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Carbohydrates? Newly diagnosed Type 2.

Montyshrew

Active Member
Messages
29
Location
Wales
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
White bread
I have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in April.
But am confused with the Carbohydrate intake.
I believed that Carbs were better for me than sugary food. I have never been a big sugary food consumer- until 5 years ago after major surgery where after I got into a habit of drinking a pint of Lucozade if I felt down or lethargic- When recovering from this I was having a daily blood test without any signs of Diabetes.

I have joined the Food diary website where I can monitor my calorie, carb, Sugar, fat and sodium intake.
I have excluded all added sugar from my diet and eat low/non sugar & salt alternative. I have exclude almost high salt/fat all junk foods such as Crisps, chocolate and sweets.
My food intake is below my limits and has been for most days although the limits are not adjusted for Type 2 diabetes. They are at a level that is allowing me to lose weight.
My issue is with Carbs, I do not know if I should be eating it or not. I only ever eat Brown/Wholegrain versions of grains but am not sure if I'm eating too much for a Diabetic as with me excluding the fats and sugary food I am struggling to find non-carb meals especially for Breakfast, eggs are an alternative but should not be eaten too often due to their cholesterol levels. Also shakes and fruit have a high sugar content and I am not sure if these are a better alternative than cereals for a Diabetic. Other meals such as meat/fish based ones which I have used to substitute carbs but they usually have a high fat content which is bad for cholesterol but they do fill me up more without pushing my Carb intake to high.
I have been told by my Nurse to be careful of soft fruit such as Pears, Peaches etc so am struggling to find what snacks I am also supposed to enjoy.

I have taken up walking and often find my muscles and energy drained afterwards but cannot find a drink to replace lost salt/minerals to aid recovery. The last week it took my Calf muscles up to three days to recover from 2/3 days of 3 hour walks, with my only sustenance during the walk a bottle of water. What are my choices to give me a pick up to sustain a decent pace for a longer walk?


My biggest vice has been binge drinking which leads to smoking, both of which I have manged to cut down on but I have a habit of doing a few good weeks of exercise and healthy eating, but I then get bored and blow it all with a need to socalise which usually means going out for a pint which then wilts my will power and leads to Smoking a packet of cigarettes and then more pints. I have been looking for alternatives to break the boredom such as travelling to watch football etc and exercising. But have yet to find as good a socalising aspect as going down the Pub
 
Hi,

the best thing to do is get a meter and test out the foods you like to eat.....

seeing how the food effects your blood sugar a few hours later and by next meal can be a useful tool when deciding if it should be a part of your diet....
 
Welcome. You're treading a well-worn path, due largely to misguided advice from the NHS and ""healthy eating" experts. Healthy eating is different for us in that broadly speaking carbs are damaging to us and, as @novorapidboi26 says, testing your blood sugar before and after individual meals and even single items of food will tell you what's permissible.
I'll tag @daisy1 to give you her excellent guide to managing your diabetes and if you have a read (it needs some time!) ask more questions.
 
Hi,

It is very important to learn about the role of carbs in diabetes control. All carbs turn to glucose once inside the system, including wholemeal, which takes a bit longer, but nevertheless still converts to glucose. So it is important we cut down on all carbs. The main culprits are bread, rice, pasta, cereals, potatoes and flour. We also need to be careful with milk and fruit. In order to replace lost energy we need to increase our fats. Lack of fats and reduced carb intake leads to lack of energy, so no wonder your muscles are getting tired. You also need to take salt. So a low carb/low fat/low salt diet is not a good idea. Cut the carbs, increase the fats and salt, and you will see a big improvement in your BS levels and the weight should come off, too.

It is a myth that eggs and other fats will increase your cholesterol. This myth has been discredited. Too many carbs will increase cholesterol. You can eat as many eggs as you like, they are good for you. A wonderful breakfast is bacon and eggs, with mushrooms cooked in butter, and a tomato. I'm afraid the NHS dietary advice is way out of date, and not at all suitable for diabetics.

Have a good read round, and do ask questions.

This thread may help you. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/a-new-low-carb-guide-for-beginners.68695/
 
Hi and welcome. Confusing isn't it when all the diet experts profer junk advice. All carbs will potentially raise your blood sugar and for diabetics that's bad news as we can't handle those carbs. So keep all carbs down sensibly low. For most people that means around 150gm/day or less. The meter will guide you. Take enough protein and fats, veg etc to make you feel full. You're worryning that I've suggested fats? That's the next bit of junk advice from the experts. Fat is not bad for you and doesn't raise your cholesterol by any significant amount but the carbs will particularly fructose. A low-carb diet will improve your HDL/LDL ratio and trigs. These figures are far more important than total cholesterol which is pretty meaningless. You need cholesterol for body repairs and blood cholesterol is not directly related to the deposits in your blood vessels. So, yes, avoid too many tropical fruits due to the sugars. Have eggs and bacon for breakfast and enjoy them!
 
You have made some positive moves, ditching processed food and sweets.

You don't mention having a blood glucose meter. If you have one, you can test your blood anywhere and discover whether there are particular foods which raise your blood glucose. This will help you determine whether you need to cut down/out any particular carbs.

The normal high carb low fat high processed food diet is often what gives people Type 2 diabetes. There can be other contributory factors - genetics, inflammation, sleep deprivation, stress, steroids, statins - research very recently has added regular doses of antibiotics to the list.

If you remove carbs in a big way, you need to add more fat to give your body energy. There is more and more research now showing that fat, even saturated fat, is not the enemy and that sugar causes harm. Trans fats are bad, some experts say seed oils are bad, some say they are healthy. Most seem to agree that olive oil and coconut oil are healthy.

Beer contains carbs - that beer belly many men have can be a sign of insulin resistance. There are databases on the Internet which will give you the carb content of many beers. Most beers contain very little sugar, e.g. Shepherd Neame Spitfire is 0.5g sugar per 100ml, but they are carby because they are made with barley.

Apples are quite high in glucose, you would be best to test your BG and find out what you can eat. Strawberries are sweet but because of all the fibre, many people can eat them, especially with high fat cream.

Exercise will help sensitise your body to insulin so the blood glucose gets pushed into your cells for energy. Those energy drinks are a gimmick, most performance athletes drink water or have their own drinks made up for them. As a beer-drinking walker, you shouldn't need more than water. I suggest testing before walking as exercising with high BG can push it higher. Also ask GP about the muscle thing, you may have a vitamin/mineral deficiency.

Smoking is bad for you but especially with diabetes. It can cause circulation probs and some research indicates it can make insulin resistance worse.

You're doing the exercise and cutting out the junk so well done you.
 
I forgot to say about socialising. Red wine or a dry white is good to drink (hardly any carbs) and also spirits as long as you have sugar-free mixers.

.
 

Meter is a good idea.
Not sure if cutting carbs and adding fat would have worked for me.
My HCHFHP diet simply benefited from cutting the carbs!

Ah, beer, decent beer would be good.

After a long study, in a place were lager is king, all I can say is if you need a drink, go for a stronger alcohol, ass it seems to have less impact.
Spirits are a moot point.
You need to be careful, as a lot of spirits are now suffering from the need to appeal to the sweet tooth, and have sugar added at the blending stage.
So, try without mixers, if it tastes sweet, you're onto a loser.
 
Rather than repeat anything said above, I'll just tell you a bit about my experience with drinking then feeling like smoking, intermittently. I did this for a few years then one morning after a night out I wanted a cigarette and had some left in the packet I'd bought the night before. So I smoked it and enjoyed it with my morning coffee, and then had another... when the packet ran out I bought another one during that day, and from then I was hooked, for several years. I made about a dozen decent attempts at quitting, none of which worked until I took a medication called Champix. It worked and finally I had no desire to smoke. That was 3 years ago.

So please be careful. We can live well with diabetes for a long time, but if we also smoke, the chances of a heart attack, and all the serious complications of diabetes, are so much higher. Not to mention more frequent infections, and blood vessel issues like leg ulcers and erectile dysfunction. Smoking is fun when you've had a few pints and the next day you don't crave them. But that changes if your body chemistry gets addicted.
 
@Montyshrew

Hello and welcome to the forum Here is the advice we give to new members, to complement the excellent advice you have received above.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 

Sorry for the long reply but I have some other things I'd like advice about.
My diabetes appears to have developed within the last 3-5 years as I have had regular Eye tests in 2010 and had daily blood tests when I was in hospital for Bowel surgery which as far as I know showed nothing. Although I have found they(NHS) tell you very little. They operate, take tests and usually respond with that's now fine or take these tablets. I never had a warning that I maybe on the road to this condition.
I have an issue with a dodgy ankle and knee after an injuries when I twisted them badly which can make walking a problem when trying to manage Diabetes. Neither has ever been treated so I have never known what the issue is with them and has played a significant part into me putting on the weight that lead to my current predicament which I mention every time I visit the GP get told Oh!!. And now I understand that if I need surgery on them that the Diabetes might create a problem.

Since being diagnosed I have had two blood sugar test at the GP's in my second one my cholesterol had shot up possibly due to me replacing high carbohydrate snacks with high protein ones such as Peanuts.
After my last blood sugar blood test in June my heart rate, my sugar or insulin levels had stayed the same from the first test, yet my cholesterol had shot up. I then had my Metformin doubled to 2x a day, I have also been put on Forxiga since July,
The only thing I have had since then was a blood test for Kidneys and Liver function in mid-August, I haven't had any feedback so if this means a good thing or not I don't know.
I am not due another Glucose blood test for around 3 months so I have no idea what my levels are, what they should be and what to aim for(they never tell me things other than good/bad and then it will be at a later appointment). So how do I know if what I am doing now is working or not? What my medication is supposed to be doing, how I should be feeling,so I do not know if these drugs are working! What should I look for?
The only indication I have is if I have eaten late at night, too much, or had a bad day is I get a thirsty bitter taste in my mouth in the morning.
Obviously my weight loss is a good sign of the good things I'm doing..

I have found quitting smoking helps with cramped calf's. Yet they could of cramped up due to lack of use and a very steep hill that I walked up.
The only other time I get cramps is in the mornings after I have had a heavy boozing session.
This is something I am trying to address but have got so used to socalising and meeting down the Pub, I do slip up at least once a month

Since the poor blood results in June/July I joined the ''My Fitness pal website'' where you input into a meals and exercises database it shows that my carbs intake is often well within the daily guidelines limit for someone who needs to lose weight at a recommended rate. But this diary does not have a ''Diabetic'' recommended Carb level rate so I have no idea what this should be..
I have severely cut down on my calorie intake which was a lot higher than it should have been pre-diagnosis Diabetic or not. I'm currently consuming 2,000-2,300 a day. Sunday is my ''break day'' to allow for Sunday Dinner which only pushes it over by 200-300 or so.
Yet you recommend high salt/fatty foods. But if I swap Cheese and fats for Fruit and Carbs then my Calorie, Cholesterol rates and Fat intake rocket and this concerns me about the effects this will have on blood pressure and cholesterol and also leaves me feeling less energetic.

My confusion is with what is labelled as good carbs yet is also now considered to be bad for Diabetics. And what levels are theses OK at?
Are Oats good/bad?
Are Bran Cereals good/bad?
Is Fruit good/bad?
Potatoes?
Brown Rice?
Quinoa?
Wholemeal Pasta?
You mention replacing meat with carbs, so would swapping boiled potatoes, brown rice and wholemeal pasta with extra beef, mince and the meaty part of a meal be better for me?

I don't believe since my diet that I'm eating too much of these but was eating far too much bread prior to diagnosis.
I have always drunk massive amounts of water which explains my thirst but I was doing this years before my weight gain anyway and it has become a habit..

When exercising I eat less and crave'' healthy'' foods such as Fruit what should I eat if Sugars and carbs are out?

In regards to my ''binge drinking'' issue. Which used to include an all day Saturday. I changed my habits
I have started to travel away at weekends to attend Football matches. I hardly ever drink alcohol and tend to get some exercise as well. And the time i'm away means I do not have an option of having a drink on the way home.
But this is a average day when I go:-

Often when I go out for a day I do not eat much, not having the time to eat much but do have breakfast of fiber based cereal am I wrong to do this? And what alternatives are their for a quick breakfast?- I generally refuse on-train catering and Station buffets due to them being a rip-off-.
After leaving early morning I tend to arrive 1-2 hours prior to kick off and either head to the ground(if it's walk-able) or sight see too include some exercise.
I have often gone a number of hours without eating by this time and have had very little other than Tea or Water.
This is where my another issue comes up:-
I suffer from a bowel issue which is manageable although if I am having a poor day bowel wise then I will avoid what is available at the stadium as there is rarely an alternative too white bread, pastry based meals-which set me off- meals, other than crisps and chocolate. Any advice here?

So what am I best doing(if my bowels OK) in regards to Diabetes a white bread hot dog/Burger or a pastry based Pie/Pasty? And should I be too concerned as it is a one off once a fortnight occurrence so long as I have had a healthy week?
Another issue I have had is even though I am more than comfortable walking into any Pub to socalise with strangers. I have never felt comfortable eating in public. I do plan it in my head by looking at a Cafe/Restaurant before travelling as I now this is a healthier alternative and a decent meal helps me with leg cramps and energy if I have reasonable walk to encounter.But more often than not don't bother
But what am I better off doing Diabetes wise? Going almost all day without eating and having a low calorie day or eating a meal that might not be too diabetes friendly and feeling better and having more energy so that I can walk better through the day? Being as this is only a once/twice a day in a month occurrence? Am I doing much harm

The only time I will eat regularly when out is if I'm taking my Nephews out for the day as lunch and sometimes dinner is important for youngster and when with them I do not feel bothered eating out.


I
 

It's when I'm out or even just on the way to go out for a drink that I struggle with. I am now fine at the Football, waiting for Buses, Trains and while at work. Even passing smokers doesn't bother me. The urge gets the better of me when I contemplate a Pint I sweat and get very anxious and find only a Smoke relaxes me. I'll smoke a pack of 20 within a few hours, buy more and if I have any left finish the pack off during the week.

(I can go all week without a Cigarette I even imagine smoking a Cigar when watching ''Minder'' and still don't crack) Yet my social life will be reduced to next to nothing if I stop going out at least once a month. I know I need to find new things to do and am trying to address this perhaps the Diabetic meeting can help here?
 
M
I'm on Metformin X2 and Forxiga, I do not know what my glucose levels are or what they should be the Nurse has not advised me to get a self-testing kit.
But I have almost removed ''Bad Carbs'' from my diet along with added to sugary drinks/food etc. But I do eat quite a bit of the wholegrain/Brown ''good''carb food.
As i'm listing all my meals into a database I can record my Carb intake, and it is almost always below the recommend level for someone to lose weight. Should I stay with what I'm currently doing until I have my next Blood Glucose test?
I am concerned about the advice on swapping the ''good'' Carbs with high fats/salty foods such as meat as the cholesterol levels peak and I have been told to reduce this too.

But on a bright note I am losing fat off my belly and weight in general by following a diet/exercise plan.
Should I continue for now or swap the ''Good Carb's'' for protein?
 
The one I forgot about was feet!

I have taken up walking to lose weight, but have encountered a couple of issues.
My Nurse advised me to moisturise and wear slippers my feet seem to have softened has this ''softened them up too much meaning they are not as able to withstand a long walk as well?
During this summer I purchased a strong pair of Walking boots and appropriate socks yet they do make me feet sweat a lot softening them up and making them sore, any advice? I cannot wear trainers due to my weak ankle on tricky walks and need ankle support.

What's the bigger risk plenty of walking and exercise to loose weight and hopefully beat Diabetes(can this happen if i'm in early stages of it?) Risking foot damage and infection?

Or doing other less enjoyable exercise that can lead to me giving it up but saves my feet from the impact of walking,
Whats the biggest risk from diabetes? The heart from to little exercise? Or Foot and leg infections/problems from exercise?
 
Hi. I can only repeat what I said earlier and Bluetit also said. You MUST get hold of a meter. Ignore the fact that the NHS advises against it, That's due to lack of budget and ignorance. Forget calories and think carbs. For diabetes, calories have little relevance. Don't worry about fats or protein as they will not cause you problems; the meter will show you that carbs are the big problem and if you have too many the body will simply store them as fat as well as increasing blood sugar. Although exercise is always good, when it comes to weight loss, diet has far more effect than exercise will ever have and the right medication with the right diet can help as well. I believe Forxiga can have good results.
 

Rather than go for the simple mantra of 'eat less carbs, nothing else matters' but instead, to actually to answer the questions you raised.

You go to the footie, so I won't beat about the bush for you.
I hope you take this in the spirit of how it's meant.
Test regularly. Buy a meter if you have too, then you'll know what raises your BS.
Give up the fags. If you drink, eat peanuts and keep your hands busy.

Are Oats good/bad? Depends on you
Are Bran Cereals good/bad? Not normally good
Is Fruit good/bad? Depends on the fruit and you
Potatoes? Not a cat in hells'
Brown Rice? Maybe Basmati
Quinoa? Depends on you, but I'm good with it.
Wholemeal Pasta? Maybe a spoonful?
White bread hot dog/Burger or a pastry based Pie/Pasty? Only if you go for a run after

The weight loss is brilliant, that's the best thing you can be doing!
So, keep doing it.
Walking is very good for you. keep an eye on your feet, but keep walking.
Any issue with your feet, get to the doctor, and make them have a look.

Finally, get a meter, test, and see what raises your BG.
That's the most important thing.
 
Your discomfort after exercise may be due to cutting your salt too much. Especially during the summer!

The advice on low salt is currently under review, and more progressive parts of the world are stopping advice to lower salt intake. I expect the NHS will catch up in a few years...

In the meantime, i suggest supplementing with hot drinks like bovril, or a good quality monosodium glutamate-free stock cube dissolved in water and drunk like soup. Alternatively, just add salt to cooking, like we used to before we became indoctrinated into Salt Paranoia.

If you are experiencing muscle weakness, you may benefit from potassium and magnesium supplements. They are inexpensive, and you need only continue taking them is you feel a clear benefit.
 

@Brunneria

The progressive parts of the world?
Which ones?
 
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