Carbs? What's the story....

Hello and welcome, sorry to hear of your dilemma and running a tea room as well. I am not type 2, but I know by reducing your carb intake of potatoes, rice, bread, pasta, cakes ( and some have practically scrapped these from their diet ) your BS should get better. But one size doesn't fit all, as some can tolerate some carby foods and some just can't. It's probably going to be trial and error with different foods and then you will find what works for you. Have a good look around the forum at all the sections.
Some others will be along soon with advice and support. I will tag @daisy1 who will be along with information for newbies.

Best wishes RRB

Brophy said:

However, I'm seeing a lot of people on here, don't eat carbs at all. That this has been cut out too. And I was talking to someone yesterday who follows a strict no carb, HIGH fat diet to control diabetes (albeit, type 1)
I'm now back to being confused.

Xx

Click to expand...

Hi. and welcome, many of the type 2 diabetics here eat a low - not a NO - carb (and higher fat) diet because it's the sugary and starchy carbohydrates that play havoc with our glucose levels. The increased fat replaces the energy we used to get from these "bad" carbs. No-one can actually eats a diet totally without carbohydrates as that would cut out practically all foodstuffs.

It's quite possible to eat a good varied diet of meat, (oily) fish , poultry, eggs, butter, cream, cheese, yoghurt, nuts, avocados, olives and olive oil, other nut oils and butters, non starchy vegetables, and low sugar fruits, e.g. berries. Ground almonds, coconut flour, flaxseed, etc can be used in our baking without us having to resort to flour. I actually make mini carrot cakes with ground almonds and pecans, baby carrots, and cinnamon and nutmeg, and they're much kinder to my glucose levels than a conventional recipe.

Cutting out the major culprits (e.g. sugars) will definitely reduce high glucose levels, and it may then depend on how your body copes with the other carbohydrates on how much your can reduce your glucose levels. - your meter will tell you this. But for many of us the NHS recommended cabohydrate levels are a recipe for a complete diabetic disasater.

Robbity

Hi @Brophy , welcome

Sorry but you have joined a long list of diabetics given rubbish dietary advice by GPs and DNs. Carbohydrates behave like sugars because they metabolise quickly to sugar in the bloodstream, albeit some more slowly. So if you want to control your BG levels cutting carbs is the key.

Have a read of the items linked in my sig below and ask any questions.

Welcome to the forum - I was about to say the same as @Robbity but they put it much better than I could

Just to add that I'm one of the people on a severely restricted (20g a day) carb intake and I don't eat bread, rice, pasta or root vegetables at all. The reason is simply that it works for me and the NHS advice doesn't. That doesn't mean everyone should do the same - it all depends on the individual.

That's why you'll often read the phrase "eat to your meter", which means find out what foods cause your blood sugar to spike high and avoid them.

The NHS advice is necessarily broad and takes no account of individual requirements which is why it works fine for some and not for others

So you have brought your levels down from diagnosis so that is really good and a step in the right direction so keep it up No two diabetics are alike so can't tell you what you will or will not be able to eat we all have to find out what suits us personally.Some do the low carb high fat diet and cut out all starchy foods like bread rice and pasta and most vegetables and fruit and they only eat green leafy veg and berry fruits others eat more of a variety. You don't say if you have any other medical conditions as this can be a factor in how you can eat with fats etc and it is best to check with your GP if you intend to change your diet drastically

Hi brophy and robin redbreast

There are so many devious pud, cake and savoury low carb recipes out there that I often wonder why tea rooms/ coffee shops ( not that I frequent them that often) don't offer low carb choices? Imagine a nice deep yummy cheesecake with the nutritional values displayed beside it. Or low carb Eton mess, muffins, quiche, sausage and egg 'muffins' I could go on but I am starting to drool.

Sugar not fat is becoming the enemy and I'm only on 10% commission!

Hello. Just to say it's all good advice above and I love the kitten, ahhhhhhhhhh
I'm sure you'll soon get the hang of the low-carb thing and will make it work for you along with your tea-shop baking. I too make carrot cake with few enough carbs for a slice a day.

Pinkorchid said:

So you have brought your levels down from diagnosis so that is really good and a step in the right direction so keep it up No two diabetics are alike so can't tell you what you will or will not be able to eat we all have to find out what suits us personally.Some do the low carb high fat diet and cut out all starchy foods like bread rice and pasta and most vegetables and fruit and they only eat green leafy veg and berry fruits others eat more of a variety. You don't say if you have any other medical conditions as this can be a factor in how you can eat with fats etc and it is best to check with your GP if you intend to change your diet drastically

Click to expand...

LCHF usually means you eat a lot of fruit and vegetables. As you obviously don't eat LCHF yourself it is understandable you don't know much about it. LCHF includes vegs and fruits like tomatoes, cucumber, aubergine, avocado, peppers, zucchin, winter squash, kale, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, fennel, artichokes, radishes, leeks and a wide variety of leaves and stems like swiss chard, spinach, celery, kohlrabi, lettuce, raddichio and such. There are root vegetables too like celeriac, swedes and turnips.
I don't call that restricted or lack of variety.

Pinkorchid said:

.Some do the low carb high fat diet and cut out all starchy foods like bread rice and pasta and most vegetables and fruit and they only eat green leafy veg and berry fruits others eat more of a variety.

Click to expand...

No NO NO - we don't (or shouldn't!) cut out most vegetables - just the starchy ones, which are far outnumbered by the wide variety we can and do eat... My no-go vegetables can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.

A low carb diet is not a restricted diet - it's merely a restricted starchy carbohydrate diet - there's a very big difference - and unfortunately there seems to be a load of misunderstanding/misinformation floating around...

Robbity

Baruney said:

Hi brophy and robin redbreast

There are so many devious pud, cake and savoury low carb recipes out there that I often wonder why tea rooms/ coffee shops ( not that I frequent them that often) don't offer low carb choices? Imagine a nice deep yummy cheesecake with the nutritional values displayed beside it. Or low carb Eton mess, muffins, quiche, sausage and egg 'muffins' I could go on but I am starting to drool.

Sugar not fat is becoming the enemy and I'm only on 10% commission!

Click to expand...

One of my local coffee shops offers a very nice 'deli platter' for lunch - salami, cheese, olives etc. OK there's some rustic bread with it but you don't have to eat that. The 'tapas' options which are mostly low carb seem to be gaining popularity.

The way I run/ran my WoE (Way of Eating) Is:
first I chopped out the Starchy carbs by reference to the Carbs & Cals booklets and where possible substituted in "carb friendly" alternatives (nut flour, cauli mash etc)
Where I wasn't sure or had a "guilty pleasure" I "ate to my meter" to find what was permissible!
Then I worked out my carb & protein intakes (am CKD3!) then worked out what my fats intake should be to balance energy requirements.
Hence My WoE is "HighER Fat, Low Carb" to my mind!

@Brophy

Hello and welcome to the forum. Masses of good information for you to look at written by members giving you their experiences with their diets. Here is some more information which we give to new members and I hope you will find it helpful. It, too, gives a lot of information about carbs. Ask some more questions if you need to and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 140,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Baruney said:

Hi brophy and robin redbreast

There are so many devious pud, cake and savoury low carb recipes out there that I often wonder why tea rooms/ coffee shops ( not that I frequent them that often) don't offer low carb choices? Imagine a nice deep yummy cheesecake with the nutritional values displayed beside it. Or low carb Eton mess, muffins, quiche, sausage and egg 'muffins' I could go on but I am starting to drool.

Sugar not fat is becoming the enemy and I'm only on 10% commission!

Click to expand...

It's difficult as most eateries cater for the masses, I am coeliac too, so a bit of a nightmare sometimes, tbh I don't eat out much, but son is taking myself and his sister out for dinner on Sunday, but with the three of us, it's looks like it's going to be interesting lol
When the word 'Tea rooms' comes up it conjures up a nostalgic feeling of happiness and takes me back to childhood days and the old films

All the best RRB

Robbity said:

No NO NO - we don't (or shouldn't!) cut out most vegetables - just the starchy ones, which are far outnumbered by the wide variety we can and do eat... My no-go vegetables can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.

A low carb diet is not a restricted diet - it's merely a restricted starchy carbohydrate diet - there's a very big difference - and unfortunately there seems to be a load of misunderstanding/misinformation floating around...

Robbity

Click to expand...

Hi. In practice I believe most of the carbs we eat are 'starchy'. What are the non-starchy carbs?

Hi. The NHS diet advice is not based on any good science so is no better than the diet advice you get on this forum except that we talk from actual experience. Most of us find that reducing the carbs reduces our blood sugar (and weight). However if you find that you can tolerate a reasonable level of carbs that's great and may mean that your diabetes is in early stages.

Totto said:

LCHF usually means you eat a lot of fruit and vegetables. As you obviously don't eat LCHF yourself it is understandable you don't know much about it. LCHF includes vegs and fruits like tomatoes, cucumber, aubergine, avocado, peppers, zucchin, winter squash, kale, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, fennel, artichokes, radishes, leeks and a wide variety of leaves and stems like swiss chard, spinach, celery, kohlrabi, lettuce, raddichio and such. There are root vegetables too like celeriac, swedes and turnips.
I don't call that restricted or lack of variety.

Click to expand...

Great list of vegetables and I would eat all those but then I love vegetables but not everyone does and will only eat certain ones
I don't think I actually mentioned ..restricted. .but I suppose it could be if you are not a big vegetable lover What I said was just giving an example of how varied the LCHF diet is among people here as some do very low carb and others not so low so everyone has found the way that suits them You must agree not many on LCHF eat a wide variety of fruits it is always being said that fruit has to much sugar in it so should be avoided

It's not simply that fruit has too much sugar. It's the fact that fructose is one of the worst sugars for diabetics.

Oh, and tomato is a fruit that is fine on LCHF as well as berries.

edit:- here's a link re fructose

http://food.ndtv.com/health/this-is-the-main-cause-of-rise-in-diabetes-cases-736390

hi and welcome @Brophy

I just eat to my meter. I test before eating, and then 2 hours after, and if the meal has sent my blood glucose up by more than 2mmol/l, then I look at the carbs in the meal and cut them down, next time.

It is a constant learning curve, and it means that I have ended up with a unique diet, perfectly tailored to my body and my needs.

- which just happens to match the LCHF diet

So, in your case, just let your meter be your guide, and you may end up with a different diet from mine, but it will perfectly suit you.

Pinkorchid said:

Great list of vegetables and I would eat all those but then I love vegetables but not everyone does and will only eat certain ones
I don't think I actually mentioned ..restricted. .but I suppose it could be if you are not a big vegetable lover What I said was just giving an example of how varied the LCHF diet is among people here as some do very low carb and others not so low so everyone has found the way that suits them You must agree not many on LCHF eat a wide variety of fruits it is always being said that fruit has to much sugar in it so should be avoided

Click to expand...

You don't need to be doing LCHF to be more careful and discriminating in which fruit you eat. Look at the enormous differences in glycemic index and glycemic load of different fruits. Avoiding certain tropical fruits, or being careful about how much you eat of them, is simply sensible diabetic control - it is not about LCHF dogma. Too much 'us and them' here, I think...