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<blockquote data-quote="Lupf" data-source="post: 2554253" data-attributes="member: 518059"><p>yes, you are very clear, which makes it easy to argue.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Your statement "the "benefits" of statins use seem to be either non existent or exceedingly few" does not hold. Most of the critics of statins point to the many problems of statins, as you and others have pointed out in this thread. While for many T2 diabetics the benefits of statins seem to be small or even negligible, for people who have a high risk of heart disease, maybe even had a heart attack, a reduction of this risk by 30% could be relevant. There are enough problems with statins, but I haven't seen critics arguing that it has no use at all.</p><p></p><p>Your second statement "I also disagree with the dubious "science" behind the "fat clogs your arteries" and "high LDL is causal of heart disease" because so far as I am aware neither is proven." is a pivotal scientific question as one of the rationale for LCHF diets is that fat is good for you. This is the area where medical scientists are currently hotly debating. It would help if medical establishment and policy makers would look more at the new evidence without previous bias. As far as I am aware, the Ancel Keys study that fat is causing heart attacks, could never be corroberated and not for lack of trying. Today there is unfortunately no consensus yet but I agree with your assessment of the evidence that "fat does NOT clog arteries" and would predict that at some point in the future, this will become universally accepted. I haven't read enough to convince myself on the consequence of high LDL, but would not be surprised, if it turns out to be correct as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lupf, post: 2554253, member: 518059"] yes, you are very clear, which makes it easy to argue.;) Your statement "the "benefits" of statins use seem to be either non existent or exceedingly few" does not hold. Most of the critics of statins point to the many problems of statins, as you and others have pointed out in this thread. While for many T2 diabetics the benefits of statins seem to be small or even negligible, for people who have a high risk of heart disease, maybe even had a heart attack, a reduction of this risk by 30% could be relevant. There are enough problems with statins, but I haven't seen critics arguing that it has no use at all. Your second statement "I also disagree with the dubious "science" behind the "fat clogs your arteries" and "high LDL is causal of heart disease" because so far as I am aware neither is proven." is a pivotal scientific question as one of the rationale for LCHF diets is that fat is good for you. This is the area where medical scientists are currently hotly debating. It would help if medical establishment and policy makers would look more at the new evidence without previous bias. As far as I am aware, the Ancel Keys study that fat is causing heart attacks, could never be corroberated and not for lack of trying. Today there is unfortunately no consensus yet but I agree with your assessment of the evidence that "fat does NOT clog arteries" and would predict that at some point in the future, this will become universally accepted. I haven't read enough to convince myself on the consequence of high LDL, but would not be surprised, if it turns out to be correct as well. [/QUOTE]
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