 years into my career I was hit with T1. Company and Civil Aviation Authority all very supportive. I was in a holding pool with British Airways at the time awaiting a contract and start date. I emailed them and got a phone call from their recruitment pilot who said 'it wasn't an issue.... get the medical back and we still have a job for you!' He had just taken on 2 other pilots (from other airlines) who had T1. Four months later I got my medical back and the following day BA called offering me a job. I then got a call from the health department (I guess the answer of 147 days off sick in the last 12 months triggered that call!) asking about it all and how I was getting on flying with Diabetes. I was slowly building up confidence and you get into a routine.
Just like you start to have muscle memory flying an aircraft, you soon know to test your blood at all the required times automatically. It's just a little bit of forward planning with getting 3 monthly A1Cs done and booking 6 monthly checks with the CAA consultant to review your results and readings....a little forward planning just like if you went on holiday. Totally worth it for your dream career!
It is wise investing more than £100K training for a job that you will not be able to do if your diabetic control every gets worse? Remember that unlike a normal student loan, the cost of the training has to be repaid even if you are not earning any money, hence they like to have parents with expensive houses sing the loan agreement.
Also, the job of a pilot is worldwide, so it may be harder getting jobs if an employer can’t use you on some flights due to regulations being different at the destination and regulations can and will change over the next 40 years.
Remember that the first job as a pilot is the hardest to get and having anything that may put an employer off is not a good option. Someone that is already an experienced pilot when they get T1 has more reasons why they should be given a job.
Also, the job of a pilot is worldwide, so it may be harder getting jobs if an employer can’t use you on some flights due to regulations being different at the destination and regulations can and will change over the next 40 years.
Remember that the first job as a pilot is the hardest to get and having anything that may put an employer off is not a good option. Someone that is already an experienced pilot when they get T1 has more reasons why they should be given a job.
New2T1D
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 66
- Type of diabetes
- Don't have diabetes
- Treatment type
- I do not have diabetes
- Dislikes
- Things that are unfair.
Hiya, that's what my son came around to thinking, pretty much. Like I said, I work in HR. I know better than most what should be done and also what the reality is when choosing between two equal candidates when one is, for example, likely to be even a slightly greater risk for e.g. sickness absence. We may find this bitter to swallow (I know I have felt this way at times, during my career), but it is reality. An existing employee who develops a condition is quite different to an unknown, as you say. I'm not talking about the legal framework here; I'm taking about human behaviour. When it comes to flying, I imagine that the risk is magnified. He just weighed it all up and made a decision. Getting that first job just seemed to have got much harder and the risk of not getting a job to repay all that debt became starker.
It simple think like not being able to work for 3 months whenever the type of insulin is changed etc.
Hey sorry for the late reply, I contacted the CAA multiple times through email and phone and they ended up telling me to ask my local Aeromedical Examiner, I'm in the process of doing that right now as have been a bit busy with A levels. I'll let you know what they say.
Hey Scotty, it's kinda like a grey area as to whether those diagnosed before receiving a Class 1 can still obtain it, I'm going to email my local AME at Leeds Bradford airport and let you all know as soon as he replies!
I think you make a very good point, however I feel like if you really are passionate about something, you shouldn't let Diabetes hold you back. I guess it also depends which route you take as to whether debt and stuff like that becomes a problem. For me, I'm currently pursuing a degree in Aerospace Engineering MEng through which I hope to work in industry for a few years while side by side modularly complete training without the need of any loan service.
@ScottyD @Hussamabubaker I have just got an email from my local AME at EGNM and good news! He states the following "
It is possible and there are several Professional pilots about who have type 1 diabetes.
The routine is quite strict and essentially you have to have no sequelae of the disease. ie changes in the retinae at the back of the eyes and have no microvascular disease in either heart tissue or kidney tissue."
It is possible and there are several Professional pilots about who have type 1 diabetes.
The routine is quite strict and essentially you have to have no sequelae of the disease. ie changes in the retinae at the back of the eyes and have no microvascular disease in either heart tissue or kidney tissue."
Sounds like a very sensible way to reduce risk as no one can predict when they will get issues with control of their diabetes.
