Captain’s Log: Newcastle Diet Diary

[AloeSvea]

Hi @DreadCaptRoberts, how is it going? Are you two weeks off the halfway mark? (If I have understood your time frame correctly?)

I've been marking off a calendar in the bathroom I take my Fasting Blood Glucose readings, which helps me hugely to 'do my time', on this. And the halfway mark, I think, is a good indicator of trends. And good to know there is an end in sight?

I think it is perfectly natural to have cravings, and even to feel a lot of hunger. I know this is an unpopular viewpoint, as it is not very stiff upper lip, but I don't have a very stiff upper lip. Especially perhaps, if you are on the Newcastle Diet shakes? There must be a degree of adjustment to such a way of eating.

I hope the eating some extra salt helped. I am with bulkbiker on that, and believe the salt thing to be very important to wellbeing. Oh - and absolutely making sure you are drinking enough fluids and water.

Cheers.

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

Hi @DreadCaptRoberts, how is it going? Are you two weeks off the halfway mark? (If I have understood your time frame correctly?)

I've been marking off a calendar in the bathroom I take my Fasting Blood Glucose readings, which helps me hugely to 'do my time', on this. And the halfway mark, I think, is a good indicator of trends. And good to know there is an end in sight?

I think it is perfectly natural to have cravings, and even to feel a lot of hunger. I know this is an unpopular viewpoint, as it is not very stiff upper lip, but I don't have a very stiff upper lip. Especially perhaps, if you are on the Newcastle Diet shakes? There must be a degree of adjustment to such a way of eating.

I hope the eating some extra salt helped. I am with bulkbiker on that, and believe the salt thing to be very important to wellbeing. Oh - and absolutely making sure you are drinking enough fluids and water.

Cheers.

Hi @AloeSvea, yes I’m 2 weeks off halfway and seeing really good BG which keeps me going. How are you finding it overall?

My hunger seems more cycle related right now, I’ll know in the next couple of weeks if that’s the case. This is usually my eat everything in sight week!

 

[AloeSvea]

Very nice to touch base with you @DreadCaptRoberts. I'm a social creature, and definitely prefer to have someone or someones to share this kind of deprivation with! .

Great to hear about your BG levels. I guess that it the ultimate 'cheerlead' for me too! And yes indeed. (I am about to go to my thread and write up the halfway mark results, which are going the way I want them to.)

I was interested to read about hunger being related to your cycle, and the PCOS. (PCOS, for any readers who don't know what that is, is when the ovaries get hit with an insulin resistance cascade and hormone disruption, the ovaries get covered in cysts when the eggs aren't released but 'ingested', causing degrees of disruption to the reproductive cycle). I too had PCOS off and on, which is how I know insulin resistance was affecting me decades ago, and helped me come up with my SIRD diagnosis. (My longterm GP agrees.)

I'm post menopausal now, so that part of my life is in the past. It's weird to think that there will be a time when this part of your life will be over? I got diabetes at that time, which is not unusual apparently, due to the hormone changes increasing vulnerability to all the risk factors and so on. When my womenfriends talk/ed about hot flushes I say I didn't have those to any real degree - but I got REALLY sick! As in the diabetes. PCOS is of course a very high risk factor for type two diabetes. Never fun to be a statistic is it?!

Anyway. As I don't have a cycle anymore in that sense, I have not noticed cyclical hunger pangs, or carb cravings relating to the time of the month etc. For me - it's very closely tied to emotions and stress. Like a lot of people I didn't even understand that I ate lots of carbs and sugar to make myself feel better when stressed or distressed. (It worked! I guess.) (If you discount the ah, getting really sick from it.) And supermarkets and general stores pose a big 'craving zone' for sure.

Hope you have a way to deal with your cravings? I find I am keeping out of the supermarket, general store, and even open-air markets, to help deal with my eyes lingering on high carb food. And it helps just not to see it all for sure.

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

You too @AloeSvea!

In some ways I can't wait to be post-menopausal too but it's a while off and will no doubt present it's own challenges. In the meantime, I'm grateful that years of poor control haven't caused too much damage.

I'm finding the best thing is to have a warm drink and if I'm still really bad, eat something small. Though I've struggled to remain at goal of 800 calories a day, my BG and weight are responding well, so it's not something I'm worrying about unduly. I have a feeling things will get easier next week once the PMT passes.

Oddly enough I'm OK being surrounded by carbs - we have bread, crackers, rice, noodles - the whole kit and caboodle around and I'm not tempted. It's the salty meaty things that I have to ignore. The smell of hot food is also a huge temptation!

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

Something I forgot to add - last week, I bumped into my diabetic nurse while having a med review. She reviewed my weight, meal and BG readings. She's cautiously supportive but wants me to consider raising my calories to 1,500 per day.

 

[ringi]

1500 calories a day could be a very bad option as long term calorie controlled diets often result in a reduction of medtobonic rate.

From what I understand at 800 calories a day the body responds in much the same way as it does to fasting. Also at 800 calories there is no "long term" as the Newcastle Diet was never for more then 12 weeks, mostly being for 8 week. (ideally moving onto some sort of low or reduced carbs/suger after the 8 weeks)

 

[AloeSvea]

Hi @DreadCaptRoberts. Your DN suggested you bump up your cal-count to 1,500? Did she say why?

The last time I did the ND with food, I was overseen by a very supportive DN, who offered medical-clinic based NDs as a standard part of diabetes treatment, to groups of patients. She suggested I raise my cal-count too, at the halfway mark, but she absolutely gave me a couple of good reasons - one being - living in sub-arctic conditions, and it was winter. It takes a certain amount of energy to just keep your body warm, and the second reason - I can be an outdoorsy kind of gal, and liked my walks and weight lifting in outdoor gyms and so on. (Outdoor gyms, as in free of course and just part of the parks, are a wonderful thing about Sweden.) But she only suggested a 200 cal increase to 1,000 for all that snow and ice, in order for me to still have my walks and weight lifting and so on. And I was normal weighted by that stage, lower carbing (if big waisted) to begin with. (Sadly, I believe my 'personal fat threshold' is a rather low one! I wish this was not the case.) She regularly supervised NDs, so I trusted her judgement.

To increase your calorie load so much - I would want a reason, and a good one!

For the ND to work, as far as I know, there does need to be a significant energy-from-food reduction.

Did you give her the Newcastle Diet information for medical professionals you can get online? If not, I would strongly advise you to. (as in email links.) And ask her again about the 1,500 cals.

(Just a recap for readers: Basically the science behind it is communicated very clearly by Professor Taylor on behalf of his team, and boils down to the diabetes-reverse cycle idea, and significant calorie deficit is supposed to, or ideally, turns the wheels of a the blood glucose regulation cycle the right way, by depleting liver fat and then ultimately - the pancreatic fat.) (Your DN may not have looked it up online?)

Hopefully your DN has a reason that makes sense to change the ND parameter so much? (Remembering that it is normal and usual for medicated folks to have their meds adjusted on any food/carb reduction regime.) (And boy is the ND a regime!)

You and me truly understand in the context of an ND, that 700 calories more is a LOT of food. (Sigh.) (Food!)

I guess I say this in the context of - I normally eat, for instance on a low-activity day, about 1,800 cals. If I do some intense physical activity it'll be around 2,000-2,100, I think, because I have only ever counted calories on an ND, so it's just a guestimate. (But the second-time round with an ND - I think I do good calorie guestimates!)

Would you be having a significant energy-from-food reduction (ie a calorie deficit), if you were eating 1,500 calories a day?

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

@ringi @AloeSvea she didn’t really explain her reasoning, so I’ll be taking the literature in with me next time I see her.

I don’t doubt I’d slowly lose weight on 1,500 calories but I’d have to increase my activity a lot. My main concern is I tried this over summer and ended up with colds every other week. With gentle exercise that I’m doing now, max 1,000 calories works well but I’m sticking to 800 as much as possible.

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

Re-reading my entries, I can see week 2 of 8 has been more challenging than memory serves.

I averaged around 900 calories a day but really struggled with fatigue.

Food has been salads and broths, which have been super simple to make with knorr stock pots. Shakes have been relegated to breakfast which probably explains the calorie-creep.

I’m unsure if I want to have more shakes and fewer salads as I enjoy salads far more. Eating 4 times a day is feeling a little excessive with my current work patterns, so I’ve settled on 3 times a day.

I’ll keep on track and monitor my carbs - especially avoiding the skinny lattes when I’m out - way to many calories for a decaf coffee!

 

[ringi]

Consider having a black coffee with a little cream, as that is a very low carb option.

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

Today’s major faux pas - rushing out at 4am for a day trip to Paris. Forgot my testing kit *sigh* Then was too busy to grab a bite! On my way home now, will make sure I put my backup test kit in my bag in future. *doh!*

 

[AloeSvea]

I hope the trip to Paris was lovely, @DreadCaptRoberts.

Don't be too hard on yourself! I have found as the weeks pass, my 'dipsy-ness' is getting marked, and worse, which makes sense to me. (Day after day with not enough energy provided from food to function fully.) I found myself walking indoors with my laptop in a computer bag in order to show my bro something, and started unzipping it way too early (said my sister in law who was watching me), and was very surprised, and freaked out when the laptop fell out of the bag onto the floor. (Luckily, well carpeted.) This is just not something that would happen normally. (My computer! Good grief!)

But the dipsy-ness is in a good cause - we assume. Getting that fat out of our livers, and extended to out of our pancreases. Is the idea at any rate. I bloomin' well hope so!

How are the salads going?

 

[Brunneria]

Remember that there is no great long term harm from having BG upto about 10 for a short time (few weeks) if it enables you to change diet and lose fat.

@ ringi could you please provide a reference for this info?
I am uncomfortable with unreferenced statements like this, especially when it directly contradicts multiple excellent references found on the www.bloodsugar101.com website, which shows that beta cell damage occurs at blood glucose concentration above 7.8mmol/l, and that the damage increases cumulatively the longer the blood glucose is raised.

 

[Brunneria]

1500 calories a day could be a very bad option as long term calorie controlled diets often result in a reduction of medtobonic rate.

From what I understand at 800 calories a day the body responds in much the same way as it does to fasting.

Again, @ringi could you please provide references for these claims?

1500 calories is a calorie excess for some people (especially petite women) and Jason Fung’s blog states (and quotes multiple references to show) that 800 calorie diets come under ‘starvation diets’ which will, over time, reduce metabolic rate, whereas fasting does not - and calorie intake needs to be significantly below 800 cals a day to count as fasting. The figure of 1,500 calories = starvation may stem from the Minnesota starvation experiment. However, the experiment was done on young, fit, active conscientious objectors, whose unrestricted intake was around 3,000 calories a day. Which makes it a v different proposition from a petite sedentary woman.

Here are some links to Fung’s blog, discussing the difference between fasting and starvation diets.
https://idmprogram.com/how-do-we-gain-weight-calories-part-1/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/fasting-myths
https://idmprogram.com/the-failure-of-the-calorie-theory-of-obesity/

The book The Obesity Code (Fung) discusses this in great depth, with a comprehensive discussion of the hormonal ramifications.

@DreadCaptRoberts apologies for derailing your thread with these queries, but i wouldn’t wish you to be mislead.

 

[ringi]

@ ringi could you please provide a reference for this info?
I am uncomfortable with unreferenced statements like this, especially when it directly contradicts multiple excellent references found on the www.bloodsugar101.com website, which shows that beta cell damage occurs at blood glucose concentration above 7.8mmol/l, and that the damage increases cumulatively the longer the blood glucose is raised.

Sorry don't have a link to hand, but it is what Jason Fung’s recommend in one of his blogs for people on inslin who are starting intermittent fasting until they know how their BG will respond.

One of the Newcastle diet protocols https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/2017 Information for doctors.pdf
says to half inslin at the start and to contect the HCP if fasting BG is over 10 or very low. I think this was done as many GP were saying the workload is too great with people needing inslin doses adjusted often and hence refusing to support people doing the Newcastle diet.

bloodsugar101 is clearly correct that the length of time someone has high BG should be reduced as much as possible. Personally I think 7.8 is too high to have for long, but many people are not able to start LCHF, intermittent fasting or the Newcastle diet without relaxing their BG target for a few weeks.

Clearly if someone has a CGM and is willing to made many changes to their inslin dose they are able to do better then 10, but is it worth it given the risk of hypos and people losing heart due to having to take carbs to treat the hypos?

(10 is a maximum to accept not a target.)

 

[Brunneria]

Sorry don't have a link to hand, but it is what Jason Fung’s recommend in one of his blogs for people on inslin who are starting intermittent fasting until they know how their BG will respond.

One of the Newcastle diet protocols https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/2017 Information for doctors.pdf
says to half inslin at the start and to contect the HCP if fasting BG is over 10 or very low. I think this was done as many GP were saying the workload is too great with people needing inslin doses adjusted often and hence refusing to support people doing the Newcastle diet.

bloodsugar101 is clearly correct that the length of time someone has high BG should be reduced as much as possible. Personally I think 7.8 is too high to have for long, but many people are not able to start LCHF, intermittent fasting or the Newcastle diet without relaxing their BG target for a few weeks.

Clearly if someone has a CGM and is willing to made many changes to their inslin dose they are able to do better then 10, but is it worth it given the risk of hypos and people losing heart due to having to take carbs to treat the hypos?

(10 is a maximum to accept not a target.)

Thanks @ringi
That extra info puts it into context.

 

[ringi]

Thanks @ringi
That extra info puts it into context.

Do we need a write on this site somewhere covering this as it comes up every few months?

What I find admizing it that two leading experts who agree on little both choose the number 10, if I recall correctly it is about when the kidneys start to let the excess suger out, but I don't know if that is the reason.

 

[Brunneria]

Do we need a write on this site somewhere covering this as it comes up every few months?

What I find admizing it that two leading experts who agree on little both choose the number 10, if I recall correctly it is about when the kidneys start to let the excess suger out, but I don't know if that is the reason.

I think we just need to provide good references for every scientific statement or claim we make.

Personally, I dislike the implication that blood glucose ‘up to 10’ is OK for any T2, at any time, because the damage stacks up (as shown on www.bloodsugar101). Without clear context and references it would be easy for someone to think ‘well, if 10 is OK, then 12 can’t be that bad, can it? And if 12 isn’t that bad, then a bit higher won’t do much more damage...’ and every time, more beta cells die, and we make our T2 worse. The longer, the more damage is done.
Exactly the progressive condition that we can avoid by tight control under 7.8.

https://www.bloodsugar101.com/complications

 

[DreadCaptRoberts]

I’ve been lax updating! Newcastle Diet is going well, I’ve been consistently under 800 calories a day and back to energetic after my period.

@AloeSvea I’ve been experimenting with texture my salads and really enjoying the difference by mixing up cubing, grating, dicing etc. Mushrooms are also a mainstay with a good mouthfeel.

I’ll loop back and update the original post if I get time.

Today I weighed in at 18stone 12lb and 50.5% body fat. Blood glucose is in the 6s. Ideally I want to get to 5s. I’m still on humulin I and pioglitazone but have negotiated not taking Glicazide due to hypos.

 

[AloeSvea]

There is no "lax" on under 800 calories a day in my book! . Thumbs up, @DreadCaptRoberts.

I liked what you say about salads! I have become a big fan of white wine vinegar and sprinkle it on everything that needs a dash of taste and low cal (3 cals for a tablespoon/15g).

Great that your BGs are coming down, and off the glicazide. And lost over a stone in weight - big thumbs up.