Children and low carb diets

[Al's Dad]

Hello all,

My son was diagnosed with type 1 last May, he is 7 years old. Since September 2008 he has suffered with high blood sugars. The hospital have advised us that we need to address this by raising my sons insulin. However, I have always thought it strange that the hospitals approach was to promote carbohydrate diets. We have now started to reduce carbs out of my sons diet. However, I am concerned that I cannot find anything on the net of how low carb diets affect young children.

Is there any chance anyone could point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Al's Dad

 

[sixfoot]

I cant and wouldnt advise on T1 and Insulin because i am T2. However seek out postings by FERGUS as he is T1 and also a strong lo carb fan. Probably your best source of info on the subject here

Dave P

 

[suzi]

HI Al's dad,
I have a 10yr old T1 son, who was diagnosed at the age of 7. We have just started a Fabb course which stands for flexible adjustment of basal bolus, were also doing carb counting. I think the reason you can't find anything about the effects of low carbing for children is because it is highly ill advisable. Children need carbs for energy and growth, i have spoken to my DN about restricting carbs in Andrews diet, she said don't go there, but by all means if Andrew doesn't want carbs with his dinner on the occassional evening, then fine. Not all carbs shoot the bs up high, its all to do with balance. At present Andrew is taking 19u of levemir at bedtime, 6u humalog at breakfast,6u humalog at lunchtime and between 6-10u humalog at teatime, how does this compare with your sons insulin regime? Of course it depends on what food is consumed also, but if you wish to give me details on diet and insulins i'd be happy to point you in the right direction,
Kind regards
Suzi x

 

[sugarless sue]

Hi Al's dad.this is a tricky one and something that we do not like to comment on because of the differences in children,their growth etc.You really need to see a dietician for this.However ,have a read round the forum and you will pick up a lot of helpful advice about low carbing but this really needs to be discussed with his health care team especially at his age.

 

[Al's Dad]

Thanks Dave for signposting me to Fergus.

Hello Suzi, thanks for replying, much appreciated. My son's on two injections a day (Novamix 30). His morning units are 11 and evening is 8. My son's diet still includes wholemeal bread, brown rice, porridge and potatoes ect. We are putting greater enfaces on vegetables carrots, brocolli, and green leaves, cutting out all things white and processed like pizzas, white rice, white bread and pasta. We have reduced significantly Al's blood sugars, but still get a lot of spikes. We are still getting our heads round this!

Thanks

Al's Dad.

 

[Al's Dad]

Hello Sugarless Sue,

Thanks for your reply - We are meeting regularly with the hospital and value their advise. As I have said to Suzi, we are new to this and are struggling a bit. For instance, tonight, for his tea he's had sausage, small amount of potatoes, carrots and green beans. Before tea his blood sugars where 5 after it went to 13, yet last week virtually the same meal with teh same BS before wielded a BS of 7!

I just don't get it!!!!!!!

Thanks,

Al's Dad.

 

[sugarless sue]

Did you test at exactly the same time after each meal? There are a lot of factors to be taken into consideration especially with young children.Activity levels ,growth etc .

 

[Al's Dad]

Hello Sue,

Yes, we are becoming quite obsessive about routine!!!!

From the info Suzi and yourself have posted, it seems to me, that as long as my son has a healthy balanced diet that has had the processed food taken out of it, and we measure his carb intake, we should balance his diet with the insulin, we may get to a position of stable blood sugars. Furthermore, we where a bit worried about my son having to step up from 2 to 4 injections a day, however, from what Suzi has stated, and a post from Fergus on another topic, perhaps we where worrying unduly and should welcome, when the time is right, stepping up to 4 injections a day.

We are very grateful for your replies,

Thanks

Al's Dad

 

[sugarless sue]

I hope it all go's well for him.It must be a worrying time for you.

 

[hanadr]

Dr. Katharine has a diabetic son on low carb. She should be able to advise you from her own experience.

 

[keycare]

Hi,

My daughter is 7 and became T1 last august. She was started on twice daily injections. We had a very brief discussion with the dietician which involved a sainsburys shopping list. This still is our only contact with the dietician.

Initially, she was all over the place, we had no idea what effect any food had on her BG. My wife and I spent all our free time researching this evil condition and found that controlling her carb intake may be the way to go. Especially as she was on 2 injections/day. We figured that as she was having no isulin between breakfast and tea, we would evenly spread her carb intake during this time and 'feed her up' at breakfast and dinner. Her daily intake from breakfast to supper was 45g carb breakfast, 10g snack, 20g lunch, 10g Snack, 55g dinner, 10g Supper. Which was 150g carbs per day. Lunch and breakfast were the hardest because all cereal is just evil when it comes to sugar spiking and a packed lunch is difficult without bread. We followed the low GI cooking guides and tried to make everything she ate low GI as it reduces suger spikes.
Eg. now only buy Burgens Soya and Linseed bread in the because it's very low GI and only 13g carb per slice.
We managed to keep her sugars mostly under control.
She now has a pump, we still stick to low gi food but she now eats pretty much what she likes (in moderation). Xmas would have been a nightmare without the pump.

Perhaps dieticians are afraid to advise parents to cut down on refined carbs, I'm not sure why. My wife's a GP and the guildance given to GPs in relation to obese patients is to focus on low fat diets. It seems that the idea that all carbs turn to sugar which is then stored as fat does not figure. So they continue to eat too much bread, chips, rice and pasta thinking that that's all low fat.

The whole family now eat low gi and controlled portion sizes and we are all much healthier.

I don't advocate a diet as such, just low GI carbs and a more controlled ratio of carb in a meal. BTW wholemeal bread is just as bad as white bread in terms of sugar spiking!

Hope this helps.
Rich.

 

[ally5555]

hi al dad

I am a dietitian and do not post unless I feep appropriate.

My feeling is you need to talk to your team - kids have very different requirements to adults as they are still growing. Having analysed quite a no of low carbers diets then you may compromise a childs growth and development .In fact katharines son is not really low carbing and quoting her he is is on multiple injections. kids may also struggle with higher fat intakes.

There is very little research on low carbing and kids.

Most dietitians do not promote refined carbs but into a kids diet you may need to on occaissions such as parties etc .

Why not ask about a carb counting course - dafne etc - they have different names in some areas.
pm me please if you want some advice or pointers - i may have some contacts in your area.
ally

 

[JimmyD]

Hi we changed our daughter the the basul bolus routine and this has made a major difference, I suggest you look in it this.
Please feel free to ask questions as I will help as much as I can.
JimmyD

 

[diabetesmum]

Hiya,
I have two daughters who are Type 1 (ages 14 & 7), both now on pumps, but previously on basal bolus (multiple injections), and previous to that on mixtures (2 injections a day).

I have asked the dietician, the diabetic nurses and the consultant at different times about reducing carbs. Always, I get the same reply: don't do it! Although when pressed, the consultant conceded that there was something in the theory of diminishing numbers that Fergus talks about ie. the fewer the carbs eaten, the less insulin needed and therefore any mistakes made are smaller (either hypers or hypos).

My personal opinion is that lowering my daughters' carb intakes is to be encouraged. My older daughter especially has occasionally low-carbed for a day or two ( by this I mean eating fewer than 50g carbs spread throughout the day), and without fail her BG stays in single figures, mostly 5's and 6's. I think this is made easier with the pump because her basals are so finely controlled.

This can only be a good thing imo. She doesn't get lethargic or sleepy or lacking in energy, in fact she says she feels better on these days. BUT she is very attached to her carbs, esp big bowls of cereals, and finds it difficut to give them up!!

The 7 year old looks at me as if I am mad if I even suggest she goes easy on the carbs, but I still cunningly try to encourage her to snack on ham, cheese etc rather than biscuits, cakes, crisps etc - it doesn't always work!

I think there is a lot in what Rich said about HP's being afraid to okay low(er) carb for children. I mean, if they will not accept it's good for adults, they're surely not going to for children are they?

So really I think it's up to parents to research and think for themselves. Maybe try a little experimenting and see what happens. After all, if low(er) carbing does in fact carry health risks for children(and nobody knows that for sure), so too do long term high blood glucose levels, and that we know for a fact!

Anyway, that was just my ha'porth's worth as my Gran used to say!
Best wishes
Sue

PS How did Inuit children used to get on when they had no carbs at all for months on end?

PPS I would say that the further along the regime trail you go ; ie from 2 injections, to 4, to the pump, the more flexible things become and the easier life gets.

 

[suzi]

Hi Al's Dad,
As Al was only diagnosed in May, could be his blood sugars are gettting higher because the honeymoon period is over. When Andrew was on Mixtard 20 ( they took it off the market) i discovered through a DUK weekend that after 7months Andrew was on 1u per Kg = 22units and that his honeymoon period had came to an abrupt end, it came as a shock, but also meant we were able to stabilised his bs readings better. Of course that was till they took it off the market, and we changed to Humalog 25(=2 injections per day), which was a disaster , hypo'd far too often, then changed to Insumane 15 along with humalog twice a day, that caused too many highs (=3 injections a day). Then eventually Lantus and humalog (=4 injections a day) Switched to Levemir recently as Andrew found Lantus stung and was uncomfortable. Heading in the right direction now as Habc1 in 3yrs went from 6.4 to 8.8 and heading back down now 8.1.
All kids are different and you'l find what suits Al eventually, 3-4 injections are a scary thought for both yourself and Al, you'll find in good time things will settle, until then i understand the frustration and worry and 3-4 injections a day could be a long way off, your team will guide you, i hope there as good as mine are.
As for carb counting unless your on a basal bolus regime i can't see the true benefits unless your reducing carbs per mealtime, which effectively could deprive Al of the nutrients he needs as a growing boy.
Feel free to ask anything, i'm here for you, take care
Suzi x

 

[ally5555]

hi there

lowering the carbs may be fine but I think it would be good to get it checked over - a snapshot analysis of adults diets on here has highlighted the need to look at microntrients . Go and talk to the dietitian and tell her honestly what you want to do. But dont think of kids in the same way as adults their needs are very different - it may be difficult to get enough energy from a low carb diet as kids have different tastes.

another probelm for kids is that if you exclude every food that their friends eat then you are realiy in danger of making them feel more different. Parents often need more support than the kids- it is tough but it sounds like you are doing a great job. Meeting other parents is also useful - and you would if you go on one of the courses - face to face is so much better!

Kids on here who are carb counting seem to be doing very well - I still see some of the kids I used to carb count with (pre dafne) and they sre still carb counting and are very well indeed.

 

[Al's Dad]

Hello all,

As new users of this site, we have to say the we have been amazed by the various responses to our post. We want to thank everybody for giving us your time and thoughts very much appreciated.

We will be calling on your generosity very soon I no doubt!

Thanks again

Al's Dad

 

[Trinkwasser]

Might be worth checking out Dsolve where Katharine wrote the How To's

http://www.dsolve.com/

also

http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/

disclaimer: not a Type 1 and now have no children so this is information passed on from others and not tested personally