Cheese counting

[plowmar]

My meals are arranged through an intake of 50grms of carb. So I am quite used to taking the appropriate amount of quickacting insulin to counter it.

But why then do my bloodsugars increase when I have cheese - which isn't supposed to count- with one of my meals.?

 

[kitedoc]

Hi @plowmar,
Not sure what type of diabetes you have and what other medication you are prescribed and whether you are talking about 50 g carbs per meal or per 24 hours.
Some of us are on very low carb diets as TYPE 1 diabetics or others with LADA and on insulin. Very low carb is generally accepted to be 30 g of carbs or less per day.
In this scenario we are often burning fat in preference to glucose for energy and low carb intake means higher fat and protein intake to keep calories up and prevent weight loss.
With carb intake this low some of the protein we ingest is changed by the liver to glucose. To allow for this change there are some rules we might follow such as counting 50% of the protein ingested per meal as carbs. For example, 2 eggs i eat for breakfast = about 12 to 14 g protein. I count that as 6 to 7 grams of carbs towards the ratio if insulin to carbs i use in determining how much insulin to give before breakfast.
Of course cheeses with dried fruit added and soft cheeses may have some carbs in them also.
I hope the above helps.
Some more information about your self may help to answer your question more fully.

 

[MeiChanski]

Hello,
Like @kitedoc , I don't know what type of diabetes you have but correct me if I'm wrong but is it to do with the lactose in cheese? What I learned through the years is milk and cheeses have some carbs in them.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Hello,
Like @kitedoc , I don't know what type of diabetes you have but correct me if I'm wrong but is it to do with the lactose in cheese? What I learned through the years is milk and cheeses have some carbs in them.

Lactose is removed with the whey when making cheese. Aged cheese like Cheddar or Parmesan have only a trace of lactose, some soft fresh cheeses may have more.

 

[plowmar]

Hi @plowmar,
Not sure what type of diabetes you have and what other medication you are prescribed and whether you are talking about 50 g carbs per meal or per 24 hours.
Some of us are on very low carb diets as TYPE 1 diabetics or others with LADA and on insulin. Very low carb is generally accepted to be 30 g of carbs or less per day.
In this scenario we are often burning fat in preference to glucose for energy and low carb intake means higher fat and protein intake to keep calories up and prevent weight loss.
With carb intake this low some of the protein we ingest is changed by the liver to glucose. To allow for this change there are some rules we might follow such as counting 50% of the protein ingested per meal as carbs. For example, 2 eggs i eat for breakfast = about 12 to 14 g protein. I count that as 6 to 7 grams of carbs towards the ratio if insulin to carbs i use in determining how much insulin to give before breakfast.
Of course cheeses with dried fruit added and soft cheeses may have some carbs in them also.
I hope the above helps.
Some more information about your self may help to answer your question more fully.

Sorry, I am type 1 and have been for nearly 50 years but over the last year or so eating cheese with crackers totaling 50 g for my evening meal leads to an increase in the morning of my blood sugars, all other things being equal.
If the cheese contains fruit then I reduce the number of crackers to compensate.
Most plain cheeses, either in the packaging or a food carb. book I have all confirm that there is minimal carb. content, but am still getting increases where normaly I would overnight reductions.

 

[kitedoc]

Thank you for that info.
How many carbs per day, and is that all the food for your evening meal and how long between your previous meal and dinner? What insulin do you use in your pump?
What do you mean by having to do nighttime reductions when not eating cheese in your evening meal, and are you substituting something for the cheese on those occasions?

 

[DCUKMod]

Sorry, I am type 1 and have been for nearly 50 years but over the last year or so eating cheese with crackers totaling 50 g for my evening meal leads to an increase in the morning of my blood sugars, all other things being equal.
If the cheese contains fruit then I reduce the number of crackers to compensate.
Most plain cheeses, either in the packaging or a food carb. book I have all confirm that there is minimal carb. content, but am still getting increases where normaly I would overnight reductions.

Plowmar, when you have a moment, it would be really helpful if youwould update your profile, to add your type of diabetes and how you manage it. That really helps members tailor responses appropriately. As you can imagine, responses can differe between a T1, using insulin or a T2, controlling, using only lifestyle.

To update your profile, log itno the site, using your browser (as opposed to the App), then hover over your user name, then click on Personal Details. From there, it'll usually be clear enough.

 

[EllieM]

Sorry, I am type 1 and have been for nearly 50 years but over the last year or so eating cheese with crackers totaling 50 g for my evening meal leads to an increase in the morning of my blood sugars, all other things being equal.
If the cheese contains fruit then I reduce the number of crackers to compensate.
Most plain cheeses, either in the packaging or a food carb. book I have all confirm that there is minimal carb. content, but am still getting increases where normaly I would overnight reductions.

I've just been for an annual review and was amazed to find that my hba1C was only 49, as I've been waking with horrendous (teens) blood sugars. (OK, I immediately treat them to get them down.) I was assuming massive dawn phenomena but after a chat with my dietitian I think that cheese snacks in the evening may have been the culprit. She claimed that the fat in the cheese increases insulin resistance. ( I'd been assuming that I didn't need to count it after reading all the LCHF stuff on here for T2s). And here's an interesting article from Dr Google.

https://www.joslin.org/dietary-fat-can-affect-insulin-requirements-in-type-1-diabetes.html

A week after my visit I've cut the evening cheese snacks and my morning bloods are back in single figures. I've also lowered my basal....

Am left puzzled because cheese seems to be fine for T2s but maybe not so good for T1s? Not so sure where that leaves me if I want to go LCHF other than to maybe carb count for the protein in the cheese.... (And I really don't want to start counting for protein.)

 

[LooperCat]

Am left puzzled because cheese seems to be fine for T2s but maybe not so good for T1s? Not so sure where that leaves me if I want to go LCHF other than to maybe carb count for the protein in the cheese.... (And I really don't want to start counting for protein.)

I guess it’s because we’re not metabolically compromised - we just can’t make insulin. I find the benefits of low carb outweigh the hassle of dosing for protein, but I can understand not wanting to bother if you don’t need to.

 

[EllieM]

I guess it’s because we’re not metabolically compromised - we just can’t make insulin.

Well, I'm definitely at risk (if not already there) of double diabetes, as my Dad is T2 and I'm carrying extra weight round my middle that I'd love to lose (how I hate having to eat for hypos when I'm not hungry). So I've been going lower and lower carb on the principal that it would help my insulin resistance (1 unit for 3g is not great) but I think cheese is going to have to go (sigh). On the plus side I'm really happy with my sugars at the moment after dropping the cheese snacks.

Hmm, I think I'm going to start snacking on raw mushrooms. (And no, they won't be magic ones ).

 

[plowmar]

I have 4 meals a day with 50 g of carbs per meal. I adjust my insulin intake if I have more or less per meal or if I am doing any exercise.
The reduction I mentioned at night was if the cheese had any fruit in it. I use pens not a pump.

 

[LooperCat]

Well, I'm definitely at risk (if not already there) of double diabetes, as my Dad is T2 and I'm carrying extra weight round my middle that I'd love to lose (how I hate having to eat for hypos when I'm not hungry). So I've been going lower and lower carb on the principal that it would help my insulin resistance (1 unit for 3g is not great) but I think cheese is going to have to go (sigh). On the plus side I'm really happy with my sugars at the moment after dropping the cheese snacks.

Hmm, I think I'm going to start snacking on raw mushrooms. (And no, they won't be magic ones ).

Oh, that’s a worry. Although I’ve found my 1:10 I:C ratio is the same whether I eat LFHC or keto, I do only eat a measured amount of dextrose tabs for a hypo; same as I take a measured dose of insulin for a high. Maybe try a few weeks sans fromage and see if your ratios change?