Type 2 Carbs, your opinions please

[Ross.Walker]

Hello, I read this site quite a bit now. I feel the love we have for each other and the kind comments.

So

This time last year I was 84kg, today I am 70 kg buck naked. I was diagnosed 5 weeks ago after the weight loss could not be attributed to diet and training alone.
My fasting level was 17.5mmol/l, cholesterol 7.3 BP 134/81. Taking 2000mg of Metformin daily. I am averaging 5.5mmol/l in the morning now, BP is now 126/73, cholesterol and hba1c tests results due Tuesday. I have behaved, I have stopped all added sugar, any sweetened drinks, portion sizes, counted all food in, all calories used in sports, harder fruits, no singapore noodles yet, no booze etc. I work out/walk/cross train 5 out of 7 days. 18.2% body fat, 5ft 10. BMI 23.1

So brief history done.

How do I get enough calories to put on some weight? I want to get to 75KG in 6 months because I have lost some strength and need it back to stop injuries in the sports I love doing.

My dietitian who is simply lovely suggested carbs in each meal as I was under the false assumption that carbs in veg counts. I am testing my bloods, eating, waiting 2 hours and testing to see which ones are good for me and which ones are bad.

I am also eating 4 times a day now to spread the load.

So if you have any good ideas how to increase my calorie intake and stay safe please let me know.

Regards

 

[ickihun]

Many type 2s are trying to lose weight but there must be some who need to add like you.
Good luck.
My only suggestion is to contact @TorqPenderloin who I believe does weight training whilst combating type 2.
Hope he can help or someone see your thread soon.

 

[zand]

TorqPenderloin is a T1 I believe, but yes he could help.

 

[Brunneria]

Just need to check with you - are you absolutely certain that you are T2? Have they done the thingummy tests (C-peptide and GAD I think they are called).

Once certain that you ARE T2, it is really a question of eating enough that you no longer use your body's reserves (fat) to function. So that means upping your dietary intake of protein and fat til the weight loss ceases.

There are a couple of other things to consider. If you have been reading the forum for a while, have you come across Professor Taylor, the Newcastle Diet and the idea of a personal fat threshold?

If your bg is good, and you have recently lost a significant amount of weight, it may be worth doing some testing on higher carb foods. If you have gone below your personal fat threshold, and your pancreas and liver are back to full function, then maybe you will be able to cope with more carbs.

My personal view is that excess carbs aren't good for any of us, but what actually constitutes 'excess' varies tremendously from person to person. So if your body can now tolerate the odd slice of toast, or naan bread, or mound of cous cous, then... enjoy.
- but you will only find out your personal tolerances by exhaustive (and enjoyable) testing.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I agree with Brunneria's comments. Do ensure you are having enough protein and fat already and try adding more low-GI carbs and check the effect on blood sugar. Do consider the possibility of Late onset T1 (I was slim and mis-diagnosed) with tests GAD and c-peptide. I really would like to understand the dietician's comments about carbs in veg; sounds like nonsense to me.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Thank you @ickihun. I appreciate you tagging me. Zand is correct, I do have type 1, but I'd be happy to offer my thoughts for what they're worth.

My personal view is that excess carbs aren't good for any of us, but what actually constitutes 'excess' varies tremendously from person to person.

Brunneria's comment above is exactly what I believe. Excess carbs aren't good for anyone, but the hard part is understanding what that means for you and your body.

I also believe there are safe and unsafe approaches to quantifying what "excess" means. Adding 20g of candy into your diet probably isn't going to be very helpful. It's probably going to spike your blood sugar as well. That's why I consider the glycemic load to be incredibly important. It's moderation of carb absorption without moderation of total carb intake.

The concept I personally choose for my body actually doesn't require increasing your carbs at all. The basic idea is to over-consume protein. Now, understand that that WILL cause your blood sugar to increase depending on how much you over-consume, but I find that the increase is very gradual and manageable rather than sudden spikes often associated with eating carbs. Depending on what form of type 2 you have that may not be the best approach, but it's an idea that personally works for me.

No matter what changes you make, I'd be very methodical and scientific in making them. Change one variable at a time, give it a chance to work, but when it doesn't try something else. I think too many people make the mistake of changing too many things at once and then they get frustrated when they can't figure out why it's not working (or why it's working too well).

 

[Prem51]

Hi @TorqPenderloin! As someone who does weight training can I ask what your views on the Protein Powder supplements are?
I am currently losing 1-1.5lbs a week on LCHF + exercise. I have gone down from 12st 5lbs to 10st 3lbs (BMI 28 to 21).
My plan is to continue reducing weight (and HbA1c) to about 9st by the summer.
If I get there I will look to stabilising my weight or maybe slightly increase to around 9st 7lbs.

I saw a program about weight loss and fitness training the other night, which showed a doctor doing weight training using only one leg to push weights. He then drank some Protein Powder shake, and another doctor who specialises in sport nutrition tracked the flow of the protein shake in his body, which showed that it did actually go into the muscles in the leg he had been exercising.

I have always been dubious about the claims made for these supplements. I didn't see how they could go into one specific area of the body, but this program seemed to prove they do.

So what do you think? Have you used them?
I think when I reach my target weight I will want to put more weight (muscle) on my arms and legs which were skinny even when I was overweight. So would gym workouts on those areas be helped by Protein Supplements?

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Supplements are great if you need them. The problem is....most people don't. Supplements are exactly what their name suggests.....they supplement a poor diet and the better your diet becomes the less help they provide.

Any of the legal supplements that advertise towards weight loss, muscle growth, etc are a ultimately waste of money. There is always going to be some moron that takes 5x the recommended amount so these need to be very safe so the companies can make a quick buck without a lawsuit. Bottom line, the supplements that actually worked all became illegal after they were abused.

Do I take supplements? Yes, but I don't spend much money on them.

I take a basic multivitamin, creatine monohydrate, 500mg of vitamin c, fish oil, l-glutamine, and bcaa powder. I also own whey protein isolate, but I haven't needed a scoop in about a month (I use it only when I don't want to cook food).

All of that combined costs me about $3-5usd/week when averaged out. I'd say the multivitamin and creatine are worth looking into because they're very cheap and they have the highest likelihood of making a difference.

 

[dms1]

I saw a program about weight loss and fitness training the other night, which showed a doctor doing weight training using only one leg to push weights. He then drank some Protein Powder shake, and another doctor who specialises in sport nutrition tracked the flow of the protein shake in his body, which showed that it did actually go into the muscles in the leg he had been exercising.

I also saw this programme and seem to remember that a subsequent experiment involving a group of people + a control group, found no significant changes affecting muscle recovery and performance.

 

[Clivethedrive]

Thank you @ickihun. I appreciate you tagging me. Zand is correct, I do have type 1, but I'd be happy to offer my thoughts for what they're worth.


Brunneria's comment above is exactly what I believe. Excess carbs aren't good for anyone, but the hard part is understanding what that means for you and your body.

I also believe there are safe and unsafe approaches to quantifying what "excess" means. Adding 20g of candy into your diet probably isn't going to be very helpful. It's probably going to spike your blood sugar as well. That's why I consider the glycemic load to be incredibly important. It's moderation of carb absorption without moderation of total carb intake.

The concept I personally choose for my body actually doesn't require increasing your carbs at all. The basic idea is to over-consume protein. Now, understand that that WILL cause your blood sugar to increase depending on how much you over-consume, but I find that the increase is very gradual and manageable rather than sudden spikes often associated with eating carbs. Depending on what form of type 2 you have that may not be the best approach, but it's an idea that personally works for me.

No matter what changes you make, I'd be very methodical and scientific in making them. Change one variable at a time, give it a chance to work, but when it doesn't try something else. I think too many people make the mistake of changing too many things at once and then they get frustrated when they can't figure out why it's not working (or why it's working too well).

I second

 

[Daibell]

I saw a program about weight loss and fitness training the other night, which showed a doctor doing weight training using only one leg to push weights. He then drank some Protein Powder shake, and another doctor who specialises in sport nutrition tracked the flow of the protein shake in his body, which showed that it did actually go into the muscles in the leg he had been exercising.

I also saw this programme and seem to remember that a subsequent experiment involving a group of people + a control group, found no significant changes affecting muscle recovery and performance.

Yes, although the powder made it's way to the muscles it made absolutely no difference to muscle power and was therefore considered a complete waste of time and money.

 

[Ross.Walker]

Just need to check with you - are you absolutely certain that you are T2? Have they done the thingummy tests (C-peptide and GAD I think they are called).

Once certain that you ARE T2, it is really a question of eating enough that you no longer use your body's reserves (fat) to function. So that means upping your dietary intake of protein and fat til the weight loss ceases.

There are a couple of other things to consider. If you have been reading the forum for a while, have you come across Professor Taylor, the Newcastle Diet and the idea of a personal fat threshold?

If your bg is good, and you have recently lost a significant amount of weight, it may be worth doing some testing on higher carb foods. If you have gone below your personal fat threshold, and your pancreas and liver are back to full function, then maybe you will be able to cope with more carbs.

My personal view is that excess carbs aren't good for any of us, but what actually constitutes 'excess' varies tremendously from person to person. So if your body can now tolerate the odd slice of toast, or naan bread, or mound of cous cous, then... enjoy.
- but you will only find out your personal tolerances by exhaustive (and enjoyable) testing.

Hello

I have absolutely no evidence that the diagnosis is wrong. I have a print out of my results, I am not sure how to interpret them, however I can at this point control my BGs with metformin and diet, not gone over 8.5 2 hours after food.
The dietitian looked at my intake of carbs vs fats vs protein and asked me to put more carbs in, 50grams oh quinoa/baked spud/couscous for example in a meal to allow the other components to be used to build muscle. It has not spiked my BGs and I feel fuller for it, no temptation for snacks. I count all calories in and out, I am a nerd at heart. I lost the weight before diagnosis and since the suggestion on average kept 0.5KG (accounting for a loss when pooping) on, not a lot of progress but I can state that my body recovery time from a gym session or 10mile hike is significantly better. This could be iterative from continued training but the timing is too coincidental to ignore.

Still new to to this so trying everything out, I try a meal combo 3 or 6 times to see if it gives a predictable result based on 2 activity levels to see if it is consistent. I know the nutrients in the food, for better or worse I use a fitbit to count the calories used. Adding in some more carbs is working for me.

The reason for the desired weight gain is for strength as I am a skydiving instructor in training and a formation coach, not currently teaching until signed off I hasten to add. Strength is required, I do not need to push 200KG, I do need to be able to control eager little meatbombs in the plane. The right level of strength will stop any straining.

So Ladies and Gents. Apart from testing all combos, what are your carbs of choice and why?